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As stated above - totally not true!
caverchon?
- Thread starter hihosilver
- Start date
As stated above - totally not true!
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
not all rescues are traumatised with issues. Sometimes they come from a home where the owner has passed away....and otherwise much loved and well trained. Of course you can buy whatever dog you want, no one is saying that you can't. But people here are trying to inform you.
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
complete BS!
Cavvies aren't brilliant for health due to issues with heart etc, but I've groomed many cavvies in to OAP status which was beyond 6-10.
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Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I think you are being a bit harsh on the OP. Not everyone wants to rescue, puppies are nice to have, and if she wants a cross breed why shouldn't she? I would say please go for health tested litters but apart from that positive advice might be nicer than slating.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think the problem is that there is likely very few health tested litters out there, because when producing cross breeds people feel they don't have to. I am surprised that the OP has found a health tested litter so quickly.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
I think the OP might have been told they were health checked rather than health tested, I see it all the time on adverts so it would be an easy mistake to make.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
That was my concern DG, I have nothing against crossbreeds, I think some of the mixes likely make fab family dogs 
. But, I do think all puppies should come from parents who have had all of the relevant health checks for their breed.
. But, I do think all puppies should come from parents who have had all of the relevant health checks for their breed.Baileybones
Well-Known Member
Personally I'd like to see everyone who breeds charged a minimum of £500 per bitch per year and I'd like it be be law that the parents and litter are health tested. If they had to ensure their litter was worth more than the outlay perhaps less poor litters would be born.
And frankly anyone who wants to buy a puppy instead of rehoming one in rescue should be made to visit a rescue full of animals desperately needing homes!
There are litters of puppies of all breeds being born into rescues that need homes without encouraging more people to breed by putting money into their hands.
And frankly anyone who wants to buy a puppy instead of rehoming one in rescue should be made to visit a rescue full of animals desperately needing homes!
There are litters of puppies of all breeds being born into rescues that need homes without encouraging more people to breed by putting money into their hands.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Trouble is if everyone decent stopped breeding there would only be 'useless' dogs bred. If responsible horse breeding stopped there would still be a glut of poorly put together coloured cob foals on the market. If people stopped breeding and only rescue dogs would allowed there would only be staffies etc available. (Not saying staffies are useless but they aren't everyones cup of tea, diversity of availability is good).
GeeGeeboy
Well-Known Member
Also to consider- Bichon coats are very high maintenance to keep so anything with Bichon in it will require professional grooming every 4-6 weeks at a cost of around £30-£50 depending where you are in the country. They will also need daily brushing from the owner, something that many people find hard to commit to.
hihosilver
Well-Known Member
No they have been health checked and I am picking up a girl in 3 weeks time! My daughter and I fell in love with her and am calling her Cariad welsh for my darling we are both so excited!
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
Health checked is what you don't want - Both parent shoulds have been health tested for Degenerative Myelopathy and have a BVA eye test certificates ( from a specialist) as well as the CKCS parent at least being tested for Episodic Falling Syndrome, Chiari Malformation/Syringomyelia ( needs an MRI & not unknown in bichons) & mitral valve dysplasia as well as checking for patella luxation & entropion.
A good breeder will have tested the parents and have certificates to show you. A well bred purebred is the best chance of a healthy, predictable, dog. BTW I have had dogs brought in to me that were purchased as cavachons that were the size of Basset Hounds.
A money, money , money breeder will lie & say crosses are healthy - not true and such a shame when a child is involved and gets a pet that has health problems.
Please look though this forum & read the thread on Lisa Walsh, dog breeder Norwich.
But your money, your choice and don't blame the puppy farmer when you KNOWINGLEY buy from one.
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
Health checking is what you do when you have a new puppy - the vet checks over the eyes, ears, listens with a stethoscope. That's all well and good, but it's not the whole picture.
Health TESTING is what is done PRIOR to mating of the parents. For example, PRA in poodles - having proof that the parents are PRA clear. Or hip dysplasia in larger breeds, or elbow dysplasia for that matter.
Health TESTING is what is done PRIOR to mating of the parents. For example, PRA in poodles - having proof that the parents are PRA clear. Or hip dysplasia in larger breeds, or elbow dysplasia for that matter.
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
I understand your sentiment here, but I find this a really strange comment.
Okay, why the arbitrary figure of £500? and who would that go to? And don't you think that would just get passed on to the buyer in the end? And certainly what would happen is that the people who breed legitimately would get whacked with this charge but the BYB's would somehow avoid the charge - so how would this be policed? Many many good breeders of quality litters do so not for the money, but for the betterment of the breed, and are doing the health checks and are placing the puppies in to good homes with all the care in the world. And yet it's the bybers that are raking in the cash for what amounts to hiring out a bitches uterus.
And making someone visit a shelter? Maybe everyone who's ever bought a dog has already gone down that route. I have issues with rescues and shelters - but for the reasons you think. And oddly, in my breed I support and volunteer for a rescue.
What needs to happen is the BYBing and people just in it for the money = rather than those who are trying to make a better next generation.
hihosilver
Well-Known Member
I have been to shelters but its not for me. The puppies have certificates and I saw both parents. The breeders were recommended to me and I am confident that I am buying a healthy puppy that will be my daughters first dog. I am not naïve I have done my homework and I have made my decision thanks for all your advice at the end of the day it my choice.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Good luck with the pup, and don't forget the photos!!
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Good luck with your puppy, get it insured which I would advise anyone to do regardless of where they bought their puppy. Just out of interest what certificates does the puppy come with?
hihosilver
Well-Known Member
Thank you MVD and one for the eyes. Both parents have been health Tested as well x
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
Puppies cannot have a certificate for MDV - that is what parents & grandparents should have. The puppy litter test at 6-8 weeks isn;t appropriate for teh conditions these breeds get.
Did you see certificates?
This is worth reading;-
http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/breeding/breeding/buying.html
My first Bichon, 30 years ago , developed glaucoma which is rarely seen in show strains since testing became available. I see several pet bred ones with glaucoma each year.
Did you see certificates?
This is worth reading;-
http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/breeding/breeding/buying.html
My first Bichon, 30 years ago , developed glaucoma which is rarely seen in show strains since testing became available. I see several pet bred ones with glaucoma each year.
hihosilver
Well-Known Member
No I haven't seen the certificates will get them when I pick her up in 2 weeks!
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
Colouredwelsh
Well-Known Member
Don't you see the flaw in this plan then?
Oh dear. Me thinks not!!!! As I said earlier. Screams niaivity. Sorry OP. I hope your puppy is fit and well and all you'd wish for but please do not mistake health tests for health checks which are 2 very different things.
I think you are possibly hoping you might teach a few of us to suck eggs!!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
For everything that s4sugar listed?
Also pleased don't think people are being pedantic, they are just trying to save you and your daughter heartache as well as not lining the pockets of people not breeding responsibly. I for one would not acquire a pup from rescue with similar breeding (and a few other breed variations) because I would want to know its' genetic history.
RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
Current debate aside, I actually think that is a really unfair comment. I picked up a health tested pedigree puppy before Christmas, it took me months to find what I was looking for and I am very please with her. I didn't want to go through rescue because I wanted her for a job, I wanted something without any previous issues and a clean bill of health - that might be very selfish but the answer to everyone's problems doesn't always sit in a rescue centre. If I was going to get another terrier I would, 110% go to a rescue and find just what I was looking for, but that isn't always the case, and I don't think people should be berated for that.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
A silly and unfair comment, I agree.
Baileybones
Well-Known Member
Well I'm happy you're happy buying puppies. We'll never agree I'm afraid so I'll bow out now.
Perhaps if you had to deal with puppies living in stressful kennel situations because they've been dumped, or had to call round rescue after rescue begging for spaces they just don't have, or worse be there at the end with a dog that no one wants you'd begin to understand why buying puppies doesn't sit right with me.
My point is its too easy to pretend the thousands of dogs,puppies included, needing homes don't exist and go and buy a designer or pedigree puppy.
PucciNPoni
Well-Known Member
Basically what we've learned from this thread is that the OP posted it not because she really wanted honest opinions, but just wanted someone to say "ooooh, a puppy - oh yes they're fab please post pictures when you get it". But what she got was "errr, here's what you should look out for" and that was all completely ignored.
And of course it got the "rescue is the only way" brigade in force too.
And I wondered why I stopped coming on to forums.
And of course it got the "rescue is the only way" brigade in force too.
And I wondered why I stopped coming on to forums.
WelshD
Well-Known Member
Have to agree, the OP went from asking for thoughts to having done all the research and reserving a puppy just a couple of days later
FWIW OP Yes I do think £600 is an awful lot for a crossbreed
Although I can see the thinking behind the suggestion that there should be some sort of charge per bitch per year I would have to say that those who breed litter after litter, don't health test parents, don't get puppies checked or first injections done, don't send a puppy off with basic insurance/dog food pack etc are the most likely to be able to afford £500 but quite probably the least likely to pay it. The reputable breeders doing things by the book with limits on litters etc and who make smaller profit margins per litter (some would argue no profit) would be the most likely to pay it
As for rescuing, perhaps some centres need to stop demanding the perfect home and understand that a loving home may not always be 100% in line with their ideals. We have been refused so many times in the past we now just buy our animals
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything but the last paragraph, if you could see some of the imbeciles that try to adopt a dog then you can see why some rescues are so fussy. Before I started fostering I too thought rescues were overly fussy, I agree there are the odd few who have unrealistic expectations and rules, people have to work and not all people that apply are retired and living on a small holding. Most rescues are happy for the dogs to be left on their own in a home for 4 hours before getting let out or taking for a walk. To expect a dog to go 8/9 hours during the day without a wee break is simply not fair and people will argue well they go all night without a wee break so why not during the day, my answer is well so do I but I go to the loo a few times during the day how about you. Then there is fencing, Ive done a few homechecks and some peoples ideas of fencing is not mine, big holes wide enough for an elephant to get through, no garden gates etc. Then the children, seeing a child drag the family cat around does not instil confidence in me when the parents dont seem to notice or choose to ignore.
Rescues do need to rehome to make room for the very next dog and most of them apply common sense rules to protect the dog,you and your children, if some rescues are very strict try another, breed rescues always seem to apply common sense and will work with you for the good of the dog and you. As with all things shop around.