Charity.....Is this normal practice?

B

Biglets Mummy

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 October 2012
Messages
320
Visit site
Hi All, Over my many years on this planet I have spent quiet a lot of time helping out at various charities and good causes - doing my bit and all that and very happy to do do- but recently , through a friend of my family Ive been asked to help out with a really small, quite new sanctuary that is a registered charity - non profit making status.
The person who runs the charity seems to work hard at raising the sanctuary's profile and is doing very very well with donations flooding in.
During a recent chat with them over a pint they told me that the sanctuary was doing well financially l and " As long as it covered its costs and left enough in the pot so I get some Im happy". This person had a part time job until very recently but has resigned.
Being honest - I feel a bit uncomfortable seeing some of these donations rolling in which is meant to be solely for the animals going into this person's pocket. I know they have to live but I naively thought that because they have a certain amount of independent wealth and had a part time job that they lived off that and not dipped into the funds that people give to help the animals.
I am currently over £100 out of pocket after buying equipment for an event recently and have given up quite a bit of free time ( On top of full time job , 3 horses , doglet etc !! ) to help this charity and have been asked to help again but Im uneasy at being asked to help someone raise money that not all goes to the animals.
I will get the £100 ( or as near as damn it) back as I will sell it on but Im on the verge of pulling out of any other help as I just dont feel right. I feel like I am shaking the charity tin under false pretences if that makes sense.

As always thoughts welcome.........Shiraz for all !!!!
 
I'm afraid it wouldn't sit well with me either. There have been a number of charities investigated recently for coining in the money for the animals, and not accounting for this money correctly. One high profile charity is Animal Heaven in Northern Ireland. They have been shut down recently, for this kind of behaviour.
 
Most not for profit charities are really a way for the owner to make a living out of the generosity of others, they may be helping a few animals but most will be making a living from it, is that right morally I am not sure as most cannot do it and provide the facilities without some income otherwise it would be only the very wealthy that could manage but they should be upfront about what wage they do take and they should keep proper records of income, outgoings like any other business does.
 
There is a difference between a registered charity with a charity number and a 'not-for-profit' organisation. Nfp's are not subject to such stringent regulations and afaik, don't have any independent party over-seeing their financial affairs. In your position, OP, I would claim the £100 from the 'sanctuary', that is what the fund-raising is for, then if you are not happy, take a step back.
 
I don't support big charities partly because of this very reason. You are lining the pockets of the super rich.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11435754/32-charity-bosses-paid-over-200000-last-year.html

I have no issues with someone who runs a charity and dedicates all their time to said charity with taking a reasonable living. After all, they are part of the charity, in this case animals need care which is being provided by said owner/founder.

£200,000 is more than a reasonable living.

In this instance as long as all the money is accounted for I can't see a problem with the owner/founder taking a reasonable living.
 
Tricky one - obviously charities do employ people so in itself it's not an issue but I would think it has to be properly declared and all the books would need to be open to scrutiny. May a call to the Charities Commission to ask about employment policies would put your mind at rest or convince you you're right to walk away?
 
It may not be registered - there are only certain categories such as education which qualify and animal welfare on its own isn't one. Plus as a registered one it would be required to have trustees, which the smaller ones would really rather not bother with. TBH without someone taking a salary of sorts who would care for the animals in their care? Volunteers are hard to find and retain and if the owner needed to work elsewhere she couldn't properly look after the animals in her care.
I did have an issue with one I was working with that funded several vehicles from their donated income, more than could be used for the equines (lorry as well as towing vehicle and trailer) and paid rent to one of the trustees - one of the conditions of the Charity Commission is that no trustee should benefit financially from their position.
Doesn't pay to make too many waves though if they are doing a good job with animals in need, you may be jeopardising their ability to do that?
 
My OH was involved in a local charity organisation and ended up jacking it in, sadly, as the main person involved was expecting to draw a full salary, whilst the OH and many, many others busted their guts for free. It was a real shame, as the organisation was fantastic, and now has sadly folded. It seems to be a fairly common theme!
 
Tricky one. I would at the very least expect the salary the owner is taking to be modest and reasonable, no more than the market rate for the work done and to be fully disclosed in publicly available accounts. I don't inherently see a problem with that in the same way as it would be reasonable to employ other staff on the same basis also, provided the charity is in fact doing tangible and demonstrable good. Only you can decide whether you are prepared to volunteer your time alongside paid workers although of course that is common. Most charities would struggle to survive if they didn't have some qualified, reliable paid employees. There is however a problem I think with the people around who seem to want others to fund through donations their "hobby" of "rescuing" horses/dogs/whatever. Too many of those appear to be people expecting others to fund their hobby rather than earning the money to pay for it themselves. In these cases the real charitable benefit to society seems to be small to non-existant!
 
Firstly check if its registered - this is easy to do on a search of the charities commission.

https://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/showcharity/registerofcharities/RegisterHomePage.aspx

Then see if this person is one of the trustees (as previously said they shouldn't benefit from their position) however exceptionally a charity can make provision to pay a working trustee. (This wouldn't seen unreasonable if they've had to resign from a part-time job to run the charity. )

It's unlikely if it's a new charity there will be any documents filed which show the extent of the money being paid to trustees/staff.
 
I think if you are losing income due to spending time caring for the animals, but I would claim minimum wage, but them if you are being employed it should have PAYE done through the books.
It can be that not for profit companies are a way for people to fund their hobby. They rent their stables to the company, so they get rent.
I think the more money they collect some of them spend on non essentials and do not examine how money is spent. I have withdrawn my support from one charity because I thought they were spending on non essentials.
 
I don't take anything out of our donated goods and in fact it takes a lot of my money too attend events, packing costs for postage, petrol, printing. I say its my donation for the month. It usually comes to around £100. I dont think any of the other volunteers do either, unless it is something specific we have been asked to purchase which we get receipts for. What the charity does not use we sell on the charities behalf and have always been very transparent about it and when we have tack sales we even post on social medial the figure we have raised from them.

We have suffered from dishonest people collecting goods for the charity and then the best of them being taken out. There is little can be done about this but we always recommend to message the charity to say what you have and then collection can be arranged through them.
 
That's a tricky one OP. I would echo other posters and speak to the Charity Commission but as Pearlasinger said, just because it is a nonprofit does not make it a charity. Do they have a registered charity number? Is this person a trustee or a staff member? I'm not sure on the law for non-profit vs charities (not all nonprofits qualify as a charity) but it's my understanding that for a charity accounts should be made public or at least have financial reports that can be requested as a way to hold charities accountable for income vs. expenditure.
 
Thanks everyone - really appreciate it -The advice to speak to the charity commission is a good one but I've just noticed that on their new website it says"every penny goes to the animals" - so i think my mind is made up. I am giving up my precious time and energy to something that just doesn't sit quite well with me.... If in doubt leave out as my mum used to say !!
Thanks again all - animal rescue is a minefield isnt it !!!!
 
Mudfukkle said:
I'm afraid it wouldn't sit well with me either. There have been a number of charities investigated recently for coining in the money for the animals, and not accounting for this money correctly. One high profile charity is Animal Heaven in Northern Ireland. They have been shut down recently, for this kind of behaviour.
Click to expand...
Just in case any innocent charities in Northern Ireland get tarred by this- AHAR was actually way down in the South of Ireland (Cork or Kerry I think)

Their sins, I believe, were more related to zero accounting for donations and actually going and purchasing animals at fairs etc using said donations rather than using the cash to keep the animals they already had in a decent way. This money also of course paid the living expenses of the charity 'owner' again with zero accounting to show for it.

There is no doubt that many charities do have to pay employees to run things, but they should all be declared officially and above board.
My aunt and uncle ran a charity for street children in Mexico for many years and basically paid themselves less than minimum wage despite being very qualified people- they did it because they were struck by the plight of the children. They had to be very careful with governance though, as all charities should.

To be hones the whole animal rescue 'scene' is quite troubling- the rivally, infighting, power struggles etc puts me right off.
There are two greyhound rescue charities local to us who literally hate each other and are forever badmouthing one another publicly - when surely they are meant to have the same aims?!
 
Biglets Mummy said:
Thanks everyone - really appreciate it -The advice to speak to the charity commission is a good one but I've just noticed that on their new website it says"every penny goes to the animals" - so i think my mind is made up. I am giving up my precious time and energy to something that just doesn't sit quite well with me.... If in doubt leave out as my mum used to say !!
Thanks again all - animal rescue is a minefield isnt it !!!!
Click to expand...

It's so easy to set up a nonprofit these days, anybody can do it really and it leads to problems like this which can be the result of ignorance as much as a cash grab. If you're on good terms with them it might be worth bringing it to their attention that there are regulations on fundraising and claims like *every penny goes to the animals* that simply aren't true are illegal.

ETA: this falls under Advertising Standards rather than the Charity Commission - I can't load the website but if you search ASA Charity, education and Third Sector there's more information there.
 
Last edited:
It’s a difficult one, people work for charities and get paid to. It’s a balance between getting the right people for the job and fleecing a charity dey. But a not for profit is different to a charity and both can pay wages to their workers
 
sportsmansB said:
Just in case any innocent charities in Northern Ireland get tarred by this- AHAR was actually way down in the South of Ireland (Cork or Kerry I think)

Their sins, I believe, were more related to zero accounting for donations and actually going and purchasing animals at fairs etc using said donations rather than using the cash to keep the animals they already had in a decent way. This money also of course paid the living expenses of the charity 'owner' again with zero accounting to show for it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for correcting my geography :) I didn't really follow AHAR, just assumed they were in the North.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top