Cheap Indian saddle/bridles on ebay...

In regards to the bridles i would buy a cheap bridle to use everyday, I dont tend to spend over 25 quid for a bridle that my horse will be wearing at home everyday but I do tend to look for better for comps and showing so yes i would snap up a cheapy bridle or two no matter wheres its from anyday :)
 
Oz

I think you need to make it clear that the Heritage stuff being talked about on here is NOT Matt Marlow's stuff. Matt's family had the original Heritage saddlery but failed to protect the name and then the name was used by the crappy trade saddlery which seem to sell to anyone and everyone wanting to make a few quid.
The only way to ensure you are getting the original Heritage stuff which is made in England is to buy directly from Matt. He does sell on ebay, but his user name is MattyMarlow. If you don't buy from him, then you are not getting original Heritage, made in England products.
I have had a totally independant saddler come out to see two saddles made by Matt this evening as one of the saddles needs an adjustment now that the horse has expanded - she was impressed by the quality and fit of his saddles and she is a fussy lady!
 
Yes you are right Matt is a good mate of mine but to try to explain it as well as you have would take me all night, thanks you have done it for me!!
Oz :)
 
OK now I AM confused!!!

So my Heritage bridles from Matt are English/English, but my Rhinegold bridles are German leather/Indian made??

If that is the case then I can see no justification whatsoever for saying that English manufactured bridles have better lorinery and better craftsmanship than Indian, because when the name stud drops off, as they always do in the end, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell which is the "better" bridle. In fact it is only possible to tell them apart at all by the slightly bigger size of a Rhinegold XF and the Heritage stamps on the buckles.

If a stainless steel buckle does its job, does not rust and does not break, how is it possible for an English one to be "better" as people are suggesting?

I think some of the posters on here need to get up to date. Indian tack used to be guaranteed to smell foul and be badly made with dangerous leather, but times have changed and there is decent bridlework coming from Asia with good quality lorinery, straight and safe stitching, and very nice deep oiled leather at a great price.

We need to learn to compete. Matt Marlow seems to be able to with Heritage, why can't more people?
 
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cptrayes said:
OK now I AM confused!!!

So my Heritage bridles from Matt are English/English, but my Rhinegold bridles are German leather/Indian made??

If that is the case then I can see no justification whatsoever for saying that English manufactured bridles have better lorinery and better craftsmanship than Indian, because when the name stud drops off, as they always do in the end, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell which is the "better" bridle. In fact it is only possible to tell them apart at all by the slightly bigger size of a Rhinegold XF and the Heritage stamps on the buckles.

If a stainless steel buckle does its job, does not rust and does not break, how is it possible for an English one to be "better" as people are suggesting?

I think some of the posters on here need to get up to date. Indian tack used to be guaranteed to smell foul and be badly made with dangerous leather, but times have changed and there is decent bridlework coming from Asia with good quality lorinery, straight and safe stitching, and very nice deep oiled leather at a great price.

We need to learn to compete. Matt Marlow seems to be able to with Heritage, why can't more people?
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Hi Cptrayes

If your Heritage bridles have Heritage stamped on them, they are NOT Matt's. He doesn't put stamps on his buckles, or a name badge on the bridle. These are the trade saddlery Heritage ones...
 
Holly Hocks said:
Hi Cptrayes

If your Heritage bridles have Heritage stamped on them, they are NOT Matt's. He doesn't put stamps on his buckles, or a name badge on the bridle. These are the trade saddlery Heritage ones...
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OK. My girths are Matt's though, I bought direct from him through eBay and one of those has terribly rusty buckles on it. My Treadstone Indian one has perfect buckles.
 
Actually English leather and German leather are commonly used in the trade to describe how much stuffing is used in the tanning process. Even in Walsall the hides you buy are imported

Hides - English were not used due to warble fly, then due to the 30 month rule (too small). Countries with wire fences have also gone out of fashion.

In the unlikely event that they are tanned here (I believe only 3 tanneries in operation), you'd pay a hefty premium. Generally luxury products like car interiors (think Morgan), have the market cornered.

So Unicorn you may be "buying" english leather from Walsall, but are you 100% sure of what you are stitching? I'm not saying its not top quality, but just saying its a global market and the best product isn't English!
If you are buying direct from say: http://www.bradford-hide.co.uk/ then I stand corrected, but think your bridles are too cheap if that is the case....

Also to say all English made bridlework is better than Indian is total *******s
There are craftsmen in India hand stitching where UK guys are using machines to save time. Its like saying that every English builder is better than every builder elsewhere!

For that matter where do Scottish and Welsh saddler's stand?

So the answer is it all depends, however standards have increased and to find a bit of nasty Indian leather tanned with Fish oil and urine (rather than veg fat) is quite rare now, as it is not wanted.

No one is trying to rip anyone off, with the cost of living in the UK, anyone who thinks they can get a bridle which is British hide tanned and made in the UK for under £100 is dreaming
 
Sorry if this has already been said, i have only skimmed through this post while at work :rolleyes:

I thought everything sold in the UK had to have a sticker or label saying 'made in...'?

I realise there are ways around this, slightly off topic but there is a certain ironing board manufacturer who states that they are made in the UK - when they are most certainly not I have seen the factories, BUT they do put some components on to the board in the UK which means that they can state MADE IN ENGLAND on the packaging.
 
Fab :) lets hope I bagged a bargain, I sent an email to him asking if he could tell me whether the saddle was one of his own or not - so we'll see. Still, looks like a lovely saddle and the seller has excellent feedback.
 
My dad used to be a technical manager at a leather tannery in Carlisle who made specialist leather (his claim to fame is that he once processed some leather for a cream coat to be worn by Sporty Spice on their final tour...dubious I know!) before they closed in the early Noughties as everything was being made in Bangladesh. He also worked at one in Hull although I'm not sure how many other tanneries of English leather are still around today.

I had an interesting find in the bargain bin of our local feedshop - they had apparently found a box of bridles and other assorted leather items 'in the back' that had been there for about 10 years, unopened. They put them on sale for about £19 a bridle. I had a ratch through, and decided to buy one - when I got it home, it was stamped Made in England, and was indeed english leather - lovely and soft, just needed a good clean and soaping. Needless to say I nipped in to the shop and bought another, along with a lovely breastplate. When I peeled off the sale tags, I found my bridle had been on sale for £89 previously...! Bargain! The guy who owned the feed shop didn't have a clue about the quality of them, and I wasn't about to tell him!

My last bridles were black GFS ones - they were horrible. Yes they were £50, but I would have expected better than that - I had two and the quality was totally different for the same design. Interesting if they are made in Argentina, as a friend had an old one and hers was lovely.
 
Kitsune said:
Fab :) lets hope I bagged a bargain, I sent an email to him asking if he could tell me whether the saddle was one of his own or not - so we'll see. Still, looks like a lovely saddle and the seller has excellent feedback.
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He is one of the saddlers that makes his own basged "ideal" saddles - they are lovely! I have a couple of VSD's of his of variaous ages and they are lovely saddles, if you have found one at a good price then grab it!
 
Wagtail said:
A friend of mine recently bought a jeffries bridle and was very disappointed. I am not kidding when I say she had to oil it 16 times before it started to lose its stiffness and the keepers are so tight it is really difficult to thread the straps through them.Could they have out surced some of their manufacturing?
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I bought a Jeffries drop noseband (from their 'traditional' range) recently and haven't oiled it at all. The best way to supple up leather is to use it.
 
Jane_Lou said:
He is one of the saddlers that makes his own basged "ideal" saddles - they are lovely! I have a couple of VSD's of his of variaous ages and they are lovely saddles, if you have found one at a good price then grab it!
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That's great news, thanks, paid under £200 for it :) not like me to be lucky! :D
 
Jen_Cots said:
Actually English leather and German leather are commonly used in the trade to describe how much stuffing is used in the tanning process. Even in Walsall the hides you buy are imported

Hides - English were not used due to warble fly, then due to the 30 month rule (too small). Countries with wire fences have also gone out of fashion.

In the unlikely event that they are tanned here (I believe only 3 tanneries in operation), you'd pay a hefty premium. Generally luxury products like car interiors (think Morgan), have the market cornered.

So Unicorn you may be "buying" english leather from Walsall, but are you 100% sure of what you are stitching? I'm not saying its not top quality, but just saying its a global market and the best product isn't English!
If you are buying direct from say: http://www.bradford-hide.co.uk/ then I stand corrected, but think your bridles are too cheap if that is the case....

Also to say all English made bridlework is better than Indian is total *******s
There are craftsmen in India hand stitching where UK guys are using machines to save time. Its like saying that every English builder is better than every builder elsewhere!

For that matter where do Scottish and Welsh saddler's stand?

So the answer is it all depends, however standards have increased and to find a bit of nasty Indian leather tanned with Fish oil and urine (rather than veg fat) is quite rare now, as it is not wanted.

No one is trying to rip anyone off, with the cost of living in the UK, anyone who thinks they can get a bridle which is British hide tanned and made in the UK for under £100 is dreaming
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I buy from http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/index.php good leather from Devon, not from Walsall.

Again, the point I am making is wholesalers and manufacturers should tell people where the saddlery is made so they can choose to buy it or not. It's not about ripping people off with just the amount of money they charge for indian saddlery made using english leather.
You are splitting hairs about Scottish,Welsh saddlers that is not what I was on about, there are all good in their own right as are Irish saddlers.

Hand made or machined indian saddlery still has to use indian lorinery which is not as good as the stainless steel lorinery in use in the UK. That is a fact ,ask any saddler you will get the same answer.The imported english leather saddlery has also spent possibly months in storage before the customer gets it, leather will dry out over time even if it is new and unused so leather items made here and sold sooner will retain far more fat content then imported saddlery.
I wouldn't say all English made bridlework is better as you have said, most of it but not all, you'll always get an exception.
Oz :)
 
unicornleather said:
Hand made or machined indian saddlery still has to use indian lorinery which is not as good as the stainless steel lorinery in use in the UK.
Oz :)
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Oz, if a stainless steel buckle works, does not rust, does not break and looks the same in use on a bridle, how is it possible for an English made one to be "better"?
 
That's just it, they don't always use stainless steel, often it's nickel plated steel or brass with internal flaws and the stainless they do use often isn't fettled off properly leaving sharp edges that aren't seen on the made up bridlework from the outside as they are behind the turns.You don't know they are there until the leather fails due to the rough edges cutting into it.
 
I've never experienced any of that and I keep my tack in very challenging conditions where everything that will rust rusts and everything that will mould moulds. I know there is some VERY nasty Asian tack available but Heritage/Rhinegold bridles are not among them from my experience. In fact, the only lorinery I have had any problems with in the last ten years has been on an English made English leather girth from the original Heritage brand, which has severely rusty buckles. The blanket condemnation of Asian tack by some people on this thread is simply out of date.
 
That's your opinion but not mine
I wil give credit where credit is due on any saddlery from any country but in 23 years of being in the trade I have yet to see any worth credit from Asia
 
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You wouldn't count this bridle, been in daily use including regularly in the conditions you see there for five years and not a peep of trouble from it ? It costs £50 today, I've just bought another. One of the lovely things about them being such good value is that I can afford to have my expensive bling browband on a bridle that I keep only for competition, to save the crystals getting dirty the rest of the time. The equivalent bridle English made is over twice as much and I really cannot see where the additional value is myself. They are Asian import reins too and I can tell you that horse can take one hell of a pull when the hounds are running :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IaGqwoQlnmA/TOvlktjYQHI/AAAAAAAAAqg/NHHYx77wYNo/s1600/Coming+Down+WR.jpg


You're entitled to your opinion of course, but there are thousands of happy hackers in this country who perceive value in the Asian tack that they use day in day out and if English bridlework can't compete then it will be operating in a niche market only.
 
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I must admit, I have two Heritage 'Indian made' bridles, one of them is around 8 years old, not a sign of rust on it, the other is about 3 years old and ditto. When I got my first bridle, my friend bought an Elevator bridle, we compared the two and there was very very little in it, except, of course about £100! Interestingly, my older Heritage is still going strong, her Elevator stretched and became unusable - go figure :confused:

I do, however, agree with labelling and that the statement 'English Leather' is very misleading.
 
unicornleather said:
You have me on that one!
I don't know is the answer, maybe they have skinnier horses out there, same as their cattle,they always seem skin and bone!
We have measurements for making up bridles for off the peg, there can be a inch or two in it but it's usually near the mark, if we are making a bridle to fit the horse from measurements then we'd know how much to add and should get it spot on.
Off the peg bridles have to try to cater for all shapes and sizes, very hard to do.
Oz :)
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Short throat latch - you were lucky - I have an equus bridle, and it has a one so long I could use it as a skipping rope! - Nice noseband though, but crap fit.....got full size for 16hh spanish boy, and is HUGE.......however straps are all 'squishy' at the ends and are a bugger to get through the keepers as either the keepers are too small, or the straps are too fat. Was bought a Spanish bridle for Christmas and that seemed to be made of two layers of awful leather stitched on top of each other - really thick and impossible (almost) to assemble bridle - tut tut tut - grumpy old woman alert!
 
I think the point is not that we shouldn't buy indian made bridles, its that we should be able to make an informed decision. The labeling should make it clear where it was made instead of using trickery to suggest its UK made.

I have an Elevator bridle and its beautiful, quite old now but fab soft leather. Its uk made. I also have an indian made Heritage bridle and its fine, but I knew it was indian made when I bought it. However, I almost didn't buy it because I dislike their marketing trickery.

Mind you clothing seems to be even more of a minefield (not that your likely to die if your fleece jumper falls apart :D ) but almost any change to the garment seems to allow you to declare it was made in the UK. We were approached to re-label a load of garments, basically to snip the Made in China labels out and replace with Made in the UK. When I questioned I was told that the act of sewing in the new label would make it legit :( No idea if what they told me is true, but we declined the work......Mind you it puzzles me why the bother since virtually all clothing seems to made in China :D.
 
0ldmare said:
I think the point is not that we shouldn't buy indian made bridles, its that we should be able to make an informed decision. The labeling should make it clear where it was made instead of using trickery to suggest its UK made.

I have an Elevator bridle and its beautiful, quite old now but fab soft leather. Its uk made. I also have an indian made Heritage bridle and its fine, but I knew it was indian made when I bought it. However, I almost didn't buy it because I dislike their marketing trickery.

Mind you clothing seems to be even more of a minefield (not that your likely to die if your fleece jumper falls apart :D ) but almost any change to the garment seems to allow you to declare it was made in the UK. We were approached to re-label a load of garments, basically to snip the Made in China labels out and replace with Made in the UK. When I questioned I was told that the act of sewing in the new label would make it legit :( No idea if what they told me is true, but we declined the work......Mind you it puzzles me why the bother since virtually all clothing seems to made in China :D.
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Yes, oldmare, this is the point I have been trying to make not whether the indian made is good or not, I have my own opinions on that as does everyone else. As you have said, it's the trickery involved to make people think it is made here instead of abroad.
Oz :)
 
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