Cats: playing vs scrapping?

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

We adopted two cats who are 2yrs old who were supposed to be a bonded pair, one big neutered male 5.6kg and one small spayed female 2.5kg (guesstimate) and they have started scrapping I think, but I'm not sure what's normal as our old cats never fought in the 20+ years we had them.

In the last couple of days he has pinned her down and then will sort of lunge bites at her but I don't think he's actually biting her, but I don't think she's happy about it - they sort of shout at each other like cats do then it's over fairly quick. They're not scrapping over anything in particular, it's not resource guarding, I think he's just doing it because he can and where he's bigger than her she can't do much back.

They play independently, eat together and have laid together a few times, especially when no-one is home and we come back to them sharing the sofa, but don't tend to groom each other so far, they have only been here 1.5 weeks. They are going outside freely and have toys and the whole house to access so I don't think it's boredom or they're forced to be on top of each other.

Thoughts on a postcard?

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Both my current cats are mixes of purebred cat breeds which have been developed to enjoy living with both humans, and other cats, and I can really tell that they truly enjoy not being the only cat in my home. Sometimes they sleep mostly separately for hours, or even days, but other times they puzzle themselves together like a Yin and Yang shape in a chair, or in one of the baskets in one of my/their cat trees etc. Periodically they groom each other, and most days they play together at least once per day.

And occasionally one of them lunges themselves at the other one, trying to pin the other one down, whilst trying to practise their Make killing bites on your prey-skills. It looks really mean, bullying, rude, very unfriendly, serious, and overall, everything except playful. In my eyes. But it never actually seems to lead to any hard feelings between them.
In the beginning it was only Fröjdis (she's about 1 year older than Essy) who did it against Essy. It took some months, but now it's just as often Essy who does it against Fröjdis.

I've also had other cats previously to these two. Some who also enjoyed living together, some who just tolerated living together, and regardless if they liked or just tolerated living together, some of them did do this to each other, at least when they were younger and more bothered about their hunting skills, and some of them didn't do it (as far as I can remember).

The only other thing I can think of would perhaps be to question whether he perhaps was recently castrated (as in, is it possible that it's a part of him feeling amorous)?
Either way, as long as you don't see her starting to trying to always make sure to keep herself out of his way because of it, which could indicate that he is genuinely trying to bully her, or see that she fails to be successful with objecting against it because he's bigger than her, it might just be one of those things which looks worse to us than what it actually is to them. Maybe just try to throw/bounce some cat toys around as distraction when you see it, to give him something else to do.
Do you have a Feliway diffuser? If you don't, perhaps get one (https://www.feliway.co.uk/pages/feliway-optimum), and see if that makes any difference.

 

[ycbm]

I had a brother and sister pair who were together from birth to 11 years. They largely ignored each other and there would be the occasional chases and a bit of scrapping that looked almost like play. Either one would start it. We thought they were happy with the situation.

Then we had the male PTS last December, and the change in his sister has been little short of astonishing. It's clear now that she has always wanted to be an only cat and have us to ourselves.

I don't know how that helps you really, except to say that don't assume they have to stay together, they could both be happier if one was rehomed. It's early days yet, they may settle.

By "outside" do you mean free roaming? It's very early to allow them to do that, I think you would risk them straying if you don't keep them locked in at least for 3 weeks from the start.
.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

@ycbm 's reply reminded me about that I forgot to ask, "bonded pair"? As in Brother and sister? Or as in Their previous owner bought first one, and then the other, and they've lived together since? Or perhaps as in They come from a rescue who only rehome cats in pairs of 2, so if a single cat comes in to them, they bond them with another cat before rehoming?
I don't know if the later type of rescue exists in your country, but I came across one such rescue here in Sweden when I looked for a new cat after Cilla the Moggy died in Spring 2023. Maybe they just worded it badly, but it sounded less like true bonding, and more like someone at the rescue came up with the idea Always make sure they don't leave us with only 1 cat, when we can make them leave with 2.

Anyhow, I've heard about studies showing that Moggies who are related to each other are more likely to enjoy/accept living together, but as ycbm's reply shows, it can still mean that they like it even more to live alone.
But if you've only had them for 1,5 week, perhaps he's more aggressive due to having moved, perhaps she'll get more assertive once she's lived with you for a bit longer. Who knows. Give them some more time.

Besides, even if they're not so much bonded without more tolerate living together, life is about compromises. It suits me better to be the owner of multiple cats, so I try to get cats which likes living with other cats, but either way, my cats have to put up with not living as single cats. In return I provide them with a home with 6 standing cat trees (1 is floor to ceiling, a 141 cm, a 130 cm, a 85 cm, a 66 cm, and a 51 cm one), and one former cat tree where the longest scratching post is now lying horizontally some centimeters above the floor between what used to be the bottom plate, and a cat house (not sure that description makes any sense, it used to be a floor to ceiling cat tree, my dad needed to move it, broke it, and when lying broken on the floor, it turned out our cats loved their "new" horizontal cat tree, so I detached the longest post, 86 cm, from the bottom of the cat house, drilled a hole in the side of the cat house, attached the post there instead, and removed the rest of the cat tree which had been above the cat house).
They also have 2 cat tunnels (actually 3 but none of my cats have really used the black fluffy tunnel), one part of an old sofa is now standing up leaning against a bookshelf so they can use it to climb up to/down from the top of said bookshelf (they can also walk over on the wardrobes next to the bookshelf, and jump from there to the 141 cm cat tree), they have lots of toys, I have wild bird feeders outside two windows so that they'll have something to look at etc.

Besides providing enrichment, the above also gives my cats places where they can climb up on if they want to try to get away from each other, and besides the cat house already mentioned, they also have e.g. another cat house supposed to look like a piece of cheese, which gives them another option where they can sleep safely, protected against sneak attacks from behind

Perhaps you already have your own versions of escape/safe places for your cats. Then I can only go back to once again suggesting trying a Feliway diffuser, and giving them some more time.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Thank you both, they are brother and sister from consecutive litters we are told and lived together before they ended up in the rescue.
I don't think the play is nasty, I think it's more that he's big and tough and she isn't so much, I think giving it more time is the best plan for now.
She was a bit wary of where he was last night when he was playing with her, but today she seems unfussed by him, they're currently laying on two different sofas.

Yes, it is early to let them out but they were both manically scratching at the cat flap all night for the first week and throwing themselves at the back door trying to get out, so we got them leads and harness' for a couple days and let them out supervised and both have been going out since sunday by themselves and seem to be fine, happier for it. We put some used litter out there as that's supposed to help them smell where to head back to but actually they havem't yet roamed over the fence at all.

 

[Ratface]

About eight years ago, my son got two kittens, one male, one female, now both neutered. They have fought on a daily basis, from day one. They have individual names but are known in the family as The Battling Cats. If they are put in separate rooms they scream and scratch the doors and walls until they are reunited. The children keep a respectful distance from them. If they need to go to the vets for vaccinations, they have to have a blanket thrown over them and a joint effort made to get them into separate cat carriers. Vets then don gauntlets to deal with the little treasures.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I have two sisters from the same litter. One of them likes the quiet life, the other needs company.

I've used the Feliway 'best friends' calmer which helped for the first 6 to 9 months but doesn't seem to have the same effect anymore. (i have changed the bottle )

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'll have a look at a Feliway for sure then! Thank you

 

[Xmasha]

Bob and Bert where brothers and lived together for 15 years . They would take chunks of fur out of each other and then 5 mins later be curled up together . The scraps they had were a bit to watch. But they definitely cared for each other . When Bob passed we half expected Bert to pass quickly. He clearly missed his brother , but carried on for a few months . He passed away last week . Don’t think he really got over losing his little brother