Channel 4 8.30 tonight

FionaM12 said:
I did think I could never have sat laughing eating my lunch when a frightened horse of mine was being chased round and darted. :( I'd either be trying to stop them or helping for the good of the horse.
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TBH, I'm not sure what he could usefully have done once the RSPCA handlers had upset the horse like that. He probably thought they were numpties. Whether that's fair or not is another matter.

Film-makers have their own agenda and it isn't always fairness and honesty.
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Agreed. Does the RSPCA have footage of their own?
 
Have you seen the link in my post of the pic? That was just one of them. I don't think it matters how much it cost if the horses are safe. The issue of not answering is prob why he went to court. He offered no explanation as to why things were like they were or is compliant in resolving issues. As for a breakdown of time, I really don't think that is relevant either. They spent that time trying to help him change the situ
 
Moomin1 said:
Have you seen the link in my post of the pic?
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Yes, I did - it looks remarkably like the one pictured in the "Could you condition score this horse for me please? ... " thread. :(

Would it be reasonable to assume that Mr. Davies signed the horse over because he recognized that it was thin and that, for whatever reason, he wasn't able to get weight on it?

That was just one of them.
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The worst, one hopes!
 
The difference between making a judgement on this and the one in the other thread is that the facts have been established here whereas nobody knows a thing about the other.
 
I have read a post by a RSPCA inspector, they said that Clewyd was asked to move to the pony to a smaller paddock on its own, something he was capable of doing with no fuss. He refused. The RSPCA had no control of the sedative administered, that was up to the vet present. They also said that the part that the documentary didn't show was the camera crew in pursuit of said pony hence they tried screens to block the view. Since reading more I am horrified by the amount of money going uncontrolled to this guy. Chucking money helps how?
 
No question the horse in that picture is in a bad state. Are there more photos? I'm thinking the RSPCA do have more?

In the name of balance facts an all that this one picture doesn't change my mind all that much, out of the 52 horses he had, how many were in this state? It is quite possible that not every horse thrived but how many? Did he breed this one? How long was it with him? What state was it in when it arrived with him? Just linking one picture and a few quotes doesnt show the full picture either.

The programme invoked compassion in most I think, anger in others and wrightly or wrongly showed the RSPCA in a pretty bad light. I don't want to see suffering in humans or horses (just to add his living conditions were far worse comparatively to the horses) but it DID make a good TV programme. If your 100% correct Moomin1 the programme makers must have some serious issue with the RSPCA or must have fallen in love with Clwyd and Michelle.
 
Rebels said:
I have read a post by a RSPCA inspector, they said that Clewyd was asked to move to the pony to a smaller paddock on its own, something he was capable of doing with no fuss. He refused.
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Maybe he thought it was none of their business or he objected to their being so intrusive on his life and so he wasn't going to help them, misguided as that may be.

They also said that the part that the documentary didn't show was the camera crew in pursuit of said pony hence they tried screens to block the view.
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The camera crew used screens to block the view of them pursuing the pony? Or the RSPCA used screens to block the view? Sorry, neither makes sense to me!

Since reading more I am horrified by the amount of money going uncontrolled to this guy. Chucking money helps how?
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Is the money going to him directly, or through the very sensible Michelle? How would you like to see the situation resolved?
 
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Well I am sure if you ask the rspca they will show you. I have done my bit and considering a court found him guilty on a qualified vets evidence of suffering, not the rspca's, after they spent that many hrs trying to help, I am at a loss as to why people still try and defend him
 
Moomin1 said:
Well I am sure if you ask the rspca they will show you. I have done my bit and considering a court found him guilty on a qualified vets evidence of suffering, not the rspca's, after they spent that many hrs trying to help, I am at a loss as to why people still try and defend him
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I am trying to understand what happened and why. How would you like to see the situation resolved?
 
VOM said:
The programme invoked compassion in most I think, anger in others and wrightly or wrongly showed the RSPCA in a pretty bad light. I don't want to see suffering in humans or horses (just to add his living conditions were far worse comparatively to the horses) but it DID make a good TV programme. If your 100% correct Moomin1 the programme makers must have some serious issue with the RSPCA or must have fallen in love with Clwyd and Michelle.
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I do think most films are made as entertainment and to be sold. They choose a view to present which makes good tv, and work with that.
 
fburton said:
I am trying to understand what happened and why. How would you like to see the situation resolved?
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Sorry fburton, I was mucking out and was too faffy to type from my phone.

I think that the actions taken by the RSPCA were reasonable and the outcome was proportionate to owner's situation and lack of cooperation over the previous year in which officers had spent hour after hour trying to work with him and resolve the situation.

I am confident the situation has been dealt with as effectively as could have been, though sadly, I wonder whether Clwyd will ever change his ways given the nature of hoarding as a mental illness.

So, whether the chapter has ended or another one will begin for the RSPCA and other organisations with regard Clwyd will remain to be seen.:(
 
Interesting reading the new information and seeing a photo provided of one of the horses.

Sounds to me like the RSPCA have carried out actions in the horses favour and eventually the mans... Though he'll probably never realise it.
 
milesjess said:
Interesting reading the new information and seeing a photo provided of one of the horses.

Sounds to me like the RSPCA have carried out actions in the horses favour and eventually the mans... Though he'll probably never realise it.
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On a complete tangent milesjess, can I just say that your horse is absolutely stunning! :)
 
Fburton, so far I have found a site sending money to be held at the local feed store to pay for Clwyds wormers, feeds etc, a site sending money to Michelle, a site sending money to Clwyd directly though that looked distinctly scam like. I would like to know more information about the case. The RSPCA say they spent a lot of time with him, what did that achieve? Did they remove previous animals that were unsaveable? How much did it cost to rehab those that were removed and what was their diagnosis. Why did they take that black colt? Clwyd described them as his pension so how many was he selling beforehand, how much was he making etc. He seemed to have money to buy feed and hay etc. My initial reaction was to help him but now it emerges that he has turned down help before. Getting into that situation is understandable just about but refusing help to get yourself out of it is not. He must be able to see that the situation is not sustainable even just inbreeding wise.
 
As to them being his pension and him selling I am pretty sure he is clued up enough to not have them inbreeding and so reducing the breeding quality. He is a sick man but not a simpleton. I am not sure about the rescue and funds being collected it seems that the bandwagon has been well and truly jumped on and I am also certain that there are many more worthy causes but even if the RSPCA were not making headway they certainly didnt come across well and even the statements made are a bit vague and did not really improve my perception of them. The programme will only have harmed their cause even more that it is already and it really is time they were investigated and their motives checked.
I still think they should have removed Clwyds mares and given him back all the gelded colts then the breeding would cease after this years crop. I also hope by now all those foals are caught handled and prepared for sale or the whole thing about the wild horses is lost
 
windand rain said:
As to them being his pension and him selling I am pretty sure he is clued up enough to not have them inbreeding and so reducing the breeding quality. He is a sick man but not a simpleton. I am not sure about the rescue and funds being collected it seems that the bandwagon has been well and truly jumped on and I am also certain that there are many more worthy causes but even if the RSPCA were not making headway they certainly didnt come across well and even the statements made are a bit vague and did not really improve my perception of them. The programme will only have harmed their cause even more that it is already and it really is time they were investigated and their motives checked.
I still think they should have removed Clwyds mares and given him back all the gelded colts then the breeding would cease after this years crop. I also hope by now all those foals are caught handled and prepared for sale or the whole thing about the wild horses is lost
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But if it's true he has no land, perhaps they should be taken off him? :(
 
windand rain said:
As to them being his pension and him selling I am pretty sure he is clued up enough to not have them inbreeding and so reducing the breeding quality. He is a sick man but not a simpleton. I am not sure about the rescue and funds being collected it seems that the bandwagon has been well and truly jumped on and I am also certain that there are many more worthy causes but even if the RSPCA were not making headway they certainly didnt come across well and even the statements made are a bit vague and did not really improve my perception of them. The programme will only have harmed their cause even more that it is already and it really is time they were investigated and their motives checked.
I still think they should have removed Clwyds mares and given him back all the gelded colts then the breeding would cease after this years crop. I also hope by now all those foals are caught handled and prepared for sale or the whole thing about the wild horses is lost
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Do you not think he would just go and get more?
 
Possibly but he could be given an order to prevent that so he can only keep geldings that way he would still have his horses and the breeding would stop. After all if you can ban him from keeping horse (not done) surely it wouldnt be too hard to ban him from keeping mares.
This whole story smack a bit to me like a certain breeder who was banned for a while I fear he was and always will be a hoarder too
 
windand rain said:
Possibly but he could be given an order to prevent that so he can only keep geldings that way he would still have his horses and the breeding would stop. After all if you can ban him from keeping horse (not done) surely it wouldnt be too hard to ban him from keeping mares.
This whole story smack a bit to me like a certain breeder who was banned for a while I fear he was and always will be a hoarder too
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True, sadly quite often it is a case of once a hoarder always a hoarder. :(
 
A bit worrying the ten TBs that joined Clwyd Davies herd belong to an elderly neighbour convicted and jailed in well known horse cruelty case. Fear there were no heroes or heroines on either side in this story.
 
roanypony said:
A bit worrying the ten TBs that joined Clwyd Davies herd belong to an elderly neighbour convicted and jailed in well known horse cruelty case. Fear there were no heroes or heroines on either side in this story.
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I still fail to see how people can't actually think that it's a good thing that the horses have been removed from a man like this? :confused:
 
Moomin1 said:
I still fail to see how people can't actually think that it's a good thing that the horses have been removed from a man like this? :confused:
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Do you think that it would be better if all the horses were taken away from him, or is it possible, with appropriate (tactful, respectful) supervision and help, that he could continue with a manageable number of non-breeding stock?

Incidentally, do you know the fate of the animal whose picture you linked to? Was it PTS or did it recover? Do you know why it was so thin in comparison to the horses we saw in the documentary?
 
fburton said:
Do you think that it would be better if all the horses were taken away from him, or is it possible, with appropriate (tactful, respectful) supervision and help, that he could continue with a manageable number of non-breeding stock?

Incidentally, do you know the fate of the animal whose picture you linked to? Was it PTS or did it recover? Do you know why it was so thin in comparison to the horses we saw in the documentary?
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That was just ONE horse that was in that condition. The ones in the footage were not those that were thin.

This man had over 200 man hours of help and supervision by the RSPCA prior to having to resort to prosecuting him. I personally think that is more than reasonable, and the line was drawn at the appropriate time.
 
Moomin1 said:
I still fail to see how people can't actually think that it's a good thing that the horses have been removed from a man like this? :confused:
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Removing horses to reduce stock yes, removing horses completley no. I fully believe that hoarding is a metal illness and by removing them all he will find a way of hoarding again, its like asking a drug addict to go cold turkey. He needs help to reduce the numbers which is hard as it did come across like he was in denial about it. But maybe now he has the help of Michelle, which he maybe didn't have in 2009, who he does seem to allow to get close to him this might now start.
 
Moomin1 said:
That was just ONE horse that was in that condition. The ones in the footage were not those that were thin.
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Yes, I know that. Have you any knowledge of the fates of any of the horses signed over, or why they were thin compared to the ones in the footage?

This man had over 200 man hours of help and supervision by the RSPCA prior to having to resort to prosecuting him. I personally think that is more than reasonable, and the line was drawn at the appropriate time.
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How would you like to see the situation go forward, speaking personally?
 
Star_Chaser said:
Nice article in the local papers online, Says Michelle Crowther, chair of the North East Wales Bridleways Association.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/n...e-pensioner-who-hoards-horses-91466-32547091/
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Clwyd, who moved to the run down farm three years ago after being evicted from another farm when the number of his horses got out of control, admits he is depressed.

He said: “I’m loading the bullets to shoot myself.”
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What?! He's not admitting he's depressed! He's talking about how he's funding the organisation that's trying to take away his horses by shopping in the RSPCA charity shop >.< Idiot journalist :p

*grumbles*
 
I watched the programme, and i think what he was doing wasn't cruel.. he feeds them and puts them before himself... he may be a horder but you dont see him hitting/racing/ecttt.

I do not think has done anything wrong as they are living partly wild? they have a field each other, the problem i saw was he might over breed (gielding is proberbly the best solution instead of taking them away as horses are becoming cheap/unwanted in the reseccion (SP)) Yes he didnt worm them but are they wormed in the wild?

Michelle seems like she has her heard screwed on! And makes a good point who is going to want an old mare thats semi wild?? I think they will get on well, and i think they will do well togethor!
xx
 
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