Cheeky Youngster!!! (sorry long)

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Amys_Babies

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I was just wondering if anyone else has had this problem or knows how to solve it?

My mum and Buddy have always got on fine and although she doesnt have much experience with horses she was doing a great job with holding Buddy for me whilst backing. I know that really i could have done with a more experienced handler but with work i only really see the lady on yard at weekends so wasnt really a option.

Buddy is usually ok with my mum, like he does play her up a bit but i think that is because i do all the work with him so sometimes he isnt really that keen on others handling him much. The only problem Buddy basically took the p*ss out my mum all night yesterday. She was been holding him when ive been mounting and he has been fine with her until now. But yesterday he decided he wasnt going to stand for her, when she told him to stand he just kept backing up with doesnt help when your trying to mount him. It wasnt just his behaviour it the school though, when we got back to the stable he tried to kick out at her and was throwing his head about and hit her.

I really dont understand this behaviour at all how can be fine with her one minute and the change? He seemed so upset aswell yesterday as kept coming to me for reassurance when i was mucking out. I just wondered if anyone would have any general ideas for why he has been like this. As i really dont understand it and im worrid incase it is going to stop me from backing him. I cant be on the floor to handle him and be on top of him, and having someone else hold him or back him really isnt a option...plus i want to back him myself as have been doing such a good job.

He isnt really a nasty horse or anything so why the behaviour change?
 
Maybe he's just trying it on, a little tired, or feeling a little cheeky, or just seeing how far he could push the boundaries before she sqaured him up. If your mum is happy to I would give it another go and just be firm with him, after all, he is only a youngster and it doesn't sound like he's being nasty.
 
Are you maybe doing too much too fast for him? He's only a baby and having read lots of your posts you've been doing quite a lot of work with him. Maybe you need to go back a couple of steps and proceed more slowly. If he's losing confidence in your mum then she's probably already lost a fair amount of confidence in him. Frustrating I know, but much better that you get it right from the start than cause yourself more problems later on.
 
Im only really backing him once or twice a week and am not pushing him at all as he is still so young. My idea was if he is willing to do then let him do it but if he doesnt then go back and build confidence. I held him whilst my mum got ready to mount him (though didnt actually sit on him) and he stood fine, when my mum held him he kept backing up.
I was just wondering is there something im not doing right? Like it could have been just one of those days with him but i have never seen him be like that towards anyone ever. If i was to go back to basics again for a week is there anything i could do to make him more trusting in my mum so that he behaves better for her.
As i dont mind going back at all as i dont really want to upset him at all. As man on yard said im lucky that he is calm and trusting and doesnt show any nasty signs when backing. He hasnt charge of with me at all and shown any signs of not wanting me on his back. If he needs reasurance then i will go back to basics and get him happy again. But should i include my mum into doing some the work to so that he gets more use to the fact she will want things from him 2?
 
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Maybe he's just trying it on, a little tired, or feeling a little cheeky, or just seeing how far he could push the boundaries before she sqaured him up. If your mum is happy to I would give it another go and just be firm with him, after all, he is only a youngster and it doesn't sound like he's being nasty.

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Lately he has been getting quite crafty really and is sussing things out really quickly. Last night i just thought really he was just trying it on a being a cheeky git with her. In the school its not like he is being nasty...really just winding her up seeing how far he could go. When i brought him last year he was a bit like this for a while seeing how far he could go with you but i did put a stop to it with him as i didnt want him turning into a older bigger horse with a horrible attitude. The way he acted to mum yesterday was just like he use to be like with me. I was thinking of having another go tonight to see whether he tries it again as it could have been a off day for him.
 
I think he is probably going through that stage of testing people out and seeing what he can/cant get away with. My horse does this to my OH and he is 15 (horse 15 not my other half!). OH is currently looking after Jake as I have a slipped disc.

As Scots said, try going back a few steps to give your mum confidence and Buddy too.

Hopefully, it is just a phase and he will grow out of it.
 
I usually do all the work myself and then she just holds him. Do you think it may be worth my mum having a go of doing some lunging or something with him just so he learns that he has got to listen to her to?
 
PS - maybe see if your mum would be willing to do some ground work with him such as getting him to move over to back up etc.

It helped doing this with my big bolshy beastie.
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What exactly are you doing when mounting him?, I know you said backing him but are you actually at the stage of getting on him or are you leaning over him, also not sure what age he is as I've not noticed in your other posts... but he could well be cutting some teeth and bit a bit grumpy with it too.

You may have to go over some ground work with him again or at least have you mum to do this so both of you have the same handling techniques and voice commands, don't let you mum get into conversations with your horse if you know what I mean, she only must speak to him when telling a command to avid mixed signals.

Keep everything low key, you may be better backing him in the stable if it is safe enough so its not really as much of an issue to your horse...going out into the school is exciting stuff, if you horse is a bit of a fidget bottom...(there all different) He must learn not to back off, if its just a fear thing then it will wear off, it its a naughty thing it will lead to other problems which no doubt is why you want to nip it in the bud.

Are you using a mounting block?...silly question but I didn't notice if you mentioned it.
 
Sorry Kenzo, yeah i have been using a mounting block and am now really at stage where im sitting on him walking him around a little and then getting back off.

He has never had a issue at all with me mounting him and my mum holding him. He seemed more unsure with me lying over him than when im sitting on him.

I was thinking of maybe getting my mom to do some ground work as have been adviced as it may be having someone else saying different things which is confusing him a little.

If it is fear then why now after a few weeks on being so happy with it all? He is 3 in a week, i know quite young but he was giving the signs to be ready and havent had any problems until now. I dont know if it is really a big problem or may be just a battle of wills and he not being keen on my mum bossing him around. If it that then the only thing i can really think that my mum can do is do more groundwork with him so that he learns to accept that he must do what she tells him. What you think?
 
My older horse has a tendancy to do this to other people who start to handle him a lot. He's been on and off box rest since the winter and my housemate would pop down to give me a hand - as Riv got used to her he started headbutting her out of the way, and refusing to stand unless it was me. We got to the point where he wouldn't even eat unless i gave him his food... I spent time with said friend (and a couple of others) getting them to do ground work with him, and being firm with him and he's come on leaps and bounds - I'd suggest that your mum spends some time with him to develop a bond so that he can take reassurance from her as well as from you - it seems like he's just young and a little unsure - sometimes it can take them a few weeks to realise whats going on...

Good luck with him!
 
In your initial post you mentioned:

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He seemed so upset as well yesterday as kept coming to me for reassurance when i was mucking out.

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Sounds to me like he's acting a bit off. He's still very young and is maybe finding even the small amount you are doing with him a bit daunting all of a sudden. If it were me, I'd go back a few steps and give him a bit of a break from the lunging and backing. He won't forget what you've done with him so far, but it will give him the chance to settle in his head before you start him again. If he's getting grouchy the last thing you want is for him to feel pushed to fly-off-the-handle and do something nasty. Better you avoid this scenario; back off slightly, let him relax and start again. I am sure he'll be absolutely fine and it's only a little blip he's going through.

Maybe your Mum could walk him out in hand if you've somewhere safe? Perhaps graze him in hand. Let him relax in her company again. Might help too
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Aha, so he isnt keen on your mum asking him things. I think you have hit the nail on the head, he sees you as head horse, he has seen/heard you give her advice and therefore thinks he is dominant over her!

She def needs to do ground work in him, in the stable or school, whichever she feels most comfortable in without you. If she is confident enough. If not with you there, but not giving instructions or eye contact.

I have noticed animals, particularly horses pick up on these things.
 
Thanks Riverboy, i think what has happened is maybe my mum has got her confidence with him so maybe is coming across more firmer with him which he wouldnt be used to so would wouldnt understand why she is being like that towards him. I might spend tonight doing groundwork with him but with my mum actually handling him so he learns to listen to her to. If he plays up then least i will know what the problem is as he is golden for me with groundwork.
 
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Aha, so he isnt keen on your mum asking him things. I think you have hit the nail on the head, he sees you as head horse, he has seen/heard you give her advice and therefore thinks he is dominant over her!

She def needs to do ground work in him, in the stable or school, whichever she feels most comfortable in without you. If she is confident enough. If not with you there, but not giving instructions or eye contact.

I have noticed animals, particularly horses pick up on these things.

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Thanks hb6, so what would you suggest i do tonight? I would like to see how he react to just listening to my mum without you being there like you said. Will probably do it in the school if my mum is ok with that, plus then as car is parked opposite school i can watch without him seeing that im there.
What would you think would be best for my mum to do with him to get him listening to her? Would you say to just do basic leading, and backing up and standing or to lunging?
 
When you mum is holding him, where is she holding him? if she holding your reins...therefore he is feeling her through his mouth as well as you?
just trying to establish the details as even the smallest things that you would not expect an older horse to bother about may be highly confusing or very frustrating for a youngster. A horses head is a sensitive part of his body, it can feel the smallest fly on it...now imagine what he can feel through the mouth etc

Did you say your horse turns 3 this week?, that is young age for them to deal with things mentally let alone physically, so many people bang on about letting them mature physically, they make look like a horse ready to begin with some work, but you have to be in tune with their minds too, just because a horse is ok with things, they push and do it bit more, still the horse is ok, again they do more...until they blow and its harder to reverse problems than it is to prevent them. I cant comment about your horse personally or what he's ready for so this is not a criticism...just valid point to remember.

Lunging/long reining/backing I personally think is too wishy washy, too much going on. Perfect one thing, move on to the next but take it all slowly. Not all horses that are broken in need to be long reined...or lunged, yes they all play a vital part and should come into practice at some stage but not at the same time, not at this age....some may disagree just my opinion.

It might not be any of these reasons however, just something to bare in mind.

Either way, hope it all goes well.
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Good idea, if you mum is happy in the school, for you to sit in the car. I would suggest the usual walking in hand, backing up when asked, moving over, hind legs as well as fore legs (I did this with my horse and now he moves over with a gentle pat and an 'over' either hind quarters or front whichever is in the way). In all directions.

This will improve his ground work, your mum's confidence and their bond.

I know you are doing things slowly and gently with him.
 
Thanks hb6 you've been a big help!!!

Yeah i will have a nice relaxful night in the car a leave my mum to it. He is quite good with moving over for me so he should be able to managed everything you have said. Will just have to see what he is like with my mum now.

Im taking things very slowly with him, lady on yard said you usually get them backed and riding away within a few weeks. Didnt think that was best with buddy, i think he has only really been so good because of the good bond we have and how much he trusts. Hopefully my mum doing some work with him will help him bond and trust her too. He is young i know but when there doing everything right you are going to move them on arent you. If he had behaved dreadfully i would have known he wasnt ready. I have just been backing him 2-3 days a week and walking him around a bit.

I will let you know how he gets on tonight...thanks again for your great advice!!!
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