Checking moorland ponies

[SpruceRI]

I've always assumed that New Forest ponies get 'noticed' by either the Rangers or the general public because although the forest is huge, there are a lot of people moving around on it too.

But that other wild ponies don't get checked at all apart from at round-ups, though having holidayed on Exmoor quite a lot, the Exmoors usually look in good condition.

 

[happyhacking:)]

I'll probably be reported for this but the foals in those pictures will be available for homing through a HOPE dartmoor rescue around the end of September-October time.

dont tempt me! I had one last year (not from hope but from Charlotte)!

 

[YorksG]

Moorland sheep get a very similar level of care as the moorland ponies. They gather them in for shearing, will put feed out in very bad weather, but essentially they are on their own.

 

[Spiritedly]

dont tempt me! I had one last year (not from hope but from Charlotte)!

I got one of my ponies from them 18 months ago and he's amazing, he takes everything in his stride and is being backed by my 9 yr old. I've seen some of the foals that are coming in this year and there are some little stunners.

 

[Potato!]

I had a fall from my old mare on dartmoor a few years ago. There were several of us looking for her for over 24hrs on quad bikes and on foot and horseback. Now this was a haflinger that was fully tacked up and she still took over 24 hours to find her. Just goes to show how difficult to spot 1 pony on the moors

 

[LittleWildOne]

Okay, to give you an idea of the areas these semi-feral ponies live on, I'll use the New Forest as an example.
The New Forest National Park is approx 220 SQUARE MILES in size.
The New Forest itself is approx 150 SQUARE MILES in size.
Within the New Forest (150 sq miles), there are -
approx 56 square miles of broadleaved woodland,
approx 46 square miles of grassland and heathland,
approx 13 square miles of wet heathland,
approx 32 square miles of tree plantations established since the 18th century,
31 square miles of these tree plantations have been planted by the Forestry Commission since 1920.

Within these approx 150 square miles, the figures for depastured stock is -
in 2011, there were 4,595 Ponies
+ 2,394 Cattle
+ 341 Pigs
+ 135 Sheep
+ 128 Donkeys
giving a total of 7,593 head of stock living freely within those 150 square miles.

Some of the animals stay within a certain area, but it is a very large area. The stock moves around all the time.
Some of the stock moves outwith the boundaries of the area in which they are supposed to be, often crossing into another herds territory.

To give you an idea of how difficult it can be to find any particular pony, when I was down there in May 2011 to buy my filly, her breeder, a practising commoner, took me out to go looking for my pony's dam.
Izzy had lived on the same part of the forest all of her life, around Lyndhurst.
She often grazed on an area known as Bolton's Bench, this is where my filly was born. We spent a good few hours looking for Izzy, but she was nowhere to be seen. The NF stallions had been turned out on to the forest just 3 days before and there were a lot of ponies moving between their "own" areas (called haunts). Stallions are put out on a specific area of the forest, and these "stallion areas" are rotated each year. May 2011 in the New Forest was chaos. Stallions were moving between "areas" and stealing each others mares !
Back to my pony's dam...there were no ponies at all anywhere in the areas that this herd usually lives. It took my filly's breeders 3 weeks to find her...and they DO go out every single day to find and check their stock. They also ask other commoners to look out for any ponies that they can't find.
In an ideal world, the ponies would be checked (even from a distance) every day, but sometimes it just isn't possible as they can and do go "walkabout".

 

[guesstimation]

Sadly it's very hard to check daily as has been said and they rely a lot on the public to report things, I think what would help is much more available information about who to report an ill or injured pony to. Signs in car parks etc.

I had a call only yesterday from someone worried about a mare unable to walk with foal at foot trying to feed but she had no idea who to call i I used to help run a Dartmoor organisation so my number is still around and I get quite a few calls so direct them to people who can help. If that info was more readily available it would help and perhaps more would get reported.

I recently saw a photo of what looked like some extremely obese ponies on the moor and the people managing them see nothing wrong, that concerns me, there is having extra padding going nto winter and then there is worryingly obese and they need to be managed better. There do seem to be more lami type cases around.

Off to see dying on Dartmoor thread not seen it yet

 

[Dry Rot]

I think some here should go to Google maps, Google "Dartmoor", and have a look at Satellite view.

I, too, lived in Devon and, what is more, worked in a land agent's office which managed farms and estates on Dartmoor. I've relatives who farmed on the edge of the moor and hunted over it. What QB says is very nice but totally unrealistic.

I remember one day when it was cold but clear in Plymouth, just a couple of miles onto the moor and there was four inches of snow. Every rent day, there would be reports of sheep stealing! Many of the farmers are living on the edge. Hill farming is a way of life and those who do it are as tough as the stock they keep. Most might grumble -- but they wouldn't change it at the end of the day.

I now live in the Scottish Highlands where the hill areas are considerably bigger and life can be a good deal tougher than Devon. The first estate I worked on in the 1970's was reckoned to be over 100,000 acres (no one was actually sure!). My first day, I tripped over a frozen sheep, dead of course, but frozen into a solid block! I managed 66,000 acres more or less on my own before I retired. I don't think you'd be driving around that once a day to look at stock!

 

[Queenbee]

But they dont always all stay together, there are a number of reasons a pony or three will get split from the herd! Some herd dynamics get too big, they will then split into a series of smaller groups. A lame pony will not be able to keep up with the herd and be left behind, the same maybe with a pony foaling, or one getting caught in the boggy ground!
I understand what you mean, but it isnt as easy as keeping a pony at pasture, even if that pasture is huge!

while this is a fair point, my point is that these owners don't even seem to make an attempt at regularly checking any of their livestock... which is wrong, whichever way you cut it

 

[Queenbee]

QB what you seem to fail to understand about these horses is that they are effectively wild! They know the moors like no human ever would and they dont stay still so you would be going around in circles forever trying to find them. What you have also failed to answer on several of my post on other threads is how you would go about doing anything about a problem if one were to arise. THESE HORSES ARE NOT DOMESTIC HORSES you cannot simply walk up to them and catch them you would be lucky to get within a 1/4 of a mile of them certainly not close enough to check every lump bump or scratch. Oh and turning up to check them all daily would over time reduce their independence and make them more reliant on people which is the last thing that should be allowed to happen.

And HH what you seem to fail to understand is that these horses are OWNED by someone who is SUPPOSED to be responsible for them and ensure their WELFARE

 

[Rosehip]

RH this is entirely my view, I agree with you, if other livestock owners can do it, so can the owners of moorland herds. Just out of interest, what acreage do you keep your sheep on?

I just can't understand how anyone would have livestock of any sort and not check them??

We have about 400 ewes and lambs split into flocks in a 3 - 4 mile radius around our house. The general field size is about 20 acres, some paddocks more, some less, and we rotate stock to ensure correct stocking rates and to prevent worm resistance etc.

So much can happen to livestock within a 24hr period, farmers understand that stock, whether feral, semi feral or domesticated need to be observed and checked on a regular basis.
I think that much of the problem with these ponies is that the owners (some, not all) aren't true crofters any more, just people who have the right to graze horses, and don't have the knowledge to care for these animals correctly.

 

[Queenbee]

I just can't understand how anyone would have livestock of any sort and not check them??

We have about 400 ewes and lambs split into flocks in a 3 - 4 mile radius around our house. The general field size is about 20 acres, some paddocks more, some less, and we rotate stock to ensure correct stocking rates and to prevent worm resistance etc.

So much can happen to livestock within a 24hr period, farmers understand that stock, whether feral, semi feral or domesticated need to be observed and checked on a regular basis.
I think that much of the problem with these ponies is that the owners (some, not all) aren't true crofters any more, just people who have the right to graze horses, and don't have the knowledge to care for these animals correctly.

RH I think youve just hit the nail on the head, although id have to say its probably not just about the knowledge level, its about the general nature of the people... they just don't care. Days gone by there was a sense of responsibility on the part of such owners... now the ponies that were a meal ticket don't make the money they should and they don't bother to care for them as a result. There is nothing in this world that makes those ponies less entitled to proper care than any other horse. Natural selection my arse... its utter laziness, there is no reason that the owners/breeders cant all work together to regularly check the stock. And yes, in all probability they will probably not see all the ponies, but they would at least be seen to be bloody making an effort and taking their responsibility seriously.

 

[Rosehip]

Needing a 'like' button QueenBee!xx

 

[paddy555]

I just can't understand how anyone would have livestock of any sort and not check them??

We have about 400 ewes and lambs split into flocks in a 3 - 4 mile radius around our house. The general field size is about 20 acres, some paddocks more, some less, and we rotate stock to ensure correct stocking rates and to prevent worm resistance etc.

So much can happen to livestock within a 24hr period, farmers understand that stock, whether feral, semi feral or domesticated need to be observed and checked on a regular basis.
I think that much of the problem with these ponies is that the owners (some, not all) aren't true crofters any more, just people who have the right to graze horses, and don't have the knowledge to care for these animals correctly.

3/4 miles on Dartmoor is nothing. I used to take my horse for 12 mile canters. Over that distance I crossed 3 roads and a long way in the distance I could see odd newtake walls. If I had seen a pony in distress little could have been done. There is simply no way of driving a single mare on the open common. The number of horses and bikes needed to clear that common to get one mare in would be considerable. I don't think many of you have any idea of the scale of the problem.

There are undoubtedly problems with producing foals that go for lion meat as there is no market for them but that is a different issue.

OTOH the majority of the herds that I ride through each day are perfectly content. They may well have a better lifestyle than many domestic horses. They don't get shut in stables for long periods of time. The are not fat, EMS, laminitic animals, they are not pounded endlessly around shows, dressage arenas, horse walkers, bathed, trimmed, plaited, transported etc and all the other unatural things that are done to domestic horses.
If they are ill they get the chance to wander around and sort themselves out. They are not shut in a stable at 6pm, get colic and then someone finds them cast or in a heap 12 hours later when they have suffered greatly. They are not stuffed on grain and left for long periods with no food and ulcers.

I can think of one very steep valley close to us. Ponies graze down the valley sides. It is way too steep to ride down, take a quad down and all you could do would be to scramble down a slope, 1/4 mile long that is straight up and down. If you did that and found an injured pony the only way out would be a helicopter winch. It is difficult to see how you would get it to stand still long enough to get the harness on.

 

[Fii]

I just can't understand how anyone would have livestock of any sort and not check them??

We have about 400 ewes and lambs split into flocks in a 3 - 4 mile radius around our house. The general field size is about 20 acres, some paddocks more, some less, and we rotate stock to ensure correct stocking rates and to prevent worm resistance etc.

So much can happen to livestock within a 24hr period, farmers understand that stock, whether feral, semi feral or domesticated need to be observed and checked on a regular basis.
I think that much of the problem with these ponies is that the owners (some, not all) aren't true crofters any more, just people who have the right to graze horses, and don't have the knowledge to care for these animals correctly.

A twenty acre field is nothing compared to the moors, you can walk a twenty acre field or use a quade bike in next to no time, maybe these moor farmers need to buy helicopters because thats the only way you would get to cover the ground and see some ponies!
I agree with Paddy 555, you dont seem to grasp the scale of the problem!

I keep ponies on over 100 acres of common land, and believe me even in that small area it can be a nightmare to find one if it has strayed away from the group!!

 

[Piglet]

The answers on this post made me giggle, I live and ride in the moor and as far as I am concerned, most moor pony owners only really check their stock once a year, the rest of the time it is left to the public to monitor and report. Obviously there are some very good quality ponies on the moor owned by responsible owners, but they are mostly on the high moor