CC on horses feet

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robynandTilly

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Please can i have some CC on my horse feet. shes a Tb 12yo currently competing although she was shod on wednesday and started randomly tripping and showing 4-5 strides of lameness and then coming back completly sound tripped maybe 3 times in a 40 min schooling session but on displayed the lameness once, tripped twice in a 20 min lungeing session displayed the lameness once since then has been left in the field. I took these pics today and the farrier is coming back tomorrow to investigate as this has never happened before wednesday, the flare that is shown on her foot is going to be treated with two clip shoes on the front when next shod in 5 weeks. currently toying with the idea of BF whoever worried she may end up worse off.

Any advice/ opinions greatly welcome

http://www.flickr.com/photos/87061620@N06/
 
Her feet look just like my TB,s when he was shod, he also stumbled and navicular was diagnosed!
We tried remedial shoeing but this only helped short term so I decided to go barefoot, not an easy choice, lots of time in boots and pads and diet change but now after six months he is much better and no longer stumbles!
 
If she ends up worse off without shoes on put them back on. It' s very difficult to cause any permanent damage by taking off the shoes.

You might do well to have a look at low carb/high fibre diets on barefoot threads first. Six weeks on a good diet (if you need to change it at all) with yeast, magnesium oxide and a good mineral balance can make the transition much easier.
 
Thank you for your replies. I am seriously considering going down the barefoot route and although i know it is not the easy option i would like to giev it ago. I have no idea were to start though front example how to ask the farrier to trim etc and also my farrier isnt keen on me taking her shoes off :( quite stuck really. im finding it hard to understand these barefoot diets if anyone can tell me the brands to look at it would be easier for example - spillers - horse and pony nuts - that sort of thing because i never no what has to much sugar and starch in.
 
I'm sorry to say that what you describe is classic early stage Navicular symptoms. Double clip shoes is the start of the slippery slope, the use them so they can bring back the toe once the shoe is fitted by rasping it. It works.....for a while.....
 
Is it best to just go to the vets and ask for a lameness work up and xrays then. i am insured so its not problem the only reason i havent gone straight to the vets is when my last horse went lame but only every 4th stride the vet found it hard to diagnose (but did eventually) and obviously mine is currently sound hacking and only tripping in the school. With you saying the double clips are a slippery slop would u be able to suggest a better alternative ?? i am not knowledgable about bad feet to be honest all my previous horses have never been lame or had any shoeing or foot issues then i seem to of ended up with two in the last 2 years however the first one was the ddft
 
They're quite similar to my TB's feet. I went barefoot with mine too, but not quick enough to prevent an avalanche of lameness issues :(. It's been a long, difficult battle, but I think I can now see light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck with yours, whatever you decide.
 
Her feet, as you say are "flared" but you're working on that. Her heels are low and her toes long but this will take time to correct.

I would, however, recommend you get her looked at by the vet, I thought my tb had navicular (short, choppy stride, intermittant lameness, stumbling now and then) but after a full work up, nerve blocks annd x.rays, it turned out to be bone spavins in both hocks.

I would suggest that you find out the problem before you decide to go barefoot.
 
Thank u for your reply been doing some research and bone spavins in the hocks have cropped up a few times. The farrier is out tonight to look at her feet as he shod her last wednesday and the stumbling occured on friday if no joys i will be ringing the vets tomorrow. thanks again for everyones comments and views
 
Just to add, barefoot isn't just about the feet, it's about the whole horse. The legs are attached to the feet, and the way the feet land and move will affect the legs above them. That's why barefoot can be helpful not only for ailments of the feet, but also other things such as spavins or soft tissue damage higher up the leg.
 
Does your horse normally stand with the right fore forward like that ? It might just be the angle but there apepars to be some swelling at the back of the pastern between fetlock and heel. Could well mean annular ligament trouble/suspensory branch.

I agree with Tammytoo..before confusing matters by pulling off shoes, get your vet out to observe your horse in its normal state of soundness.

Oh and if barefoot doesnt suit, try Cyteks BUT make sure you get a GOOD Cytek specialist as, like any shoeing system, there are some farriers who say they can shoe with Cyteks and fit them too far back or worse still, like a Natural Balance shoe.

Have a look at my TBs feet. Brace yourself as this is what happened to his feet in less than a couple of months of my previous farrier trying to keep him "sound". Shame I wasnt able to see what was going wrong inside those hoof casts earlier... but you can see the extra support the Cyteks have given him in one shoeing.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151120027387211.454208.802137210&type=3&l=f9c0d6c908
 
Most vets now have mobile X rays and it isnt too expensive to get them done of the hooves - this will perhaps be illuminating as it would show if anything is going on with the navicular area.

If there is a navicular type problem, it may well be caused by the shoes (the unnatural loading and angle shoeing creates means the navicular becomes part of the weight bearing structure which is is completely not designed to do) and should improve a massive amount if the horse can be transitioned to no shoes even if they need boots, since the navicular can never be in the correct position and correctly supported while the shoes stay on.

Once the shoes are off, the cushion area at the back of the hoof can develop and plump up, the frog can start to take weight not just the shod rim of the hoof and things will start to improve.

It could be something else of course, but the X rays would rule in or out that aspect, whereas the stuff that might be causing it further up the legs tend to be a more long winded process of elimination with nerve blocks etc so I would be tempted to x ray first to see.
 
mrussell said:
Does your horse normally stand with the right fore forward like that ? It might just be the angle but there apepars to be some swelling at the back of the pastern between fetlock and heel. Could well mean annular ligament trouble/suspensory branch.

I agree with Tammytoo..before confusing matters by pulling off shoes, get your vet out to observe your horse in its normal state of soundness.

Oh and if barefoot doesnt suit, try Cyteks BUT make sure you get a GOOD Cytek specialist as, like any shoeing system, there are some farriers who say they can shoe with Cyteks and fit them too far back or worse still, like a Natural Balance shoe.

Have a look at my TBs feet. Brace yourself as this is what happened to his feet in less than a couple of months of my previous farrier trying to keep him "sound". Shame I wasnt able to see what was going wrong inside those hoof casts earlier... but you can see the extra support the Cyteks have given him in one shoeing.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151120027387211.454208.802137210&type=3&l=f9c0d6c908
Click to expand...

mrussell, do you have any rads to go with those photo's by any chance? It would be fascinating to see an update in a few months time. Are you making any dietary changes to address the flare (eta: aside from the supplement)?

Sorry for the 20 questions :o, it's not everyday you see feet like that, though :eek:.
 
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She stands like that to eat but if stood tied up etc she stands up square. mrussel thats awful poor u :( i have insurance so no problems with xrays nerve blocks etc she will get what she needs ots just working out what that is :(
 
TwoStroke said:
mrussell, do you have any rads to go with those photo's by any chance? It would be fascinating to see an update in a few months time. Are you making any dietary changes to address the flare (eta: aside from the supplement)?

Sorry for the 20 questions :o, it's not everyday you see feet like that, though :eek:.
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No, we never needed rads as the horse was never lame (you would just never believe it). I was just gobsmacked to see his hinds when the casts came off. The farrier blamed a)white feet and b)the wet summer for the rotting off of the hoof wall. He wasnt happy to let me take photos but it helped give me the strength to sack him after 9 years of loyal custom.

Every month we asked him to bring the toes back on the front and bring some glue on shoes for his hinds to try and get shot of the casts but he didnt take kindly to being "told" what to do.

Still, we are now on the long road back and hes walking out happily in the paddocks after a few days of struggling with his bare feet.

We changed from Simple Systems to Chestnut Horse Feeds, added Science Supplements 4feet, pure pigs gelatin and increased his brewers yeast.

The orange you can see in the more recent shots is Iodine.
 
robynandTilly said:
She stands like that to eat but if stood tied up etc she stands up square. mrussel thats awful poor u :( i have insurance so no problems with xrays nerve blocks etc she will get what she needs ots just working out what that is :(
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ah, I see !!

Good Luck hun. Tripping can sometimes mean that they are trying to avoid standing on the heel area (hence it being a symptom of Navicular). Definately get your vet to have a look first. it might just be a festering corn but worth a full check up xx
 
mrussell said:
No, we never needed rads as the horse was never lame (you would just never believe it). I was just gobsmacked to see his hinds when the casts came off. The farrier blamed a)white feet and b)the wet summer for the rotting off of the hoof wall. He wasnt happy to let me take photos but it helped give me the strength to sack him after 9 years of loyal custom.

Every month we asked him to bring the toes back on the front and bring some glue on shoes for his hinds to try and get shot of the casts but he didnt take kindly to being "told" what to do.

Still, we are now on the long road back and hes walking out happily in the paddocks after a few days of struggling with his bare feet.

We changed from Simple Systems to Chestnut Horse Feeds, added Science Supplements 4feet, pure pigs gelatin and increased his brewers yeast.

The orange you can see in the more recent shots is Iodine.
Click to expand...

Ah, the old white foot spiel :rolleyes:. Looks like you're well shot of him!

The length of the feet when they came out of the casts, was that all excess hoof wall? I can see the feet in the cyteks look a lot shorter - was there false sole to take off, or did the farrier go into the live sole? Trying to gauge where the internal structures are at. It'll be fascinating to see if those underrun heels will come back.

Do tell me to sod off if you don't want to discuss it ;).
 
TwoStroke said:
Ah, the old white foot spiel :rolleyes:. Looks like you're well shot of him!

The length of the feet when they came out of the casts, was that all excess hoof wall? I can see the feet in the cyteks look a lot shorter - was there false sole to take off, or did the farrier go into the live sole? Trying to gauge where the internal structures are at. It'll be fascinating to see if those underrun heels will come back.

Do tell me to sod off if you don't want to discuss it ;).
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Quite a bit of false sole on hinds, the heels on the back feet are completely folded under. Front feet werent "too" bad apart from having long toe and no support under heels. He didnt have to take too much toe off when fitting the Cyteks (contrary to popular belief that the toe gets butchered).

The hind feet literally have no sides to them, just a toe. Will take some more pictures when I get chance to show the current hind trim which he has tried to do conservatively given the state and soreness once the casts came off. He said the soles were suprisingly hard and the quality of new horn coming down is good. Fingers crossed.

Happy to discuss...have got over the shame and blame feeling now. Just hope other people can learn from my experience. Just because an expert tells you its as good as it gets, doesnt necessarily mean that it is..
 
mrussell said:
Quite a bit of false sole on hinds, the heels on the back feet are completely folded under. Front feet werent "too" bad apart from having long toe and no support under heels. He didnt have to take too much toe off when fitting the Cyteks (contrary to popular belief that the toe gets butchered).

The hind feet literally have no sides to them, just a toe. Will take some more pictures when I get chance to show the current hind trim which he has tried to do conservatively given the state and soreness once the casts came off. He said the soles were suprisingly hard and the quality of new horn coming down is good. Fingers crossed.

Happy to discuss...have got over the shame and blame feeling now. Just hope other people can learn from my experience. Just because an expert tells you its as good as it gets, doesnt necessarily mean that it is..
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I know the shame and blame feeling, as the state of my TB's feet were what finally gave me a reality check about hooves. But we all do what we think is best with the knowledge we have at the time.

More photos would be fantastic if you don't mind. I've seen casts used on newly transitioned barefoot horses and they seemed to work well, so seeing the possible risks of using them is very enlightening - thanks for posting.

Good luck with him, I really hope it works out for you.
 
R&T it sounds like you're learning a lot through this thread eh?

My advice would be to find yourself a good barefoot trimmer in your area. You need someone to assess the horse and its environment to advise on diet as well as guide you through transition. To do this you need to know the horse as well as what makes feet healthy.

Spending money on Xrays and further diagnosis would be a waste at this stage, as whatever the vets find, they're likely to recommend remedial shoeing of one sort or another plus some joint injections which are all the wrong answer to this problem IMO.

With a youngish horse such as this, correct foot shape, function and diet should be all it needs to return it to soundness

Good luck.
 
Twostroke, album updated last night with some current shots.

R&T... as you can see from the new pictures Ive put on, the angle of the foot and support has been improved in just one shoeing.

I really do suggest xrays for your horse though, if anything it gives you a clearer picture of what you are startin with. Changing his feet and letting him get on with it wont be of any use if he has damaged a tendon. Infact turning him out might be the worst thing to do. Please, if he is lame, let the vet check him out before doing anything to his feet.
 
She is getting booked in today for a full lameness work up and xrays nerve blocks etc. to me and YO she is trotting sound however i have read somewere that this could be because she is bilaterally lame but we wont know until the vet looks. thanks again for all your advice fingers crossed for a good result :)
 
Mrussel... They do look brilliant now i just couldnt believe how much of the hoof seemed to be ripped away :0 looks like your heading in the right direction now though :)
 
Diet Diet Diet: hi fibre lo sugars with minerals and vitamins plus micronised linseed meal. This diet is good for hooves, skin and joints whether barefoot or not.
There is no bagged feeds easily available from your feed store, and from an education point of view it is best to start with the basic elements required for a healthy horse, bagged feeds tend to be processed and have added molasses among other things.
A good basic feed is Allen and Page Fast Fibre.
500gm [pet scoop] of Fast Fibre
100gms micronised linseed meal [Equimins 10kg bags]
Equimins Hoof builder or Laminator ........ email them for advice.
Teaspoon salt
I also feed Dengie non molassed lo alfo Chaff for variety and taste, and oats for performance.
Buy First Feet from amazon or others, it is packed with new information you will need to know, particularly if your farrier and your vet query your ideas, it is your horse and it is up to you to make sure you do the best for her.
If you look on Rockley Farm you will see many horses who have been sent there for re-habilitation, and it works for them. It is not easy to re-habilitate at home, but I am sure it can be done.
If you decide to go barefoot after a couple of months on the feed, you may have to use hoof boots if you want to continue to ride on stoney tracks, but if you can ride [or walk in hand] on tarmac, the hooves will wear naturally, and need very little trimming.
If your mare is being shod every six weeks, and has good hoof growth, they should already be a good shape.
 
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Thanks for that!

The left hind looks better than the right, doesn't it? I'd guess that right hind probably has a negative palmar angle, but the left looks a bit more supportive. The main problem looks to be those underrun heels. The frog and digital cushion don't look too bad though; I'd have thought they will recover well if you can get those heels back.

Are you planning on cyteks/shoes for the hinds or leaving them bare?
 
Just to update farriers just been and had a poke theres a big bruise on her toe which he thinks may of caused the lameness and we looke d in the school to find a couple of culprits (large sharp stones) so fingers crossed that should be that sorted however we have discussed barefoot and he thinks it wil be a gd idea to rest her feet from shoes especially over the winter :)
 
robynandTilly said:
Just to update farriers just been and had a poke theres a big bruise on her toe which he thinks may of caused the lameness and we looke d in the school to find a couple of culprits (large sharp stones) so fingers crossed that should be that sorted however we have discussed barefoot and he thinks it wil be a gd idea to rest her feet from shoes especially over the winter :)
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AH thats fab !! Fingers crossed she makes a full recovery xx

Two Stroke, hoof wall to weak to take nails at present so will be barefoot for next 2 shoeings (if he cant cope as he is walking on the bulbs of his heels at the mo) and then will go in Cyteks as he is an eventer and will be team chasing through the winter.
 
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