CDJ withdrawn from paris

Burnttoast said:
Is that Andrew Gould leading the way there for British dressage?
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30K views · 278 reactions | Abreiten Dressur - Impressionen CHIO Aachen vom 06.07.2025. Ein Urteil mag sich natürlich jeder selber bilden. Mein Empfinden dazu: Nachdem mir diese Bilder zugespielt wurden, war ich persönlich sehr betroffen und trau

Abreiten Dressur - Impressionen CHIO Aachen vom 06.07.2025. Ein Urteil mag sich natürlich jeder selber bilden. Mein Empfinden dazu: Nachdem mir diese Bilder zugespielt wurden, war ich persönlich...
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I saw him a few years ago at a British Dressage show- I think an area championship. He was obviously riding for someone as the owner was making it very clear to everyone that she was the owner. There was nowhere to warm up outside the warm up arena. He came straight in, on a fairly short rein, and did a few circuits in walk and then went into trot. The horse was so overbent I'm surprised it could see where it was going. The owner was telling everyone how much better the horse had been going since he'd been riding it. I think he was placed - although the horse wasn't quite so overbent but was still well behind the vertical.
 
Chianti said:
I saw him a few years ago at a British Dressage show- I think an area championship. He was obviously riding for someone as the owner was making it very clear to everyone that she was the owner. There was nowhere to warm up outside the warm up arena. He came straight in, on a fairly short rein, and did a few circuits in walk and then went into trot. The horse was so overbent I'm surprised it could see where it was going. The owner was telling everyone how much better the horse had been going since he'd been riding it. I think he was placed - although the horse wasn't quite so overbent but was still well behind the vertical.
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It seems so obvious that poor training / riding is being rewarded by upper level judges, despite it going against the guidelines. Therefore this style of riding / horse abuse will continue, and will be copied and perpetuated.

How on earth can the cycle be broken? It should be simple - FEI and BD ensure that all judges folllow the guidelines at all times, and all stewards enforce the guidelines in the warm up.

Surely there must be nearly as much money to made in correct and sypathetic riding and training, even if it does take slightly longer to produce horses this way, and they might not look quite so flashy.
 
Burnttoast said:
I would love to see the FEI take a zero tolerance approach but when the results of that type of training are so prevalent at the top level they'd soon have no one left. Even Ingrid K seems to have succumbed. Recent video clips show work that looks a lot less than classical :(
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I haven't caught up with all of the comments, but, I remember seeing pictures of the Spanish Riding School and Podh???. There didn't seem to be anything like today's dressage
 
Cragrat said:
It seems so obvious that poor training / riding is being rewarded by upper level judges, despite it going against the guidelines. Therefore this style of riding / horse abuse will continue, and will be copied and perpetuated.

How on earth can the cycle be broken? It should be simple - FEI and BD ensure that all judges folllow the guidelines at all times, and all stewards enforce the guidelines in the warm up.

Surely there must be nearly as much money to made in correct and sypathetic riding and training, even if it does take slightly longer to produce horses this way, and they might not look quite so flashy.
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Well it wasn't rewarded and Eurodressage was pretty scathing.

'The next horse to enter the arena was another alumnus from the Gal/Minderhoud barn: Tatiana Skillman's Indigro (by Negro x Jazz), ridden by Brit Andrew Gould. The black is very talented in piaffe and passage but very much hand ridden and strong in the contact. More self carriage and lightness would open doors to another level.'
 
anguscat said:
So maybe they should be older ie 8yos are too young for GP.
No matter the ability of the rider I would not like a horse of mine doing GP at 8.
I would like to see BYEH scrapped too.
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Why BYEH isn't a problem.... it's a proven pathway for Olympic horses and it's not even onerous for a horse jumping just 90/1m. Doing one dr test which is especially for young horses and jumping 7 jumps isn't tricky nor does it put them under pressure.

4yo BE classes were scrapped as a waste of time. So nothing now for 4yo apart from BYEH as it should be.
 
There's a heavy focus here on the worst offenders (which, as LEC points out, didn't receive the highest scores (thankfully)). I'm really disappointed in the photos of Andrew Gould and Indigro, they are horrendous. We know Helgstrand is an abuser and should have had a far worse punishment...the fact that his company was also a sponsor at Aachen shows how rotten dressage can be as a business.

However - I loved watching Zonik Plus, the winner of the GPS and Freestyle at Aachen. He's young and it wasn't perfect - there is no such thing in dressage - but the picture was harmonious, he was mostly out to the bridle and the rider was a pleasure to watch. What did others think?
 
j1ffy said:
There's a heavy focus here on the worst offenders (which, as LEC points out, didn't receive the highest scores (thankfully)). I'm really disappointed in the photos of Andrew Gould and Indigro, they are horrendous. We know Helgstrand is an abuser and should have had a far worse punishment...the fact that his company was also a sponsor at Aachen shows how rotten dressage can be as a business.

However - I loved watching Zonik Plus, the winner of the GPS and Freestyle at Aachen. He's young and it wasn't perfect - there is no such thing in dressage - but the picture was harmonious, he was mostly out to the bridle and the rider was a pleasure to watch. What did others think?
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The frame and movement was generally pretty and correct, but there was a whole lot of tail swishing throughout and the mouth was often unsettled, occasionally gaping. The horse is obviously talented but all the conflict behaviour did make me wonder whether the test was asking a bit much in terms of difficulty, especially given that he's only 9.
 
j1ffy said:
There's a heavy focus here on the worst offenders (which, as LEC points out, didn't receive the highest scores (thankfully)). I'm really disappointed in the photos of Andrew Gould and Indigro, they are horrendous. We know Helgstrand is an abuser and should have had a far worse punishment...the fact that his company was also a sponsor at Aachen shows how rotten dressage can be as a business.

However - I loved watching Zonik Plus, the winner of the GPS and Freestyle at Aachen. He's young and it wasn't perfect - there is no such thing in dressage - but the picture was harmonious, he was mostly out to the bridle and the rider was a pleasure to watch. What did others think?
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I thought it was pleasing in some parts but these days I watch mouths mostly and his was just as busy as many other horses'. It seems very common now for horses showing at this level to have the lips permanently drawn back from the incisors so there's a distinct gap and the teeth/oral mucosa are visible even when the teeth are together - whether that's physical or mental discomfort or both I'm not sure. There was some gaping. I know I always sound quite militant about this stuff but if we can't put horses being comfortable in their mouths, bodies and minds ahead of a flashy pi/pa tour why are we doing this?
 
LEC said:
Why BYEH isn't a problem.... it's a proven pathway for Olympic horses and it's not even onerous for a horse jumping just 90/1m. Doing one dr test which is especially for young horses and jumping 7 jumps isn't tricky nor does it put them under pressure.

4yo BE classes were scrapped as a waste of time. So nothing now for 4yo apart from BYEH as it should be.
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I am not persuaded. I would not like a 4yo of mine doing one.
Long ago I had a horse do well in a few classes. I’ve reflected and learnt more. I’d not repeat that.
 
j1ffy said:
There's a heavy focus here on the worst offenders (which, as LEC points out, didn't receive the highest scores (thankfully)). I'm really disappointed in the photos of Andrew Gould and Indigro, they are horrendous. We know Helgstrand is an abuser and should have had a far worse punishment...the fact that his company was also a sponsor at Aachen shows how rotten dressage can be as a business.

However - I loved watching Zonik Plus, the winner of the GPS and Freestyle at Aachen. He's young and it wasn't perfect - there is no such thing in dressage - but the picture was harmonious, he was mostly out to the bridle and the rider was a pleasure to watch. What did others think?
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I posted about him earlier , I loved his test, not perfect but didn’t cringe watching it, he rode him very sympathetically and I also saw him warm up and he did movements then stopped and patted him each time , at last a European horse that doesn’t look like he is being forced , so refreshing and the marks rewarded him as they should
 
That is atrocious. I believe that spurs or full bridles should not be banned. Maybe riders should pass a test to use them and be fined or banned for that misuse.
 
www.horseandhound.co.uk

Andreas Helgstrand returns to Danish team after suspension

Andreas Helgstrand rejoins Denmark’s dressage team for the 2025 European Dressage Championships after serving suspensions linked to horse welfare.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Helgstrand not just back from suspension but he is now on the Danish team for Euros 2025.

Disgusting. He should have been banned for life.

I hope there are plenty of cameras on him both in the warmup and in the arena.

I don't want to see dressage banned as in its original form it is the training of the horse with lightness and harmony. I just want those who are plainly abusers to be banned for life. Once a few of the 'stars' are banned then others might mend their ways (assuming that the judging also is changed).
 
reynold said:
www.horseandhound.co.uk

Andreas Helgstrand returns to Danish team after suspension

Andreas Helgstrand rejoins Denmark’s dressage team for the 2025 European Dressage Championships after serving suspensions linked to horse welfare.
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

Helgstrand not just back from suspension but he is now on the Danish team for Euros 2025.

Disgusting. He should have been banned for life.

I hope there are plenty of cameras on him both in the warmup and in the arena.

I don't want to see dressage banned as in its original form it is the training of the horse with lightness and harmony. I just want those who are plainly abusers to be banned for life. Once a few of the 'stars' are banned then others might mend their ways (assuming that the judging also is changed).
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So disappointed to see Denmark welcoming him back onto the team.
 
I just came across this. Presumably similar timing to the first blue tongue photos. We are a decade on and the equestrian bodies have made zero progress towards better welfare. In fact they have ignored, obfuscated and drawn a veil over at every opportunity. Complaints and evidence just vanish into the black hole of the FEI's welfare department. I'm inclined to think of them as organisations for professional horse torturers.

https://www.facebook.com/eponatv/posts/pfbid02ZDCLY1BY9a6C7H3vXKjpPJMCLJE1jEua8mDF5yCyFU9uRMkzBwaTbaVhdogcmsLul
 
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