Charging extra to fill up water buckets?!!?

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Spit That Out

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Hi, The YO sent a message round to the whole yard last week saying that if he had to fill any water buckets due to the ice, snow etc he would charge that livery £1.50 regardless of the livery service they are on (DIY, Part or Full)
This is because the YM who normally provides the service needs help on these snowy days to fill up water buckets so the YO jumps in his CAT, loads water containers in to the bucket at the front and drives rounds the yard filling up buckets...the YM has already filled them and loaded them in to the bucket!!
Now don't get me wrong, i understand charging for the service to the DIY liveries but to charge the Part & Full liveries IMO is wrong...Surely filling water regardless of how that is done and by whom should be in with the cost of your livery?
Then he turns the water off (to stop the water pipes from bursting) to all liveries so you can't get your own water!!!
I've bought water containers (so have many others) so i bring mine from home but i'm on DIY so i do this anyway and have done for years when the water is turned off. However I think this new charge is taking the p1ss...What do you guys think?

If you were on Part or Full livery would you pay an extra £1.50 just because the YO has to fill your water to help/instead of the YM?
 
I'd recommend the liveries of whatever type just paid up. I suspect YO, YM and any other staff are all on the verge of a nervous breakdown at the moment from the cold and the seriously hard grind looking after animals in this type of weather is. And they are being perfectly reasonable in turning off the water every night, it does actually mean you stand better chance of running water the next day apart from anything else like preventing burst pipes.

It wouldn't be surprising if in the heat of the moment any livery who complained about it was told to seek accommodation elsewhere...

I'm not saying I agree with what they're doing though.
 
Well does sound a bit over the top. Can all the liveries involved take turns in doing waters for all? Turnng off his water supply without leaving full barrells of water is a no no in my eyes, we have had terrible problems with frozen water pipes, but the yard owner manages to get it going even if it means a hosepipe to fill up barrells from his kitchen taps!! Then we all muck in even taking water up to the fields in 6 gal drums. Oh for a warmer january...
 
Definitely think this is out of order. If people are paying for a service they should get this at the agreed price, however inconvenient it is to provide it. Also agree that if water is being turned off, there should be full water butts left available in case anyone needs it- I know a fire is unlikely in this weather but it can still happen and I shudder to think what would happen without water if it did...
 
Sedgemoor Chaos said:
Hi, The YO sent a message round to the whole yard last week saying that if he had to fill any water buckets due to the ice, snow etc he would charge that livery £1.50 regardless of the livery service they are on (DIY, Part or Full)
This is because the YM who normally provides the service needs help on these snowy days to fill up water buckets so the YO jumps in his CAT, loads water containers in to the bucket at the front and drives rounds the yard filling up buckets...the YM has already filled them and loaded them in to the bucket!!
Now don't get me wrong, i understand charging for the service to the DIY liveries but to charge the Part & Full liveries IMO is wrong...Surely filling water regardless of how that is done and by whom should be in with the cost of your livery?
Then he turns the water off (to stop the water pipes from bursting) to all liveries so you can't get your own water!!!
I've bought water containers (so have many others) so i bring mine from home but i'm on DIY so i do this anyway and have done for years when the water is turned off. However I think this new charge is taking the p1ss...What do you guys think?

If you were on Part or Full livery would you pay an extra £1.50 just because the YO has to fill your water to help/instead of the YM?
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I would say having water avalible was a very basic minimum yes the weather is cold and pipes freeze but that is the yard owners responsibilty to lag and insulate at least one source of water .... they are quick to take rent !!!!
 
All livery owners have a legal duty of care to their clients to provide water for their use and the horses, under no circumstances should this be charged for. I would think the charge is for actually filling the buckets, however this is unjust if the owners are willing to do it themselves.

There are far too many bad livery owners out there at the moment who hold captive audiences of horse owners who just dont have any where else to go.

Occasionaly there are good yards to be found with reasonable qualified people who run them but these are very far a few between, and they certainly dont exist in any quantity in Gloucester thats for sure.
 
Few of our liveries can get to us except by walking up huge hills for at least 2 miles so we have taken over feeding and watering all the horses as part of the deal.
We have even arranged for three livery horses to get haylage delivered from a neighbour incase the owners didn't realise they were about to run out.
Luckily our fields have streams in most but those without we break the ice for them twice daily.
I think probably the YO is under huge pressure to work outside in this weather hence the extra charge he has asked for, it is incredibly hard dealing with water in these temps (it's - 11 here at the moment) and after a few minutes you can feel your bones!
Although it may seem wrong to charge I do understand his reasoning, but also your feeling of we have paid once too.
I would pay up as he is doing his best and his time will be on top of his usual and be damned uncomfortable outside so for once fume silently..
 
I kind of agree with the general opinion really ; No, its not fair but YO maybe pushed to the brink with the demands of the weather, so cut him some slack this time, and pay up. And if, he and the YM are usually good guys, give them a verbal pat on the back to show appreciation for their extra work load.
 
we dont have to pay extra and its a 70 odd your old woman who had a hip replacement less than a year ago in charge, who because i cant get there lunged my horse in chambon twice this week for no extra cost
 
PennyJ said:
I'd recommend the liveries of whatever type just paid up. I suspect YO, YM and any other staff are all on the verge of a nervous breakdown at the moment from the cold and the seriously hard grind looking after animals in this type of weather is. And they are being perfectly reasonable in turning off the water every night, it does actually mean you stand better chance of running water the next day apart from anything else like preventing burst pipes.

It wouldn't be surprising if in the heat of the moment any livery who complained about it was told to seek accommodation elsewhere...

I'm not saying I agree with what they're doing though.
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I agree

Waters are the biggest pain in the arse about the snow/cold weather. It's seriously hard work constantly lugging water around for a whole yard in this weather, i do agree its OTT to charge part/full liveries but honestly, in the snow we spend the entire day filling waters. It takes over everything and obviously is one of the most important things. Its back breaking work and probably the most stressful time of the year for your YO/YM.

I must say I'd probably be thankful someone is making sure my horse has water, I'm sure (sadly) there are plenty of yards that won't bother and will just leave horses without.
 
OMG! I would be giving my notice and moving elsewhere. Provision of water, either in the stable for those on full or part livery, and from a convenient tap or trough for those on DIY, is such an essential, implied term of the contract of livery, that it should always be included in the standard charge (a bit like a bed and a light should be implied into a contract for a hotel room). Unless the livery contract states that extra may be charged under such circumstances - but I wouldn't send my horse to a yard that had such a clause in the first place. Yes it is inconvenient and more work, but thats the nature of the industry. At certain times, there is more work.
 
I agree with the OP, it's taking the pee...if I was paying full livery prices (our yard is £80pw) I would expect my water to be included in that price, regardless of how long or the method it takes the YO/YM. They are taking advantage of people who perhaps can't get to their horses hence why they are on Full Livery.
Carry on taking your own water until they turn the water on again and just don't use that service they are so kindly offering!!!
 
Mithras, with an opinion like that, you have to be a full livery person!!!! Frankly you're being a bit mean. :(

I'd say I was closer to the tough as old boots end of the character spectrum, but I have to say I had a little cry earlier this week, and the root cause of this out of character self pity is the COLD. How cold I am, I can't get warm, it doesn't matter how many or how few layers I have on, I'm always bloody cold and just can't get warm even in bed at night. And all I seem to do all day is lug around large and heavy containers of water to make sure the animals all have water. For the first time ever in my life I have chilblains and believe me, they bloody hurt :( The cold is absolutely stinging on my face, it doesn't matter how much/what sort of moisturiser I put on, it still penetrates through.

Picking out ice from water troughs/containers is no fun at all, ice cuts are far more painful than paper cuts and frostbite is not a bundle of laughs either.

I have to say, that saying of you really should walk a mile in another persons shoes before you criticise what they are doing, is oh so relevant here... This sustained cold period really is taking things to a whole new level and those that are working outside every day really do NEED a bit of encouragement at the moment. I am dreading going back on Wednesday if its still this cold, and how much longer is it going to go on for?

If significant numbers of staff jack it in because of this extreme cold and go back to working indoors (I am seriously considering going back to a "proper" job) then full liveries are going to have a bit of a problem... I can see this happening actually.
 
This is a massive problem at the moment, with pipes freezing, I have 6 containers in the back of my car to fill up waters tomorrow.
I understand from a YM point of veiw when your freezing the last thing you want to be doing is lugging heavy water containers up and down (however there is such a thing as a hose pipe or a wheel barrow which makes the lugging so much lighter!)
It is a YO responsibility to provide water for you I know in my contract I pay for Water, Grazing and a Stable. I don't believe in charging extra for filing up waters I'm sorry to say there are ways and means. Your YO chose to run a livery yard deal with it!

(I am DIY livery)
 
I see your point but don't agree. I am on part livery and there hasnt been a whisper of charging extra for filling up water buckets. Neither has our yard considered charging extra to the grass liveries - and with them they are having to fill up water containers and drive down to the fields! Turning off the water at night - well that makes sense but not for charging for the water. Equally our yard is on top of a hill and it has not stopped any of "our" girls getting there. I appreciate its unpleasant for the staff now but as they keep saying, come the summer they have the last laugh when we are working inside and they are riding in the sun! Mind you we have an extremely nice bunch of "girls" working on our yard so maybe that is what makes the difference...
 
I have to agree with the op, yes i am diy livery, i defrost the taps when i get there first in the morning, i have to lug upto 18 water carriers out to the fields every day as well as all the stabled horses.
I take a hammer and break the ice in the field troughs and then use a childs fishing net to scoop all the ice out (no wet hands) it is hard work but ho hum in the summer it is a darn sight easier.
I think your YO/YM is taking the pee big style
 
Hmmm quite harsh to add a charge however, how many of you expect to be paid overtime if you do extra time at work?

It took me three and a half hours for two days to get water down the yard from the house, on top of the normal day to day duties, even turning all the horses out is taking double the time, quad bike is working overtime (with the cost of petrol at present) and even that froze up after leaving it out for 30 minutes in the snow. Costs are rising faster than your livery bills electricity, gas all gone up everyone knows the hay situation, add on extra petrol, extra hours to pay staff (as most staff are paid hourly), owners not able to get down (fully understandable).

I am really lucky as the liveries fully appreciate the extra workload this weather has made, and muck in and help out over the whole yard, and by the same token if they cant get down their horses are done with no extra charge.
 
scally said:
Hmmm quite harsh to add a charge however, how many of you expect to be paid overtime if you do extra time at work?
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ME! every time the clock ticks over half an hour :D BUT I'm not running a business, if I was I'd expect to take the rough with the smooth! DIY livery is akin to renting a house. If my water froze over in a rented house I'd be straight on the phone to the landlord! If he provided it outside the house in a big barrel I'd just deal with it and lug it inside etc. Full/part livery is pretty much on par with a hotel, and if the water didnt work in that situation, I'd be straight on the phone to complain! I'd expect the water supply to be delivered to my room...
 
Ahh but how many of you would be prepared to pay hotel room rates for a 12 x 12 stable couple of acres grazing, square foot wise that is a huge hotel room at say £30 a night RO, if you want B&B or even full board or all inclusive prices start from around £49 upwards, so £ a day for all that room to keep your horse is a bargin :) :) :).

I do agree, barrels should be filled as water is a necessity at all times. This weather is tough for everyone, however you have to keep a sense of humour regardless of the amount of times I have been on my butt.
 
Don't think it's on to charge extra. Yes, it's hard but it is a choice of lifestyle and if a service takes longer, why do you have to.pay more?

My YO is putting rent up by 10th quid next week: am going to ask why given the place is a shambles and the school has been down for 20 years and the sprinklers are bust so we water by hand yet he's putting up the rent-crazy. :(
 
Water's a nightmare. Sometimes with all the will in the world you still can't stop it freezing! At work they had heat wire wrapped around all the pipework, then that insulating stuff, and it still froze after the last snow and they had to walk to the property next door to get water. At other yard last year, boss counted something stupid like 50 odd water containers she filled and carried topping up waters on a 20 horse yard. She devoted her time to purely doing waters so the girls could get on with the yard and it took her all day to keep them topped up and take water up to the fields. Horrible stuff! A couple of the liveries came up with 4x4s and helped out by driving water up to the fields, and I know they are all keeping an eye on each others horses whilst many can't get up which is really nice. I am on same yard as Luci07 and I don't think YO would ever charge extra for it. I just don't think I could bring myself to complain about it really having spent a winter lugging water around I know its not easy!
 
I don't agree. The normal cost of part or full livery is for service during normal conditions. I'd like to think it's been carefully calculated to arrive at a figure that works for both YO and liveries. But if the conditions suddenly deteriorate to what could reasonably be described as far outside of normal, then I think a charge is ok. This is a business for the YO and cannot be run as a charity. There are, of course, examples of excellence everywhere you look. For the 1st time ever, I couldn't get to the yard the first Friday when 8ins of snow was busy falling all day. YO did all my 4 horses for me, in, out, stables, hay, water, made up feeds, the works. And when I came to pay my months livery on Friday she wouldn't take a penny for it. Thanks H x
 
Wrong to charge the Full Livery people as this task is part and parcel of the service thay are receiving payment for.

For the part Liveries and DIY's then yes a charge should be made - BUT this should have been in the contract that was signed at the start. I would be more than happy to have someone filling buckets for me if I wasn't able to get to my horse in the weather you are experiencing now.
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
I don't agree. The normal cost of part or full livery is for service during normal conditions. I'd like to think it's been carefully calculated to arrive at a figure that works for both YO and liveries. But if the conditions suddenly deteriorate to what could reasonably be described as far outside of normal, then I think a charge is ok. This is a business for the YO and cannot be run as a charity. x
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Well maybe normal conditions need to be put in writing...what are normal conditions?
Extra charges for doing their jobs below -1? Extra charges when the temp gets above 20 degrees, extra charges because it's cloudy?!?
We live in a country that changes all the time. We have seasons, if you run a business that is outdoors then you take the seasons as they come. You don't charge people depending on the weather.
Yes it's harder work in the winter but I don't see them reducing the rent in the summer when the horses are out 24/7.
Charging you extra for a basic requirement is wrong.
You shouldn't be held to randsom by a Y/O for water for your horse if paying for Full Livery.
 
scally said:
Hmmm quite harsh to add a charge however, how many of you expect to be paid overtime if you do extra time at work?
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There are plenty of people who work longer than their contracted hours and don't get paid for them.
However if I work over my hours I often get time off when we aren't so busy.

Do the hard work when you have to and have time off when work is slack.

Not everyone is money grabbing, some of us do a job because we enjoy it, regardless of the pay or hours.
 
I'd just pay up- no one has any right to whinge.
It is incredibly hard work at the moment feeding and watering horses and to just pay £1.50 extra is nothing.

If I charged an hourly rate for each of my 15 liveries for the amount of time I've spent doing their waters and lugging water butts around, I reckon I'd have made several thousands out of this weather.

But I'm not charging extra, and I wont. Perhaps I should after seeing this post, people obv dont appreciate or understand about the amount of extra work it all is!!
 
We are breaking our backs at the moment doing all the water! I for one am sick and tired of checking liveries water troughs and buckets, and finding them frozen solid AFTER the owners have apparently seen to their horses! VERY early on in the cold snap, everyone was informed that the feed pipe was broken, and they all needed to either bring water from home, or barrel it up from the tap which still works! Every excuse going....

'in a rush, back hurts, haven't got a barrel (even though you have loads and said I can borrow a couple), can't leave the kids in the car for too long in this cold'.....

Do they? do they heckers like......only one of them does!

Do we charge? Certainly not, we COULD leave the horses without I suppose, but no, won't see them suffer.

Don't be too hard on the poor YO, it adds an extra hour onto their day, like ours. Maybe I should start charging for doing it, fed up of lazy people and excuses...

Grrrrr......
 
seabsicuit2 said:
I'd just pay up- no one has any right to whinge.
It is incredibly hard work at the moment feeding and watering horses and to just pay £1.50 extra is nothing
I'm not charging extra, and I wont. Perhaps I should after seeing this post, people obv dont appreciate or understand about the amount of extra work it all is!!
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I'm on DIY and i do appreciate how much hard work it is as i also used to be a groom.

When the water is turned off to stop pipes from bursting i am more than happy to take my own water down, lug it i to my car, then from my car to the stables, unfreeze and chip ice from my buckets twice a day. Also lugging water to the fields and repeating the above process and then having to go to work with frozen hands and numb toes...I'm not denying it's hard work but that's horses in winter....that's any job people do outside in the winter...hard work.
But as a YO you must know this going in to a livery business. If you don't want to look after 35 horses in bad weather then either have less horses or don't offer livery services. Only offer DIY and then they wouldn't have to fill any buckets?!!?

If the YO is filling buckets above and beyond normal service then yes they should charge. With me being on DIY and i asked for them to fill my water then yes i would pay but i don't think it's right IMO to charge a Full Livery extra for doing a job you would have to do anyway, as part of that service.

I stopped being a groom for many reasons. I appreciate the extra difficult workload in the winter and the little thanks you get for doing it but i also used to love the long summer days where i could top up the tan, go for extra long rides and have less mucking out to do and once the jobs were done going home early...rough with the smooth.

To me this is my YO making money out of the bad weather...like HudsonW said

"We live in a country that changes all the time. We have seasons, if you run a business that is outdoors then you take the seasons as they come. You don't charge people depending on the weather."
 
But that is different - you obviously have DIY's and are stuck between a rock and a hard place - and if I was in your shoes I would also be very annoyed at having to cover them, particularly when its so hard.

I pay for part livery, my horse will eat more hay in the winter, and then a lot less come the summer - less bedding, less work etc but I do not expect my bill to be reduced. I pay a fixed rate which would even out over the year.

all in all, and bearing in mind that we are on top of the downs so everything does start to freeze earlier, my yard seems to have got it under control - they have large water carrriers which are kept filled plus a large dustbin in the barn.
 
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