CHEATING!?!? lol

interesting, however when i phoned BD about it, they did say you can be downgraded to 0 points depending on riding ability ad the assors view.

thats me out, im getting bored of repeating myself
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I didnt realise that PG! - so if you accept that the horse loses all current points (whether or not imported??) and the rider is shall we say "novicey" to avoid any upsets, then you can import a horse and go in at prelim. This has put me off a couple of horses because I thought it could not be done but there is a light thanks to PG.
 
Scenario One simply doesn't ring true.

Firstly, it is not possible to downgrade a horse to 0 points to allow it to compete in affiliated prelims.

If downgraded for a Group 8 rider, then the horse would have been given 40 points, so ineligible for Prelims as the points limit there is 37. The rider would have had to have competed in the Open section of Novices, and in the Open section up to and including the level from which it had been downgraded.

Additionally downgraded horses can only be competed by the rider for whom it was downgraded, or another rider of the same rider group. If the horse is competed by a rider from a higher group, it reverts back to its highest ever level of points and the downgrading is deleted. Finally, a downgraded horse may not be competed in any qualifier for 6 months after downgrading.

Both competing as Novice Restricted and a Group 4 rider competing a downgraded horse in Novice would be picked up at BD when the show results are sent in, so couldn't happen more than once or twice over a very short period before the owner/rider was notified and, potentially, fined.

Assessment has also been mentioned - and has got muddled up with downgrading - they are completely different.

Assessment, which can bring a horse down to 0 points is only available for imported horses. A horse with an existing BD competition record cannot be assessed. It is in place so that a horse brought in at, say 8 years old, which would automatically be given 350 points (Advanced) but has a level of training considerably below - maybe it was a late broken broodmare - can be given a points level more applicable to its stage of training.

The assessment is done on the HORSE's ability, not the rider's. That is the whole point - to allow a relatively unschooled horse to be competed at a fair level, but to stop a more experienced horse having its points reduced and then being passed on to a more experienced rider.

For references, see the BD Rulebook

Downgrading - Rule 16 page 11
Imported Horses/.Assessment - Rules 17/18 pages 11/12.


As for the Trailblazers scenario, BD cannot penalise a rider who has ridden outside of BD. It would be virtually impossible to police as there are far too many unaffiliated competitions. Trailblazers is well known, but what about Riding Clubs competitions?

If riders want to pot hunt to that extent, that's their call. Dressage is about achieving harmony and understanding between horse and rider. Results and placings are merely incidental.
 
i was obviuosly told wrong information by BD when i spoke to them on the phone then. Oh well, im certainly not going to loose sleep over it as im never going to want to downgrade anyways!!
 
Just saw ur reply PG! If you got ur horse downgraded for your sharer - so has 0 points at all, then you hired a pro instead to start doing novices over again with your horse, would you not feel like thats bending the rules a little bit
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lol?

BIG CONGRATS for the nationals what did you win?
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Sorry PG i mean tb = trailblazers

Troi, thanks for your reply thats really detailed! But i'm not kidding, that is what the horse is doing, whether it is in the rules or not!
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I wasn't refering to any TB or riding club comp - i was meaning if you have won the National TB Final at Stoneleigh - because, even if you argue that it is 'easier' than BD anyway, I BELIEVE that is quite a feat! Remember to qualify tb finals, you have to qualify initially with 2 %'s and then do the semi finals (which round our way go on for 4 days!) then the semis, i just think thats quite a lot of mileage, and i believe it would be fairer if this achievement was recognise as such. I just think being elem national champ in unaff dressage then jumping back down to prelim BD is a bit, well, unfair! lol :P:)

I have ridden loads of advanced horses, and i would put money that i could get more out of an advanced horse in a prelim, than a 4yo - which TBH are (in my opinion) who the classes are really intended for anyway (novice riders / horses not pro riders on downgraded Advanced ggs).
 
Hi,

Do bear in mind that TB rules mean that the eligible BD points for each class are much lower than BD competitions so you are not really comparing like with like.

For example the elementary riders at TB are not allowed more than 74 points so in effect they are pushing all riders up a level. Therefore standard cant anywhere near as high as BD because the elem horses are actually nov horses.
 
e34, I agree with both your resposnses above - which is why the downgrading and assessment rules are as they are. Assessment MUST be done on the horse, or the scenario you outline is more than possible - and unfair to other riders.

As for the advanced horse in low level classes, a properly trained advanced horse - in other words, one that has a thoroughly established way of going rather than just been trained in the tricks, should always score more highly than a less established "true" Prelim/Novice horse.

Which is why the rules are in place. If they are being flouted, BD need to know so they can do something about it.

Oh - and PG was joint winner of the Petplan Novice Open Area Festival Final at Solihull (run alongside the BD Winter Championships) two weeks ago. Well done to her.
 
Think that is for downgrading of imported horses.They maybe can go down to 0,not sure, but horses that have competed here cannot and if ridden by a higher rider they must go back up and they have to go in open and cannot compete in national qualifiers for 6 months.Sparklet[love the name ]is right
 
Yes, I suppose that's a good point. My older horse has medium points, but my sharer can't actually get the lazy old git to canter a nice 20m circle in the school yet. He'll trot round in a pretty shape but there's zip engagement on display.

I suppose not everyone wants a challenge either. Maybe eventually the rider on the AM horse competing at Prelim will feel confident enough to have a go at something more challenging. I still maintain though that those clustered around the scoreboard on genuine prelim horses will be less than impressed that she's turning up and scooping the prizes every time.

Mind you, we did a novice u/a once as part of a team and got beaten by a load of kids on hairy ponies! Bloody judges - what do they know!!
 
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