Chepstow PN XC penalties??

dollyrocks02

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Hello again, god this HHO is getting more addictive than Facebook!! What do you think of this scenario?
I groomed for my friend at Chepstow in her first PN of the season on Sat. She did a better than usual dressage for her, clear SJ and clear XC - fantastic day - or so we thought!
We left before the results were up on Sat, but on checking the results today on the BE website it appears she got 60 XC pens She's emailled the sec to find out where these were accumulated, and she says that the pens were incurred at the sunken road, fence 13. My friend says yes the horse did hesitate slightly at the first part, a small log on top of a step, and stepped sideways then went, but he did not step back, neither did she turn away or cross her tracks.
The fence judges did not call to her to indicate they were recording a first refusal, or indeed 2nd refusal (do they have to do this? I've fence judged before and was told to always tell the rider you were recording, 1st, 2nd etc refusals.)
If the fence judges were being harsh she would expect 20 pens at worst - but 60? - are we being reasonable in thinking that was quite harsh?
She got time pens too, which she was expecting as the hilly terrain didn't really suit her horse and she was taking it steady, but only the same amount and less than some who had gone clear - so surely the horse can't have hesitated enough to incur 60 pens?
My friend is continuing discussions with the sec, she wouldn't have been placed, even with a xc clear, but it does leave you a bit deflated when you thought you'd had a nice double clear, and going on previous years performances could be in line for qualification for a PN3DE!
What do you think are the chances she could get her score amended to at least 20 pens?
Thanks for reading and your thoughts on this would be appreciated as although I kind of know what the outcome of this will be it would be nice to know what you think. At the end of the day the horse was a star and she was really pleased with how he went. Thanks.
 
There was a time I would have argued this until I was blue in the face.

Now I think I'd accept it as a bad day and move on - if it wouldn't have got her placed and even with 20pens won't count as a qualification for PN3DE, so just chalk it up to experience.

If it would affect a placing I'd query it, but if it won't then I'm afraid my feeling is now not to annoy people who can affect whether or not your next entry gets accepted!
 
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There was a time I would have argued this until I was blue in the face.

Now I think I'd accept it as a bad day and move on - if it wouldn't have got her placed and even with 20pens won't count as a qualification for PN3DE, so just chalk it up to experience.

If it would affect a placing I'd query it, but if it won't then I'm afraid my feeling is now not to annoy people who can affect whether or not your next entry gets accepted!

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Agreed. Must be our age
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That's such shame isn't it. I think we've all been in that sort of situation and I am a litle unclear about what the rules are although I don't think you are allowed to hesitate any more. It's not really a matter of stepping back. Of course if she ony hesitated momentairly then it seems harsh that she got 60 pens.
The course doesn't sound like ot was particularly simple so if she flew round that she's bound to get some clear rounds sounds like she'll get her qualifying rounds and should just chalk it up to experience.
 
That fence caught me out but I rode it like a muppet. I heard the fence judge call one stop so I circled and came again.
Personally I wouldn't complain but then it's not in my nature anyway. I'd be careful as like someone said Chepstow sec does a lot of events and you don't want to be black listed.
Move on and look forward to your next outing
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I asked for clarification over the rules as at a water jump last year my horse hesitated then leapt in and I thought it was unreasonable that I had 20 pens. The reasoning they use is loss of momentum. It is no longer acceptable not to move and then go. You have to keep going forwards. So if at a ditch and you have a spooky horse you are better to walk/trot to keep that momentum than stop and then go. I guess its easier to fence judge this fairly than one judge giving you 5 seconds and another just 2.
 
I was obviously very lucky then in the SLM intro last week - we hesitated for what felt like at least 3-5 secs at a ditch (didn't step forwards or backwards) and the commentator mentioned a 'hesitation' but we still got clear.
 
It sometimes depends where you are, ive had hesitations on Mac b4 at water but been fine, yet at Grt Witch Spider slightly hestitated at a fence then went and got 20pens, very frustrating!! But as said b4 I wouldnt argue it if you want to get in again!
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I've been given a stop when the horse hadn't - just ignored it. However sister Cath has argued two of hers and has had them both taken off.
 
I've done a bit of BE fence judging and the general advise given to fence judges is any stop in forwards momentum at a fence over 30cm is counted as a refusal, for fences under 30cm (i.e. water, drop, ditch) then provided the horse goes immediately forwards from a split second halt in momentum then it shouldn't be penalised, however if your horse had time to sidestep then that is more than a split second so really a refusal (can't comment on the second refusal though).
Obviously different judges see things differently but the general BE guidence is to be consistent on your fence throughout the day and if in doubt to award 20 penalties and to make a comment (the theory being that it is easier to remove the 20 than to add 20).
 
Well thanks everyone for your comments and opinions they make for interesting reading and put another perspective on it. It seems like I touched on a familiar subject which we have all experienced in some way or another!!
I think my friend is going to put it down to experience, she has many more events to do this year and her star boy jumped so well he's got more clear rounds to come! Onwards and upwards to Cleobury!!
Again, thanks for your responses:)
 
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