Challenge! tripping on fronts - at my wits end!

[jael]

Hi all - I will try to keep this brief whilst trying to paint a picture and hope the knowledge on here can steer me a little, as this boy seems to have stumped both vets and farriers. Have had horses for 35 years, now at 57 years I acquired a 9 yo 14:1 cob this year - little tank of a boy and strong as an ox. He had been a stud and driving stallion, gelded 2 years ago. On the lazy side but willing and kind temperament, very connected to me. Can bumps into things (eyesight fine) has poor co-ordination only when he is not concentrating, strips and stumbles, goes close behind at times - other times wide. Very intelligent and picks things up immediately when mentally engaged and understands words from the ground. Totally on the forehand - but I would expect that at his early stage of training. Started him on the ground with poles, trec type stuff and going up and down banks and hills, which he struggled with at first but got better with. He was started correctly under saddle with tuition and two competent riders and he seemed to enjoy being ridden once he got going. He went onto his knees in Summer with me during a saddle fitting (stirrups were too long and it unbalanced him) and I took a fall. Not lame - can float across the field in the most beautiful trot and really steps out. Back and SIJ are fine. He has upright pasterns, excellent feet but contracted frogs. Passes flexion tests, weak on tail pull so 38 X-rays of poll, cervical, pasterns, hocks, fetlocks, feet, pasterns showed navicular changes to near fore and slight changes to off fore probably from his driving days - and that was all. Wobblers was ruled out at this stage. Bute trial made little difference to the way he goes as he does not seem to be in any pain. He was barefoot and trimmed very well with short toes and has plenty of heel. Under vet advice (he is insured) front shoes went on this week with pads for frog support and for 2 days it was fine. I had intended to re-start him today but noticed that he looked all wrong on the fronts - walking turned slightly outwards and seemed clumsier. It does not help that they are in 24/7 at present due to the rain and although I am getting him out to walk and exercise twice a day, it's not the same as turnout where he plays and moves around more. I can understand that his muscle proprioception will have changed with raised pads and he may be feeling a bit stiff with standing in, but part of me just wants to get the shoes off and find another way - the pads feel like overkill to me. Our farrier is good and explained from the outset that remedial shoeing can be trial and error to get the right balance at first. Some are saying ride him through it (he has knee boots) and with correct schooling he will come off his forehand. Worth mentioning that even if he ends up as a field ornament/pet he will stay with me for the rest of his life as he is my buddy, but I want to do right by him and he does seem rideable, if I can take the risk to me of him going down again. I would seek a pro rider but it is not fair to expect them to take the risk if I am doubtful. Grateful for any advice....x

 

[Littlewills]

I'd test for PSSM. Hes the right type and showing a lot of the symptoms, esp as joint issues have been ruled out.

 

[jael]

I'd test for PSSM. Hes the right type and showing a lot of the symptoms, esp as joint issues have been ruled out.

Thanks - I had wondered about PSSM. Hopefully I can pull hairs from his tail as he is hogged!

 

[Orangehorse]

Why did the vet want to put shoes on?

I had a horse that was a chronic tripper, in fact I had nearly decided to stop riding him, he was about 5. After "everybody" had looked at him I happened to find a newly qualified oesteopath who got him sorted, it stemmed from his back end not stepping through correctly. Took about 3 treatments. But this was after he had been seen by physios, etc. but this chap was the first person to really look and analyse what was going on. He still tends to drag his front along rather than power from behind, but he is 22 now.

If you rule out anything medical, then I would guess it is because he is a driving horse, put a rider on top and he is out of balance.
You could try some ground work over poles (Linda Tellington-Jones) - like the Trec maze - to make him more aware of where he is putting his feet. My physio suggested putting curb chains around his back fetlocks when exercising which would make him more aware of his hind legs.

In the last couple of years my horse did catch his toe a couple of times, so I put knee boots on him, and he hasn't tripped once! I wonder if this is having the same effect of making him "aware" of what his front legs are doing.

 

[sbloom]

I've been impressed with The Equine Documentalist, might be worth getting a second opinion on the feet from him, he does it remotely, as do Progressive Equine Services in Oz. I would consider xrays for remedial shoring then its not trial and error.

 

[jael]

Hi - thanks for all your replies. I will look at the Equine Documentalist. That's interesting Orangehorse that it came from the hind as I was surprised that his hind x-rays showed nothing untoward. When I raise his tail he wags it from side to side and to me that is relevant. He overtracks in walk, but I think that is more because he is very short coupled. 38 x-rays of poll, neck, legs and feet and only mild navicular in one fore showed. The vets tend to pad and shoe for navicular as a matter of course, but it has made no difference - in fact he is clumsier. I do lots of liberty pole and obstacle work with him and he trips more without a rider, but only when he is mentally disengaged. He does tend to go toe first. The PSSM results will be in next week and I am going to find a good osteopath to further assess, so will update.

 

[Orangehorse]

Landing toe first? Isn't that a symptom of navicular and pain at the back of the hoof.

Mine wasn't over tracking, he wasn't using his back end correctly, was dragging himself forward from the front, and still has a tendancy to do that. But he is a very long horse, long neck and long back.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Landing toe first? Isn't that a symptom of navicular and pain at the back of the hoof.

Mine wasn't over tracking, he wasn't using his back end correctly, was dragging himself forward from the front, and still has a tendancy to do that. But he is a very long horse, long neck and long back.

Or a simple over Looked thing like Thrush. Not walking heel first due to heel pain therefore tripping

 

[tallyho!]

This was the first symptom of navicular for my boy. 6 months out of shoes and some blooming decent trims to strengthen the back of the foot sorted him out and 10 months later we came third in a county HT barefoot on the hardest summer ground in years.

 

[sbloom]

Yep toe landing is indicative of some kind of heel pain in, I believe, most cases.

 

[jael]

Update: PSSM negative. Never stiff even after being stood in with wet fields. Not lame - only trips when not focusing, less under saddle than in hand. The airs above the ground, floating extended trot and perfectly balanced canter this morning loose schooling makes me think that the navicular is mild. Great feet with good heels so front shoes and pads off next week - back to good old barefoot and back into work after lockdown and I will gauge him from there.

 

[jael]

Update. With schooling, pole and obstacle work he rarely trips now. Sound and barefoot.

 

[tallyho!]

Sounds perfect!! ? yay!

 

[foxy1]

This is really interesting; have you mostly worked him in hand or ridden? How often and how long each session?
So glad he is doing well ?

 

[ycbm]

Update. With schooling, pole and obstacle work he rarely trips now. Sound and barefoot.

You've done a great job, well done.
.

 

[jael]

This is really interesting; have you mostly worked him in hand or ridden? How often and how long each session?
So glad he is doing well ?

I began with 15 to 20 mins a day building up to 40 mins. 5 times a week. He is easier under saddle but I do loose schooling work too to keep variety and walked him up and down banks to help his confidence. He can still trip over a matchstick when inattentive but the biggest factor in his improvement was strengthening his core and using raised poles for proprioception. I had good help from my friend who is a physio.

 

[Mule]

I've been impressed with The Equine Documentalist, might be worth getting a second opinion on the feet from him, he does it remotely, as do Progressive Equine Services in Oz. I would consider xrays for remedial shoring then its not trial and error.

Yes, it's a very good site

 

[meleeka]

A friend had a horse like this. He did have a rather big head and we used to joke that it was the weight of it tipping him forward?

Work cured him, so no ambling along on a loose rein and plenty of poles and hills to keep him keen and taking notice of where his legs were going.

What a great update, well done for persevering ?

 

[jael]

Update on Bailey my 14:1 12 yo coblet: Having owned him for 3 years I think I have finally got to the bottom of his issues! What a long and frustrating road it has been and how much have I learned! He was a clumsy, trippy, shut down boy and difficult to ride and handle. At first I thought he was ataxic but he passed neuro tests. There ended up being 3 issues. Right SIJ old injury - injected and no longer sore. Inflammation in bloods. I did the Equibiome over 6 months and it really helped, but bloods still off. This ended up being down to encysted redworm, which I had wormed twice before with Panacur Guard. After realising a few things about PG, I used 2 x Equest over 13 week intervals and he is now clear. Pastern Dermatitis was treated with pink lotion and a Dectomax injection, 10 days of antibiotic. Finally 2 coffin joint injections in both fronts did the trick and the persistent flare on his hooves disappeared. Bloods all clear except his CK levels were high, indicating muscle damage. I decided against a muscle biopsy for two reasons, they are invasive and can be unreliable unless done to perfection and if he has a myopathy, it's incurable anyway. I instead treated as if he had. I started him on GWF muscle maintenance supplement. Best £32 I've ever spent. He responded within a few days by charging round his field! He is still a lazy bugger in the school but he can really move now and is starting to lift through his core. He will always be a high maintenance little chap, I'll never be rich (!) and we are not going to win a rosette any time soon, but the immense bond he has formed with me and how much more alive and happy he is now, warms my heart. I hope this helps other owners who may be struggling with multiple issues. It took questions, huge amounts of research, patience, a decent set of clippers to remove all the feather that was masking problems, a vet who was very hands on, a physio with a hawk eye and a good farrier. x

 

[ycbm]

Great update, thanks for that.
.

 

[SEL]

Brilliant - well done.

You're not the first person I've come across where odd issues resolve after treating a worm burden.

 

[J&S]

You worked hard there, jael, congratulations.
We took on a pony as a companion who we were told we could ride. she was a great ride but , like yours, very trippy some days and did go down with me. Vet checked, physio, Bowen therapy, a lot of in hand work and finally a rider who really rides her forward and 4 years later, like you no problem. She is chunky body on a narrow base, only plodded along before in a riding school. We have control of her weight now and in the summer she looks like a proper little horse. It really is worth the effort turning them around, isn't it!

 

[Widgeon]

You've done a fantastic job unpicking that lot - well done. I'm so pleased he's happier and you're doing so well together, it's lovely to hear such a good outcome.

 

[jael]

Well, it's us again! How wrong I was in thinking we had got to the bottom of my boy's issues. After yet another downturn and his bloods showing relatively high CK levels, yesterday I boxed him up and took him to a different vet. This is an old-school vet who takes his time and really understands the expressions of a horse. He was positive on the ELISA for Lyme disease and Anaplasmosis. By now this will be chronic and explains just about everything. If only I had known. He had 6 injections into his hips and shoulders of steroid and HA and I came home a bit shell-shocked, to say the least. Looks like a long haul of antibiotics so I am probably going to have to repeat the Equibiome to protect his gut. After the all the medication has been done, my last resort will be vet acupuncture to clear out his meridians. Some tiny (stubborn?!) part of me is determined to get him as well as he can be. He has such a beautiful nature and I really want to see him flourish. Oh, and of course he is off insurance now as they have excluded just about everything! Does anyone here have experience with supplementing/supporting Lyme disease? Thanks for reading.

 

[SEL]

Well, it's us again! How wrong I was in thinking we had got to the bottom of my boy's issues. After yet another downturn and his bloods showing relatively high CK levels, yesterday I boxed him up and took him to a different vet. This is an old-school vet who takes his time and really understands the expressions of a horse. He was positive on the ELISA for Lyme disease and Anaplasmosis. By now this will be chronic and explains just about everything. If only I had known. He had 6 injections into his hips and shoulders of steroid and HA and I came home a bit shell-shocked, to say the least. Looks like a long haul of antibiotics so I am probably going to have to repeat the Equibiome to protect his gut. After the all the medication has been done, my last resort will be vet acupuncture to clear out his meridians. Some tiny (stubborn?!) part of me is determined to get him as well as he can be. He has such a beautiful nature and I really want to see him flourish. Oh, and of course he is off insurance now as they have excluded just about everything! Does anyone here have experience with supplementing/supporting Lyme disease? Thanks for reading.

If you feel like posting that on a UK Facebook page for PSSM then I can tag in a lady I know who has spent a fair few years dealing with Lyme. On the ball vet for spotting it.

If you want to go down the herbal route post antibiotics then Catherine Cooper based in Ireland has a lot of experience. Lyme is tough to manage especially when it's at the chronic stage.

Back when there was just the US PSSM forum it used to get mentioned more often because the symptoms are so similar. Now we have 101 different forums people are getting posted to the new genetic tests and I think some of the basic checks get overlooked. If you want more info on Catherine pm me

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

I've recently had one of mine tested positive for exposure to Lymes. I actually asked the vet to test for it as we are in the New Forest (hotspot for ticks). All other bloods were totally normal.

She was completely flat, dull coat, appetite not as strong, a little footy too.

Went on antibiotics, which wrecked her guts. To the point where I had to stop, even the Profix took it's time to sort her out. I would certainly be feeding something to protect the digestive system alongside them. Brewers yeast is in virtually every gut supplement so would start that asap.

Unfortunately Lymes can damage joints leading to arthritis. It depends how long your boy has been suffering as to potential damage.

Mine seems to be coming out the other side now fortunately. Vet did say that it can re-occur as it can lie dormant hence why it is important to keep up with vaccinations and worming. Any signs of illness to contact them straight away as they may need further antibiotics to avoid another flare up.