mickey
Well-Known Member
There is a proposal in the news today to apply charges to the weights/quantities of domestic waste a household produces....
Thoughts????
Thoughts????
Charges may be applied to Domestic Waste
- Thread starter mickey
- Start date
icklechlo
Well-Known Member
A good idea, but I personally think they should start getting companies to make more recyclable goods before making us pay to take rubbish away, because if it isn't recyclable, we can't recycle it!
airedale
Well-Known Member
I hope they provide a padlock facility for all wheelie bins so people can stop their neighbours dumping waste in their bin - or even worse - flytipping in the countryside
tbh - load of rubbish
tbh - load of rubbish
mickey
Well-Known Member
I think it is a good idea in principle because I object to some people in society thinking they can 'take' as much as they like and create as much waste as they like, with no direct consequences to themselves, esp given the global warming debate. There are some pretty ignorant people out there.
But, it is going to surely be a nightmare to implement? People may well resort to fly-tipping, burning waste, or raging war against their neighbour by filling up someone else's bin. Logistics/policing are a huge problem.
But, I know people that don't make any attempt to recycle a thing. And they surely cannot be permitted to get away with that totally ignorant attitude forever. It sucks.
But, it is going to surely be a nightmare to implement? People may well resort to fly-tipping, burning waste, or raging war against their neighbour by filling up someone else's bin. Logistics/policing are a huge problem.
But, I know people that don't make any attempt to recycle a thing. And they surely cannot be permitted to get away with that totally ignorant attitude forever. It sucks.
glencoe
Well-Known Member
Our "grey household" bin is collected every two weeks and is rarely even a third full. The "green garden" bin is always full as is the "red recycling" box, which doesn't include plastics. If we lived in Germany we would be getting a refund on our Council tax - heard this on Radio 5 the other day - to reward the small amount of landfill waste. This is the way our councils should be going - encouraging and rewarding recycling but that would mean giving money back. That sucks as well.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
I god, not another tax. Think I'll emigrate as I'm not going to afford to live in this country any more...
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I already have a charge applied to my domestic waste - it is called Council Tax.
I suspect fly tipping is going to be out new national hobby...
I suspect fly tipping is going to be out new national hobby...
mickey
Well-Known Member
The problem is that council tax does not seem to be a big enough deterrent to prevent people creating as much waste as they desire.
The point of a charge that is directly proportional to the waste someone produces is to provide a direct incentive to stop people generating uneccesary waste.....
The point of a charge that is directly proportional to the waste someone produces is to provide a direct incentive to stop people generating uneccesary waste.....
najat
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm..... there is going to be a problem of people dumping rubbish in other people's bins unless lockable bins are provided.
Totally agree that companies need to package everything in recyclable packaging
Totally agree that companies need to package everything in recyclable packaging
Sooty
Well-Known Member
The council tax is not designed to be a deterrent! It is the price we all pay for the council to deal with our rubbish, so we don't return to the unsanitary conditions that used to exist when rubbish was dumped on the streets. A family will produce more waste than one person living on their own. All that will happen is that people will put their domestic waste in with the recycling, or dump it in field gateways, as they do round here.
mickey
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The council tax is not designed to be a deterrent! It is the price we all pay for the council to deal with our rubbish, so we don't return to the unsanitary conditions that used to exist when rubbish was dumped on the streets. A family will produce more waste than one person living on their own. All that will happen is that people will put their domestic waste in with the recycling, or dump it in field gateways, as they do round here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I presume this proposed tax is not 'council tax', it is another tax on top of what would normally be paid for REMOVAL of rubbish. The new tax proposed is not to cover the cost of removing rubbish, but to provide people with an incentive to stop chucking so much out.
It is a very difficult issue, and in an earlier post I stated that I do think it is going to be incredibly difficult to implement in practice. But, the bottom line is, if it doesn't hurt people financially how can you really get people to commit to creating less waste? It's the same with congestion charges - It seems the most powerful way to get people on board with regards to preserving our environment is unfortunately to hit them where it hurts.
The council tax is not designed to be a deterrent! It is the price we all pay for the council to deal with our rubbish, so we don't return to the unsanitary conditions that used to exist when rubbish was dumped on the streets. A family will produce more waste than one person living on their own. All that will happen is that people will put their domestic waste in with the recycling, or dump it in field gateways, as they do round here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I presume this proposed tax is not 'council tax', it is another tax on top of what would normally be paid for REMOVAL of rubbish. The new tax proposed is not to cover the cost of removing rubbish, but to provide people with an incentive to stop chucking so much out.
It is a very difficult issue, and in an earlier post I stated that I do think it is going to be incredibly difficult to implement in practice. But, the bottom line is, if it doesn't hurt people financially how can you really get people to commit to creating less waste? It's the same with congestion charges - It seems the most powerful way to get people on board with regards to preserving our environment is unfortunately to hit them where it hurts.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
That is all very well in theory, but councils and the government tend to go round implementing changes, using dodgy and possibly groundless arguments for justification, without providing any back-up or alternative. Example: Nobody drives during the rush hour unless they have to, probably to get to work. Penalise the drivers by all means, but first give them an alternative. Otherwise, the measures do nothing other than rake in money from people with no alternative. Same as rubbish; as long as councils are picky about what they will and won't take away and what can and can't be recycled, and as long as shops are going to pre-pack everything in several layers, we are going to have waste. What are we supposed to do with it? Someone living in a small top floor flat hasn't room for five different waste containers, and cannot compost their food waste if they don't have a garden!
glencoe
Well-Known Member
I watched the Channel 4 TV programme last night and was amazed at the Belgian set-up. I was living there when Antwerp city council introduced their recycling scheme in 1998. White plastic bag (one only) with household waste one week, green plastic bag for garden stuff the other and monthly paper and can collections. No boxes provided for anything and you could only use the official council bags so had to buy them at the local shop. There was a lot of grumbling mostly from people living in apartments with no garden so fair point - and lots of rubbish bags were stuffed into bins in the park and at tram stops. The Belgians are lovely people but not very obedient so I can see why their government has gone down the cash route!
Their local tax set-up is different from ours and for the amount I pay in council tax, emptying the bins cant take up that much of the budget. If given the choice, our councils will take the punitive cash measures rather than rewarding recycling and not giving any thought whatsoever to individual circumstances such as do you live in a flat or a house with a garden. This situation should be dealt with top down as in the packagers have to change first before the end of the chain us!
Their local tax set-up is different from ours and for the amount I pay in council tax, emptying the bins cant take up that much of the budget. If given the choice, our councils will take the punitive cash measures rather than rewarding recycling and not giving any thought whatsoever to individual circumstances such as do you live in a flat or a house with a garden. This situation should be dealt with top down as in the packagers have to change first before the end of the chain us!
mickey
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That is all very well in theory, but councils and the government tend to go round implementing changes, using dodgy and possibly groundless arguments for justification, without providing any back-up or alternative. Example: Nobody drives during the rush hour unless they have to, probably to get to work. Penalise the drivers by all means, but first give them an alternative. Otherwise, the measures do nothing other than rake in money from people with no alternative. Same as rubbish; as long as councils are picky about what they will and won't take away and what can and can't be recycled, and as long as shops are going to pre-pack everything in several layers, we are going to have waste. What are we supposed to do with it? Someone living in a small top floor flat hasn't room for five different waste containers, and cannot compost their food waste if they don't have a garden!
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree that shops need to clamp down on the amount/type of packaging they use - and sadly, without consumer pressure or again financial penalties this is unlikely to happen across the board.
In my experience it is very simple here to recycle - we have our normal landfill waste bin and our recycle bin - And for those that take the few minutes required to read them, the instructions of what should go where are very simple to follow.
I disagree that people can't cope with working out what goes where - I think that is a lazy excuse. But there IS an alternative for everyone to just hrowing everything into landfill -and that is to be ACTIVELY mindful about what is disposed of and HOW it is disposed of. That is the alternative to having mountains of landfill waste and plenty of waste and pollution. I really don't understand why people think it is so complicated. It's just an excuse not to do it. And if people were already recycling sufficient amounts just maybe there would be no need to implement charges in order to depserately try to get people to take some responsibility for their impact on our environment.
That is all very well in theory, but councils and the government tend to go round implementing changes, using dodgy and possibly groundless arguments for justification, without providing any back-up or alternative. Example: Nobody drives during the rush hour unless they have to, probably to get to work. Penalise the drivers by all means, but first give them an alternative. Otherwise, the measures do nothing other than rake in money from people with no alternative. Same as rubbish; as long as councils are picky about what they will and won't take away and what can and can't be recycled, and as long as shops are going to pre-pack everything in several layers, we are going to have waste. What are we supposed to do with it? Someone living in a small top floor flat hasn't room for five different waste containers, and cannot compost their food waste if they don't have a garden!
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree that shops need to clamp down on the amount/type of packaging they use - and sadly, without consumer pressure or again financial penalties this is unlikely to happen across the board.
In my experience it is very simple here to recycle - we have our normal landfill waste bin and our recycle bin - And for those that take the few minutes required to read them, the instructions of what should go where are very simple to follow.
I disagree that people can't cope with working out what goes where - I think that is a lazy excuse. But there IS an alternative for everyone to just hrowing everything into landfill -and that is to be ACTIVELY mindful about what is disposed of and HOW it is disposed of. That is the alternative to having mountains of landfill waste and plenty of waste and pollution. I really don't understand why people think it is so complicated. It's just an excuse not to do it. And if people were already recycling sufficient amounts just maybe there would be no need to implement charges in order to depserately try to get people to take some responsibility for their impact on our environment.
glencoe
Well-Known Member
Very good post. Our Council have provided easy to understand leaflets and it is not difficult to put the right bin out every week. The ones that do not do it obviously don't notice the two landfill sites in our area that are now above the horizon.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
You must live near me!
We recycle like mad, but I am suspicious that a lot of our 'orange bags' end up in landfill with the black ones...
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Council tax is meant to cover this. I think the whole rubbish affair is terrible. We recycle as much as we can, but this does involve a 24 mile round trip to the recycling depo!! I spoke to the council about this because obviously this uses a heap of petrol (thus not helping the environment.....) and they said "to try to fit it in with going to do the shopping". But this simply isn't always pratical.
I know people locally to me who have been allowed to keep more than 1 black bin for their household whereas most of us only get 1. We have 1 black bin and 1 blue bin, thats it. I know everybody else gets those recycling box things - we dont have one. And the cities also get a weekly gardening rubbish collection whereas us in the country (who have the biggest gardens!) have none.
Oh and the BEST bit!!! You'll laugh at this. Up here in Scotland, apparently a heap of our recycling is taken by trucks all the way down to WALES because apparently its the only place they can dispose of it! Helping the environment?! DUHH. It's a joke.
I know people locally to me who have been allowed to keep more than 1 black bin for their household whereas most of us only get 1. We have 1 black bin and 1 blue bin, thats it. I know everybody else gets those recycling box things - we dont have one. And the cities also get a weekly gardening rubbish collection whereas us in the country (who have the biggest gardens!) have none.
Oh and the BEST bit!!! You'll laugh at this. Up here in Scotland, apparently a heap of our recycling is taken by trucks all the way down to WALES because apparently its the only place they can dispose of it! Helping the environment?! DUHH. It's a joke.
mickey
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Council tax is meant to cover this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Council Tax quite obviously does not cover deterring people from creating landfill waste. It covers collection and other aspects of provision for scoiety (roads/education etc). The whole point of the NEW tax is that it is meant to be a deterrent to stop people creating waste in the first place.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the whole rubbish affair is terrible. We recycle as much as we can, but this does involve a 24 mile round trip to the recycling depo!! I spoke to the council about this because obviously this uses a heap of petrol (thus not helping the environment.....) and they said "to try to fit it in with going to do the shopping". But this simply isn't always pratical.
[/ QUOTE ]
Surely your waste should be being collected by the council? I don't understand why you have to take it to the tip. If it is the case that you have to take it yourself, then you need to put pressure on your county council.
[ QUOTE ]
I know people locally to me who have been allowed to keep more than 1 black bin for their household whereas most of us only get 1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well the new proposals would certainly put a stop to that - By making people accountable for quantities of waste - Unless of course there are several people in the household, in which case it makes sense for them to have a greater proportional amount of space in their bin for landfill which would be larger than that allocated to single occupancy households.
[ QUOTE ]
We have 1 black bin and 1 blue bin, thats it. I know everybody else gets those recycling box things - we dont have one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Phone up your council and ask why. [ QUOTE ]
And the cities also get a weekly gardening rubbish collection whereas us in the country (who have the biggest gardens!) have none.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and the BEST bit!!! You'll laugh at this. Up here in Scotland, apparently a heap of our recycling is taken by trucks all the way down to WALES because apparently its the only place they can dispose of it! Helping the environment?! DUHH. It's a joke.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes that is not a great solution by any means, and again I would be speaking to the CC about the logic (or lack of logic) behind this.
The thing is - Until now we have all become used to using as much resources as we like, thinking of packaging and waste as disposable. But the truth is, this so called 'waste' is part and parcel of the carbon cycle, and thus the resources of this planet, and as such we have a responsibility to do more than throw our hands up in the air and make excuses. Sorry but that is really how I feel about this.
Council tax is meant to cover this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Council Tax quite obviously does not cover deterring people from creating landfill waste. It covers collection and other aspects of provision for scoiety (roads/education etc). The whole point of the NEW tax is that it is meant to be a deterrent to stop people creating waste in the first place.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the whole rubbish affair is terrible. We recycle as much as we can, but this does involve a 24 mile round trip to the recycling depo!! I spoke to the council about this because obviously this uses a heap of petrol (thus not helping the environment.....) and they said "to try to fit it in with going to do the shopping". But this simply isn't always pratical.
[/ QUOTE ]
Surely your waste should be being collected by the council? I don't understand why you have to take it to the tip. If it is the case that you have to take it yourself, then you need to put pressure on your county council.
[ QUOTE ]
I know people locally to me who have been allowed to keep more than 1 black bin for their household whereas most of us only get 1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well the new proposals would certainly put a stop to that - By making people accountable for quantities of waste - Unless of course there are several people in the household, in which case it makes sense for them to have a greater proportional amount of space in their bin for landfill which would be larger than that allocated to single occupancy households.
[ QUOTE ]
We have 1 black bin and 1 blue bin, thats it. I know everybody else gets those recycling box things - we dont have one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Phone up your council and ask why. [ QUOTE ]
And the cities also get a weekly gardening rubbish collection whereas us in the country (who have the biggest gardens!) have none.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and the BEST bit!!! You'll laugh at this. Up here in Scotland, apparently a heap of our recycling is taken by trucks all the way down to WALES because apparently its the only place they can dispose of it! Helping the environment?! DUHH. It's a joke.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes that is not a great solution by any means, and again I would be speaking to the CC about the logic (or lack of logic) behind this.
The thing is - Until now we have all become used to using as much resources as we like, thinking of packaging and waste as disposable. But the truth is, this so called 'waste' is part and parcel of the carbon cycle, and thus the resources of this planet, and as such we have a responsibility to do more than throw our hands up in the air and make excuses. Sorry but that is really how I feel about this.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
We pay thousands of pounds a year in council tax, and all we get is rubbish collection! We have no street lighting at all in our road, the roads are full of holes, our 'village' bobby is now based over ten miles away, our county fire force is being merged with a neighbouring one, I have no children in education and the mobile library has been scrapped. I hardly think expecting our household waste to be dealt with is a lot to ask! And yes, we do recycle, but I am sick to death of people in authority at every level using environmental matters as an excuse to monitor and exploit.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
Me too Sooty.
I pay over £1k a year in council tax and for what exactly? Where's my refund because I've provided a ton of recyclable paper and cardboard YTD?
We already suffer a fair amount of fly tipping round here and to my mind the situation will get a whole lot worse if they add tax onto tax.
Where's all the money going the councils' make from the recycling? My company used to make us put all our cans and card board into collection bins and make a tidy profit out of that waste.
Another thing that irks me, is why do we chuck all our used glass bottles into huge bins where they're smashed to pieces and presumably melted down and remoulded? Why not do what we used to do with Corona bottles? Take them back to the shop and get a 10p rebate. (That's how I used to earn my riding money - collecting drinks bottles from neighbours and earning the 10p's!
They'd be washed out and reused. Surely thousands of pounds less money spent in recycling? Surely this is what the milk companies still do with the empties? Wash and reuse?
Seems weird to me when we're trying to save energy
I pay over £1k a year in council tax and for what exactly? Where's my refund because I've provided a ton of recyclable paper and cardboard YTD?
We already suffer a fair amount of fly tipping round here and to my mind the situation will get a whole lot worse if they add tax onto tax.
Where's all the money going the councils' make from the recycling? My company used to make us put all our cans and card board into collection bins and make a tidy profit out of that waste.
Another thing that irks me, is why do we chuck all our used glass bottles into huge bins where they're smashed to pieces and presumably melted down and remoulded? Why not do what we used to do with Corona bottles? Take them back to the shop and get a 10p rebate. (That's how I used to earn my riding money - collecting drinks bottles from neighbours and earning the 10p's!
They'd be washed out and reused. Surely thousands of pounds less money spent in recycling? Surely this is what the milk companies still do with the empties? Wash and reuse?
Seems weird to me when we're trying to save energy
mickey
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
We pay thousands of pounds a year in council tax, and all we get is rubbish collection! We have no street lighting at all in our road, the roads are full of holes, our 'village' bobby is now based over ten miles away, our county fire force is being merged with a neighbouring one, I have no children in education and the mobile library has been scrapped. I hardly think expecting our household waste to be dealt with is a lot to ask! And yes, we do recycle, but I am sick to death of people in authority at every level using environmental matters as an excuse to monitor and exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Out of interest which party runs your county coucil??
And no, expecting your household waste to be dealt with is not too much to ask - I presume your household waste IS already being dealt with, the same as everywhere else in the country.
The fact remains, this new proposed charge is NOT a charge to deal with waste. It is a charge to deter people from creating non-recyclable waste in the first place, and thinking a bit more about what they use and how they dispose of it. If people cannot do this off their own backs then they have to be financially penalised in some way or they will never change their habits.
People have to take some responsibility for their actions, and if they are too lazy or irresponsible to do this then they will have to be penalised.
We pay thousands of pounds a year in council tax, and all we get is rubbish collection! We have no street lighting at all in our road, the roads are full of holes, our 'village' bobby is now based over ten miles away, our county fire force is being merged with a neighbouring one, I have no children in education and the mobile library has been scrapped. I hardly think expecting our household waste to be dealt with is a lot to ask! And yes, we do recycle, but I am sick to death of people in authority at every level using environmental matters as an excuse to monitor and exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Out of interest which party runs your county coucil??
And no, expecting your household waste to be dealt with is not too much to ask - I presume your household waste IS already being dealt with, the same as everywhere else in the country.
The fact remains, this new proposed charge is NOT a charge to deal with waste. It is a charge to deter people from creating non-recyclable waste in the first place, and thinking a bit more about what they use and how they dispose of it. If people cannot do this off their own backs then they have to be financially penalised in some way or they will never change their habits.
People have to take some responsibility for their actions, and if they are too lazy or irresponsible to do this then they will have to be penalised.
TGM
Well-Known Member
We used to recycle avidly in our household. Every time I went to the village to shop I would take our waste paper, bottles, cans, etc and put them in the recycling bins in the village car park. Then they took the bins away to make space for more cars and there is nowhere nearby to recycle
.
custard
Well-Known Member
We're lucky in Redditch as we've now got wheelie bins for paper/card/tins/glass and proper waste. I always feel kinda smug when the recycle bin is full.
I think councils have got to help people do their bit after all we pay them enough!
I think councils have got to help people do their bit after all we pay them enough!
anniedoherty
Well-Known Member
I agree with Sooty. It is quite easy for me to recycle as I have a large garden so composting is no problem. I have managed to get two blue re-cycling bins from the council for waste paper and tins and I am am happy to store my cardboard and glass until I get a load to take to the re-cycling point which is 8 miles away so I only go when I have a car full or it would be counterproductive.
However, I realise that not everyone is as lucky as me. A lot of elderly people don't have access to cars or, even if they do, may lack the strength to lug all their rubbish to the re-cycling points so for these people and others with physical disabilities there should be free collections of ALL re-cyclable waste. In my area we can't put glass or cardboard into our blue bins even though they are re-cyclable.
It is also imperative that the government put pressure on manufacturers to use only the smallest amount of packaging necessary rather than penalising the end users. Finally, rewards for re-cycling efforts rather than punitive measures should surely be tried first? Fly tipping is enough of a menace in the countryside as it is.
However, I realise that not everyone is as lucky as me. A lot of elderly people don't have access to cars or, even if they do, may lack the strength to lug all their rubbish to the re-cycling points so for these people and others with physical disabilities there should be free collections of ALL re-cyclable waste. In my area we can't put glass or cardboard into our blue bins even though they are re-cyclable.
It is also imperative that the government put pressure on manufacturers to use only the smallest amount of packaging necessary rather than penalising the end users. Finally, rewards for re-cycling efforts rather than punitive measures should surely be tried first? Fly tipping is enough of a menace in the countryside as it is.
mickey
Well-Known Member
I agree that recycling needs to be a joint effort - So it is totally reasonable for you to expect your council to collect recyclable waste rather than you transport it.
Also, as stated in my earlier post, totally agree that pressure should be put on manufacturers to use less waste and of that waste, more biodegradable/recyclable waste.
However, I do think that you will see more of an impact on landfill waste reduction if you penalise people for waste created rather than reward them for being proactive. This is because a proportion of people will insist on carrying on being irresponsible about their waste until they are actually stung. I don't believe that these kinds of people will all be enticed by 'reward' schemes sadly.
Also, as stated in my earlier post, totally agree that pressure should be put on manufacturers to use less waste and of that waste, more biodegradable/recyclable waste.
However, I do think that you will see more of an impact on landfill waste reduction if you penalise people for waste created rather than reward them for being proactive. This is because a proportion of people will insist on carrying on being irresponsible about their waste until they are actually stung. I don't believe that these kinds of people will all be enticed by 'reward' schemes sadly.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
The only reason local councils are thinking of imposing fines is because they have had a landfill tax imposed on them by Westminster, and they are passing the costs on. Just like road charging, the consumer has to bear the costs yet no alternative has been provided. It is robbery.
darksided
Well-Known Member
The weight thing is utterly utterly idiotic and stupid! Surely it should be volume of rubbish rather than the weight that should be an issue?
mickey
Well-Known Member
I presume that weight is used as the amount of carbon (energy) is generally proportional to the weight of material rather than the volume of material. Hence the tax would be applied in proportion to the amount of carbon being taken out of the planet. It does make sense really.
mickey
Well-Known Member
I think we are going to have to disagree on this. The alternatives are there - for the vast majority of people recycling is viable and practical. If they are not there people should try to do something to improve their services rather than just waving their arms in the air and saying 'I can't'.
And if we want to carry on letting people get away with being totally irresponsible then fine - But there will be a consequence to these people's actions in terms of the environment we all share.
And if we want to carry on letting people get away with being totally irresponsible then fine - But there will be a consequence to these people's actions in terms of the environment we all share.
darksided
Well-Known Member
Ahhh I stand corrected lol
I should probably look into these things a lot more before I comment on them.
I do think that fly tipping will increase though.
I should probably look into these things a lot more before I comment on them.
I do think that fly tipping will increase though.