Chasing For Unpaid Livery

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Den83

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Hi

I wonder if anyone could give me some advise. I took on a new livery at my yard and she paid half the months livery up front to hold the stable and then the remaining amount when she moved in at the end of July. Her 1st invoice was due to be paid 28th July. I had to chase her and she appeared to be ignoring me as her phone was switched off and she kept coming down the yard much earlier than usual to avoid me! After a week she gave me a cheque which has just bounced. She said she is going to transfer the money, im not all that happy her staying at the yard but is it a bit harsh giving her a months notice now or should I wait to see if the money is transferred and wait to see if she is late again at the end of this month?
 
If playing the avoidance technique and bouncing cheques I wouldn't be impressed. If not upfront about it I'd see it setting a precedence... Know where she was before? Id dig a little, if unusual no worries, if common, I'd be looking to move her on quickly if debts stack up.
 
It's not the greatest of starts, is it? I'm not one to be giving too many second chances, but I think I would wait and see on this one, then, if she does the same next month, just hand her notice.
 
Just logged on to say - boot her off now! Well give notice. I would bet you anything that she will be like this the whole time she is there. Good luck!
 
If I were in your position, I would write her an email, keeping the tone friendly and non-judgmental. I'd explain that you are unable to operate a livery yard if tennants don't pay in a timeous fashion. Maybe give her an excuse so as not to push her to defensiveness- perhaps blame moving for her 'forgetfulness'. If you can come across as supportive, you should be able to preserve a future working relationship but your letter could still act as an official warning. Then, if there are any further problems, you're able to terminate the agreement knowing you've given her more than a fair chance.
 
Just going to play devil's advocate here for a while, bear with me. You say that the livery was due 28th July and she paid you by cheque a week late. that would have been around 3rd / 4th August. Yet you also say that the cheque has just bounced? Does that mean you were sitting on her cheque for several weeks without paying it in, and is it possible that paying it in coincided with the end of her payment cycle (i.e. you paid it in just before payday) and that she had some unforeseen expenses in the meantime??

Also, depending on what work she does and what time you are generally on the yard, is it possible that her work schedule prevents her from being on the yard whilst you are there and it may not be an intentional avoidance technique at all? I know when I get busy at work there are times when I don't see anyone else at the yard for days on end, and I allegedly only have a 9 - 5 job!

Personally I would give her the benefit of the doubt initially and then hand her notice if she is late for the second invoice. Good luck!
 
Hi sorry my dates were not correct, her 1st invoice was due 28th August, I paid the cheque in the day I received it. I have advised her that the cheque bounced and she is due to transfer the funds from her building society account to a current account and then transfer to us. My husband thinks this is delaying tactics and that we should call her back and tell her we need the cash ASAP!
 
It can take a while for a bounced cheque to work it's way back through the system & the payee to be informed. If she is paying by cheque it may be a few days before OP can get to a branch to pay in. The time can get to a month quite easily. I would suggest getting her to set up a standing order for future payments for the basic amount. Any extras could be paid seperately.
 
Den83 said:
Hi sorry my dates were not correct, her 1st invoice was due 28th August, I paid the cheque in the day I received it. I have advised her that the cheque bounced and she is due to transfer the funds from her building society account to a current account and then transfer to us. My husband thinks this is delaying tactics and that we should call her back and tell her we need the cash ASAP!
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Ah, my apologies. Was just trying to see it from every possible angle and be as fair as possible IYSWIM. In that case it might be worth trying to find out from a previous yard if she is a generally reliable person. Hope it all works out for you, bank transfers are pretty much instant, so if you haven't got the money by the end of the week I would hand her her notice
 
I would give her notice now but insist that if she wants to stay the whole month she has to pay up front, otherwise she has to be off the yard within one week.

ETA: this may seem harsh, but IME if people start off this badly, it only gets worse. You don't want that sort on your yard. No respect or manners, let alone not paying.
 
You're all kinder than me, I'd give notice immediately before the livery charges started mounting up further. There's every likelihood you will need to chase for payment most of the time, and if finances are a problem, things may start disappearing. To quote Homer Simpson 'if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing'.
 
I would also give her a week's notice right away. If she's prepared to take the **** now, god only knows what she'll be like in a few months time - and you do not need the hassle. get rid !
 
I'd be giving this one notice pronto. Switching off the phone, arriving early and bouncing cheques are all signs of avoiding paying.

I would also be asking for payment in cash - no other way.

If she pays up then I suggest that this one is billed weekly and any contract you currently have made null and void, and a new one made.
 
SadKen said:
You're all kinder than me, I'd give notice immediately before the livery charges started mounting up further. There's every likelihood you will need to chase for payment most of the time, and if finances are a problem, things may start disappearing. To quote Homer Simpson 'if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing'.
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I agree!

I don't know whether there's other liveries on your yard, but if so, one rotten egg in the barrel means that others might think they can get away with not paying either; and you're not running a charitable institution are you.

Um, what is in her livery contract re. payment & defaulting thereof???

Personally I'd give notice to this one. Even if she pays now, you'll very likely have problems with her again in the future sometime, plus if a vet or farrier attends her horse you'll have a helluva job getting any money out of her for that, OR her horse will be the one with awful feet and needing vet. attention but the owner won't call the vet coz they can't afford it.

Get rid! You don't need the hassle. There are other liveries out there who won't' take the Pee and will pay on time and be nice people on the yard. You could, if you wished, send her a letter by recorded delivery saying that basically she's in arrears for her livery (set it out concisely so there's no doubt) and that this amount is overdue NOW, and you require payment forthwith or you will consider legal action to recover your debt, and that from such-and-such a date, you are giving her notice that she, her horse, and any personal effects are required to be off the yard and if not so removed can be used to offse the debt. Simples.

Think this one is taking you as a soft touch TBH.

The words "kick, @rse, the, road, up" spring to mind.
 
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Giver her the benefit of the doubt.

Why not tell her that you feel she hasn't got off on the best foot but that it would probably best if she paid in cash in the short term and that it must be upfront.
Tell her that if she does have an issue then she needs to talk to you asap as lack of communication is a bug bear of yours (whether it is or not) and that you prefer things upfront and open so that you both know what is happening. Also that if she is late again without talking to you then you will have no option but to ask her to leave.
 
Speaking as a livery myself, if my cheque bounced (this has never happened, touch wood), I would be mortified and would phone YO to apologise and turn up with cash the next day. As this livery hasn't done that, they either have no money or no respect for you (possibly both) and either way, you don't want them on your yard.

This sort of thing often causes a bad atmosphere on yards. I would give notice. If they apologise and pay up, you can always let them stay, but would need to be cash up front from now on.
 
Den83 said:
Hi sorry my dates were not correct, her 1st invoice was due 28th August, I paid the cheque in the day I received it. I have advised her that the cheque bounced and she is due to transfer the funds from her building society account to a current account and then transfer to us. My husband thinks this is delaying tactics and that we should call her back and tell her we need the cash ASAP!
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I am with your OH ,why did she not get you a BS cheque which can't bounce .
 
It is possible that the bouncing cheque is a one off due to poor financial management.
It is possible that she has been hard to contact by phone for some good reason.
It is possible that she has altered her hours of attendance for a reasonable and innocent reason.

The chances of all 3 happening at the same time, but her being ultimately reliable are probably the same as that of hell freezing over.

Give notice or expect similar hassle every month!
 
Am not a YO but from your other liveries POV I would give her notice. A YO I know recently admitted to someone that she is owed over £4k in unpaid livery from a few individuals. The school at the yard desperately needs resurfacing but she can't afford to do it whilst owed money, so the paying liveries are suffering for those who owe money. Not fair!
 
I think there are a lot of people out there who get away with not paying because of people good nature, I would give her notice and because she hasn't paid at the start of her contract if she had one it wouldn't be a month.If she like this now goodness knows what she will be like in winter and just the worry of is it or not going to be paid every month would drive me up the wall. I would get them to pay by standing order so you don't get the costs if a cheque bounces
 
Update on the situation - I received a text from the lady in question Sunday asking for us to sort the pony out as her car had broken down (she is on assisted DIY so men part livery for the day) I advised no problem. There was no mention of money etc, I then received a call from her on Monday asking the same thing, again no apology/mention of late payment. In all fairness I was a little relieved as it broke the ice. Then Tuesday I see the cheque she gave bounced! I called her straight away on Tuesday & she advised she would transfer money from building society to her current account, I gave her our bank details so she could transfer the money. Well surprise surprise no sign of the money yet, also as her car is still 'broken' we have been dealing with the pony all week!!! I am writing a letter giving her notice to be out by 28th sept which is her next due date & advising we will take her to small claims court if not paid!!! I can't believe some people, she didn't even text too it asking me to sort the pony out she just took it for granted that he would be dealt with! I'm now wondering if I have an abandoned pony on my hands!
 
How annoying for you! Hope you get it all sorted out ASAP. I once missed a weeks payment (I pay my livery weekly by SO) I was mortified and went down with cash as soon as I realised. Don't understand those who don't pay, why have a horse if you can't afford it?!
 
personally I would give her one or more of these three choices

Pay all the money owed plus the next month's livery then from then on she should pay before the subsequent months are up so that you have the money before each month's livery starts (maybe a week before the others pay) or even pay weekly

Dont pay anything and leave this weekend (cut your losses)

Pay up the money owed and leave at the end of the month

I dont see why you are honouring her 'due date' by letting her stay till then - her current 'due date' is 28th August!
 
By not keeping to the terms of her contract ,(failure to pay,) She has rendered it nul and void. You are entitled to throw her out immediately. Cut your losses and chuck her out . If the cheque was returned ,refer to drawer ,on its first presentation,this means that her bank has no realistic expectation of her honouring it.
 
It doesn't sound promising. I'm confused as to what she has tried to achieve....surely she didn't think that if she wrote a rubber cheque you would just 'forget' about it & not bother her for livery. Some people are weird.
 
Speaking as a livery that very recently moved my new horse to a new yard I would have been mortified if my 1st payment to the YO had bounced and would have not only been super apologetic but would have also been on your doorstep with cash pronto.

Our YO is lovely and very relaxed about payments but as I'm new I ensured she sent me an invoice for this month ahead of time as I knew I would be on my honeymoon when our next payment was due and wanted to make sure the correct amount was still paid on time.

If this livery doesn't have the common decency to apologise for the bounced cheque and pay you immediately I'd hand her her notice.
 
If anything of hers (other than the pony!) is kept at yours(?tack?),I would keep it (in your house?) as security for the final payment of monies owed to date.
Otherwise,I fear it sounds like she will probably just leave and you may well never see any payment for the services given & facilities used since she arrived:(
Can't believe there's some still prepared to give her a chance. (Perhaps they've never been YOs/YMs!) Even if she paid up tomorrow,I wouldn't want her-she sounds a right royal pain in the ass and frankly,there's just not enough profit (what's profit?Ha ha!) in livery to warrant all the messing about you've had already. You shouldn't ever have to chase the money,especially not (as others have said) when she's only just arrived!
Good luck-hope she goes (or has a complete character transplant!) and you get someone more straightforward and conscientious in!
 
glamourpuss said:
It doesn't sound promising. I'm confused as to what she has tried to achieve....surely she didn't think that if she wrote a rubber cheque you would just 'forget' about it & not bother her for livery. Some people are weird.
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This brings back so many memories of two years ago. My YO took on 4 ponies/horses from a lady on full livery. The promised monies never arrived in the YO's bank account. Bounced cheques as well. Text's not answered. Always an excuse, buy at work, bank has screwed up the transfers, will def have money next week, etc etc. Well the months went on and my YO was pulling her hair out. We done some digging and found out that she was a con artist, basically would put her ponies and horses (and she had quite a few) in different liveries, and never paid. Eventually, the horses were kicked off but in the meantime, they had been looked after and fed etc. It took 9 months before my YO had closure, she took one pony in part payment, the others were picked up by a transporter (probably to go to another livery). It all got rather nasty. So, the moral to the story is this - give her notice NOW - and get her off the yard. After seeing what happened to my YO and how distressing it became, I would never take a chance like that again. There are better liveries out there. Just remember, winter is approaching, and if she is up to no good, like our livery was, you shall have to find the feed and bedding etc. Also, was told that if you take on the horse on part or full livery, you have to by law still feed and care for it, as otherwise you will be prosecuted. You could technically have the pony in your care for a long time, if the owner started to mess you about financially wise.
 
Mike007 said:
By not keeping to the terms of her contract ,(failure to pay,) She has rendered it nul and void. You are entitled to throw her out immediately. Cut your losses and chuck her out . If the cheque was returned ,refer to drawer ,on its first presentation,this means that her bank has no realistic expectation of her honouring it.
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Cheques used to be returned with either 'refer to drawer please represent ' (you might get your money as funds expected) or ' refer to drawer' (no chance and we won't let you represent it).

My understanding is that this has changed and that all returned cheques are now refer to drawer. I stand to be corrected tho...might have imagined what I read!

So altho I would say get rid now straight away no ifs or buts, the RD is now just the standard reply on a returned cheque.
 
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