Changed diet for feet but now loosing topline, help

islandspirit

islandspirit

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So, after lots of advice on here I've changed my boy from top spec to fast fibre and forage plus performance summer balancer. He also has a mug of micronised linseed, 2 tablespoons of salt( on advice from forage plus) and Alfa a mollasses free. I made the move about 2 weeks ago and haven't seen a difference in his feet as yet but his topline is vanishing! What can I add in for protein and any advice as to what I can use as a chaff without alfalfa just in case this is adding to the hoof flare. I do also have a second question, sorry to be long winded, we had a second lot of blood tests done, about 2 months since the last and had exactly the same results, low red and white cell count. If the reason for the anaemia was copper deficiency, how long would it take normalise now we are on the forage plus balancer. I'm not sure if the low white cell count is a red herring or not. My vet says he's either getting over a virus or just had a lower count because he's older (10). Any advice, as always is gratefully received.
 
You could ask about adding more linseed. My harder keepers which are inclined to lose topline are on 2 mugs. It's a good plant protein as well. My others just get one mug. But ask someone. I'm not a nutritionist.

Terri
 
You could swap the FF for speedibeet and up the linseed. ERS pellets are also BF friendly. Do you need a chaff? It offers little nutritional value and is just a bulk to feed, usually for fatties to hide supplements in. Most will eat their feed without it :)
 
Thanks Equilibrium Ireland, I'm going to give forage plus a call tomorrow but wanted to get some ideas to chat o EF with them first. Ill certainly ask about upping the linseed. Ellie11987, I suppose I'm just being conventional and transferring human ideas about food over to the horse:) just thought the chaff would add a bit of texture:) I will have a look at ERS pellets:)
 
Be absolutely scrupulously honest with yourself. Was it muscle and ligament conditioned top line, or fat?
 
CP makes a really good point there. I went through this "vision" myself. Once they were back working again the muscle was there instead of fat.

Terri
 
Chaff - Halleys Timothy Chop
Protein - Copra/CoolStance
I use speedibeet in winter but swap to Fast Fibre the rest of the year. My horses find FF much more palatable than sb.

Ditto Cptrayes; look at pictures of fit horses and see how they look to compare to yours.
 
Thank you everyone, I understand what you're saying and I do use a critical eye everyday but we have lost muscle on the flanks, neck and wither. He is in good condition, is hacked for 1 and a half hours a day 5 days for the last six weeks and is ready now to go back in the school after a really annoying issue with a brand new saddle that meant time off:( we show in middleweight hunter classes and we are always the thinnest in the class:) I keep thinking we should be in the lightweights but he actually has the right amount of bone for a heavyweight:) granted he doesn't look like a TB but he is a 17.2 IDx but doesn't have any fat pads. This is our first summer together in a way as last year he was on box rest for the whole summer so I am feeling my way a little to get the balance right but he has definately dropped topline and has zero energy:( I'm used to him striding out and now he's 'yay, lets have a trot' and 3 strides later, 'maybe not, I'm a bit tired'. Obviously not quite that dramatic:) and rather weirdly, more spooky than normal??
 
OK sounds like you have a problem there but I'd be surprised if it was related to a good diet for a barefoot horse.


Consider EPSM, possibly? Especialy Especially since you are seeing loss of muscle bulk all over.

I would personally add 500ml of oil and 12000iu of vitamin E to his diet and see how he does.
 
cptrayes said:
OK sounds like you have a problem there but I'd be surprised if it was related to a good diet for a barefoot horse.


Consider EPSM, possibly? Especialy Especially since you are seeing loss of muscle bulk all over.

I would personally add 500ml of oil and 12000iu of vitamin E to his diet and see how he does.
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I don't think it's related to the barefoot diet either :) I am convinced that the diet changes I have made are for the better. It's only a gradual weight/muscle loss so I'm thinking that I haven't got the calorie intake correct yet but was unsure what to add to the fast fibre that was foot friendly.

I actually did speak to a vet last year with reference to EPSM, but was told that it would have been diagnosed years ago if that was the case and a horse will have always had it so unlikely to have developed it at 9. In my defence I do now know that vets are not always right so if the information I have been given is incorrect please put me on the right track :)

I know something is not right as he should be fit with his level of work but he just runs out of steam, when schooling he will just stop going, sort of grinds to a halt. My previous TB would have been fit on a quarter of his workload. I've had him blood tested for tying up and full blood works 2 months ago (everything checked) and the only things out were low red and white cell count which was why I was wondering how long it would take for the red cell count to return to normal if it was just a case of his minerals being unbalanced.

I have him on aloe vera to stimpulate his immune system and have just ordered Egusin just incase he has ulcers which are causing the low cell count although he does not display any particular symptoms of EGUS, or if he does they are very subtle.
 
islandspirit said:
I actually did speak to a vet last year with reference to EPSM, but was told that it would have been diagnosed years ago if that was the case and a horse will have always had it so unlikely to have developed it at 9. In my defence I do now know that vets are not always right so if the information I have been given is incorrect please put me on the right track :)

I know something is not right as he should be fit with his level of work but he just runs out of steam, when schooling he will just stop going, sort of grinds to a halt.
Click to expand...

I belong to an EPSM group lead by Eleanor Kellon who is an expert vet. It simply isn't true that EPSM would 'be diagnosed years ago'. Some horses don't show symptoms until later in life and many do show symptoms but are not diagnosed accurately. My own mare was under 'expert' vet care for years (prior to my ownership) and they never managed to diagnose her accurately and she ended up on a meat wagon for 'behavioural issues'. It took just 3 months to 'fix' her with appropriate diet and exercise and she is now known for being a real sweetie with a lovely nature.

Your horse may not have EPSM but there are other muscle disorders which could be involved. Sometimes it's just a simple shortage of magnesium which can lead to a lot of muscle pain.

It might be worth joining the EPSM group on Yahoo and reading the files there. Interesting even if your horse doesn't have EPSM.
 
Thank you LucyPriory, I did have a feeling that I had been told a load of tosh:) the same vet told me that my horse most likely had fetlock and stifle issues due to effusion there and that a horse that big wasn't designed to last! I promptly left that practice and he was referred to the AHT by my new vet who started from the ground up with his back end, guess what, hocks and stifles completely clean but did have hind PSD in his left leg, a hotspot on his sacro illiac, kissing spines and hotspots in 2 facet joints. All this in a horse who passed a 5 stage vetting only 4 months before and the only symptom was that the saddle was slipping! My vet was as astounded as me when we xrayed his back. He is such a genuine horse and i know something is still not right. i know our forage is low in magnesium so have supplemented it for the last year, i think the forageplus balancer has enough in It that i no longer have to supplement extra. i will have a look at the yahoo group tonight when I'm at home. Sorry for any rubbish spelling and the lower case i's, I'm on my phone sneakily answering from my desk at work!!
 
islandspirit said:
I don't think it's related to the barefoot diet either :) I am convinced that the diet changes I have made are for the better. It's only a gradual weight/muscle loss so I'm thinking that I haven't got the calorie intake correct yet but was unsure what to add to the fast fibre that was foot friendly.

I actually did speak to a vet last year with reference to EPSM, but was told that it would have been diagnosed years ago if that was the case and a horse will have always had it so unlikely to have developed it at 9. In my defence I do now know that vets are not always right so if the information I have been given is incorrect please put me on the right track :)

I know something is not right as he should be fit with his level of work but he just runs out of steam, when schooling he will just stop going, sort of grinds to a halt. My previous TB would have been fit on a quarter of his workload. I've had him blood tested for tying up and full blood works 2 months ago (everything checked) and the only things out were low red and white cell count which was why I was wondering how long it would take for the red cell count to return to normal if it was just a case of his minerals being unbalanced.
Click to expand...


Loads of horses go undiagnosed with EPSM. Tying up is a symptom. So is running out of energy. So is odd spooking. And loss of muscle bulk.

Diagnosis is via muscle biopsy and pretty simple. If you are insured I would have it done, and meanwhile I would feed the high oil/vitamin E diet anyway.
 
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