CB Stud Book Poll

[Rollin]

Second attempt!!

The Cleveland Bay is on the RBST critical list with only 30 pure bred foals registered each year, down from approx 75 per annum.

There are however a number of quality part-breds, many of which are registered in other stud books. Should CBHS have a part-bred stud book?

 

[Maesfen]

Well done on the perseverance to get it right!

Surely, for such a small stud book it would be easily possible for them to have a part-bred section too, it's only logical? I don't know what format the stud book is in, is it a bound copy that you can read at your leisure or is it online where you can look up the breeding you're interested in? Either way, it won't take much more effort for them to produce a part bred section where one parent should be a full CB.
I personally feel they should be ashamed of themselves for not doing this already if they are so upset at the decline of CBs otherwise the breed is seriously close to eliminating itself by inaction of the committee faced with the task of improving numbers. Part breds are better than nothing IMO.

 

[Rollin]

Well done on the perseverance to get it right!

Surely, for such a small stud book it would be easily possible for them to have a part-bred section too, it's only logical? I don't know what format the stud book is in, is it a bound copy that you can read at your leisure or is it online where you can look up the breeding you're interested in? Either way, it won't take much more effort for them to produce a part bred section where one parent should be a full CB.
I personally feel they should be ashamed of themselves for not doing this already if they are so upset at the decline of CBs otherwise the breed is seriously close to eliminating itself by inaction of the committee faced with the task of improving numbers. Part breds are better than nothing IMO.

Thanks Pat. Finally one post up there is a poll. Please vote.

 

[Trish C]

Anything to raise awareness of the breed. Make the partbreds an 'official' presence and it may draw more attention to the plight of the pure breds.

I for one would be devastated if the breed died out, I absolutely adore them and seriously miss the ones I've owned. Would love to own another one some day (when I finally give up on this ginger gobs**te )

 

[Rollin]

Our part-breds are hugely successful Baydale Venus, Champion Small Hack at HOYS, Natterjack Toad, Spring Pascall (Hann stud book but 50% CB) top performing horse on Junior Dressage Team in Germany and Denmark and another part-bred on its way to HOYS this year. (The CB dam by the way suffered grass sickness and was nursed round the clock by her loving owners)

 

[bumblelion]

Part breds are better than nothing IMO.

^^^^this!^^^^^^

 

[Rollin]

Thank you all of you who are taking part. There is quite a lively debate on the CBHS open forum also.

As you all know I am quite passionate about the Cleveland Bay and really want to see it survive and thrive.

 

[ThePony]

Yes!

The CB is (obv!) a really wonderful breed with many attributes that make it excellent for part as well as full breds. Those looking for a lighter comp horse may well be after a more blood horse, so by only running a full bred studbook you remove the option of a quality 1/2 bred stallion to be used in these cases - so I feel often owners will simply look elsewhere. It isn't like there is a lack of competition!

I also feel it would help raise the profile of the CB as a comp horse aswell as a full bred show horse breed. People are after quality all rounders and top comp horses - the part bred CB should be right up there for these types of horses because they can be truly talented, classy horses.

One of the major problems with a breed in decline is the lack of blood lines - running a part bred book would open up the breed to being improved by other breeds too. Some top CB stallions aren't what they ought to be, but are kept entire as there are so few CBs. If there was a part bred book, then there would be more stallion and mare options, more to chose from means that a potential customer has more choice - which can only improve horse quality that comes under CB breeding.

There need to be more high performing part breds that are made much of, and available for stud duties - not only to improve comp horse breeding with CB playing an important part, but to raise the profile of the full bred too.

The CBHS need to wake up and react to the tragic decline of this wonderful breed rather than just bemoaning it - they are there to keep the breed alive, yet seem to manage to fail. Why is beyond me when the CB is such a wonderful animal. The more pertinent question might be, why would you not run a part bred studbook? I'm afraid I don't know of an answer to that question!

 

[ThePony]

P.S.
Now I have voted, the post lets me see the results of the poll. I wonder if those who have voted 'no' would give their reasons? I would be really interested to know why and improve my knowledge. I utterly love the CB, but I am not a breeder and don't have breeding info so if I am missing something that affects this decision then I would love to know!

 

[Lobelia_Overhill]

Second attempt!!

Well done!

I had a bash myself and couldn't get the poll part to work!

 

[Zuzan]

............... Those looking for a lighter comp horse may well be after a more blood horse, so by only running a full bred studbook you remove the option of a quality 1/2 bred stallion to be used in these cases - so I feel often owners will simply look elsewhere. It isn't like there is a lack of competition! ....

I think there are some part bred stallions out there ... they are recognised to a certain extent in the stud book currently.

........................
One of the major problems with a breed in decline is the lack of blood lines - running a part bred book would open up the breed to being improved by other breeds too. Some top CB stallions aren't what they ought to be, but are kept entire as there are so few CBs. If there was a part bred book, then there would be more stallion and mare options, more to chose from means that a potential customer has more choice - which can only improve horse quality that comes under CB breeding. ...........

There is a risk to this opening up of the stud book in that pures breds become fewer and fewer.. I believe the Selle Francais stud book has just started accepting CBs as the CB stud book is closed.. It would be a shame to undo this..

The Byerely Turk book by Jeremy James.. (great book) interestingly Jeremy Jame's research points to a breed that is most definately not arab quite a bit bigger.. more substance (able to carry Ottoman armoured cavalery) and still fast.. looking at the horses armour for the face the length of the mask bit (forget the correct term) was way way too big for an arab.. and some of the other traits / characteristics sound remarkably "familiar". The Byerley Turk stood in Co Durham and as no fee was charged for his services there are no records of which mares he covered.. but I bet my bottom dollar the Byerley Turk is as important to the modern CB as he was to the TB.

MTA I can trace my part bred's CB family tree back to another Turk horse.. as quite a few came back after the various battles with the ottoman empire ..

........ The more pertinent question might be, why would you not run a part bred studbook? I'm afraid I don't know of an answer to that question!

Completely agree but real care must be in the continued promotion and breeding of pure CBs.

 

[ThePony]

Absolutly agree that a stud book for part breds must never undermine the breeding of pure breds. That must always take priority with the aim to maintain and grow the population and polularity of the full bred CB whilst keeping the absolute top quality horses breeding.

As much as I adore the CB, a full bred isn't the best breed for every owner - a part bred book would help with this. Look at the Irish draught as a brilliant sucess of both the pure bred and part bred. It would be great to see the small number of part bred stallions extended - and see a premium system put in place for both part bred stallions and mares.

That is facinating that you can trace the history back so far - I shall be having a better look at the passport today and seeing what I can find!

 

[Rollin]

I am not suggesting the part-bred stud book should be instead of the pure bred stud book. As well as.

I am the only breeder of pure bred CB's in mainland Europe, from Portugal to Russsia, from Greece to Scandinavia there are no CB's, just my little French stud.

Yet if you look at the back pedigrees of International SJ be they Holstein, Oldenburg, Hannoverian or EVEN SF (in the days it was a French demi-sang) you will find Cleveland Bay stallions.

Our ancestors understood the value of

strength
stamina
lovely action without too much elevation
temperament which is why it is such a good cross with a hot blooded horse.

I own five pure bred CB's and a Shagya Arab x CB filly. I also own one of only three Shagya stallions to be approved for the French Shagya Stud book this year.

I will continue to breed both 'pure' and produce some 'selected crossed' of the two. Currently I am obliged to put my ShGxCB in the AES stud book.