Child "Influencers" (Exploitation)

Cloball said:
I'm not sure Sam Fox's mother setting her up as a topless model, her father assaulting her and embezzling he money and being assault multiple times on a music video shoot counts as no harm.
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Agreed!
And then we've got those lovely parents of the two famous Only Fans stars, who are happy for their daughters to degrade themselves (was it 1000 in 24 hours? Not sure...)

It's all about the money. Parents farming out their children, whether it's the equestrian influencers or anything else - it's all about trying to accumulate wealth and never mind the risks.

Home tuition - as I've said, it varies greatly in quality but let's not pretend that learning is as simple as a child watching a video online. The reason we have teachers is that they actually interact with their pupils, check understanding, assess learning and then set the right tasks to promote progress. This is true of homeschooling - someone really needs to be the teacher and lots of parents buy in tutors.

An important point to consider regarding influencers is that the public only see what the parents want them to see. None of us knows what's really going on behind the scenes.
Perhaps it's all fine and dandy, perhaps it's not.
I maintain my view, that it shouldn't really be happening.
 
Nancykitt said:
Home tuition - as I've said, it varies greatly in quality but let's not pretend that learning is as simple as a child watching a video online. The reason we have teachers is that they actually interact with their pupils, check understanding, assess learning and then set the right tasks to promote progress. This is true of homeschooling - someone really needs to be the teacher and lots of parents buy in tutors.
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And there's all the social / team / life aspects of school that develop children outside of the academic sphere. Again, you can replicate that outside of a school environment, but it takes time, effort and commitment. Many home schoolers just don't.
 
FenrisW said:
I wonder if those of you who oppose children influencers or whatever they are called also oppose children being used to raise funds for charities or other causes? Is it just because the former are making money for themselves? If so, why should children work for nothing?

Why do people think that they know better than parents what is best for their children?

We have seen what happens when the state gets involved and children end up in 'care' where they are exploited for sex and no-one bothers to help them or their parents so why is the state better than parents?

Mobile phone panic? Why? Most families can control it and monitor their children's use. Remember that when comics came in they were going to prevent children reading, they were the end of civilisation. Parents wouldn't buy them. Schools confiscated them. Then it turned out that they actually motivated children to read . . .

Radio was terrible. Children reading comics and listening to their transistor radios under the bedclothes at night, how dreadful. Rock and roll was the music and work of the devil.

Doesn't matter what progress is made, it is hated and government wants to control it. Now people are refusing to update their phones because of the moves to control the internet. Why? Because government wants to prevent us all from reading and seeing items they disapprove of and their threatened legislation has led to phone companies demanding ID. Just wait until there are more data leaks or hackers get hold of your data.

We raised the age at which children can pose topless or post photos from 16 to 18 and yet all of those who made their fortunes and now have successful businesses and are wealthy say it did them no harm and made their futures. Think Sam Fox and Linda Lusardi.

Worse, newspapers blank out children's faces. So they are airbrushed out of history. No going back to look and see what they did in the past. Will they be happy about it in future?

So who do children belong to? The state? People who think they have the right to control what parents do with their children? Or the parents? Is the falling birthrate anything to do with the continued interference in family life?

Oh yes, home schooling. Nothing wrong with it. There is so much online these days, think Khan Academy for instance, that schools and universities will soon be redundant. Schools are really day care institutions to allow parents to go to work, but with robotics progressing at amazing rates that won't be needed any more.
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Who peed on your chips?? 😂

It’s a dangerous assumption to believe that every parent has the best interests of their children at heart. Having worked as a teacher I can categorically tell you that there are parents failing children all around us. Next time you drive past a school, I can guarantee that there are kids being educated there who witness regular Domestic abuse, have been physically abused by a family member, have been sexually abused by a family member, have been exploited, neglected… the list goes on.

Thankfully there are people and organisations out there who are trained to step in and help. So no, let’s not assume that every parent is fit for the job and should be left alone to do what they want. That would be a very dangerous thing indeed.

As for the rest of your rant, I can’t really be bothered to address the nonsense, but I haven’t read a barely-coherent ramble for a while on here and it did cheer me up no end 😂
 
JFTDWS said:
And there's all the social / team / life aspects of school that develop children outside of the academic sphere. Again, you can replicate that outside of a school environment, but it takes time, effort and commitment. Many home schoolers just don't.
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So, so many people who home educate would love to put their children in a school and see them thrive. Dropping off their child to have someone else educate them and receive back a happy, thriving, learning child would be a dream.

But sadly a dream is all it will remain.

If you were to be a fly on the wall listening to a group of home educating parents at a social gathering or group activity, you would hear probably 70% talking about their child’s school trauma. About children whose mental health have been so destroyed they had no choice but to take them out; about the months and years they took to recover.

My children are home educated. I am a teacher. I now tutor up to University level in my specialty and down to Reception for basic reading, writing, Maths. Many of my students are abandoned at school by the education system that should support them - EHCP? Full time hours? Lovely on paper but in reality this fully funded TA is never with the child. Speech therapy? Once every two weeks if you are lucky with no follow up at school. Achievement? I taught them to read; to write; gave them the skills to be able to do something at school. I pushed the parents to get sight assessed further or to access other services that were clearly needed but had not been picked up on. It is a job I love but it definitely highlights all the flaws in the system for those who cannot achieve on their own. Then there are the teenagers - at breaking point, parents desperate, lives and health in danger. I have so far seen them all succeed in the end - my role simply to keep their education on track while they recover - but school is not safe for everyone by a long way. That is never addressed though. It is easier to complain about those who leave the system than look at why they do - and attempt to fix it. Mostly because attempting to fix it would be wildly expensive.

This thread is supposed to be about influencers though. I don’t think that can be good for any child’s development - but it is hopefully only a small part of their everyday life if done well.
 
You can't tar all home educated families with the same brush. There is lots of negativity surrounding it. Of course there are occasional bad eggs, like in all walks of life.

I was home educated as a child. I was mostly self taught too using books and the internet. Went on to uni to finish a degree, masters and was offered full funding for a PhD. I was part of a home education group as a child and lots of those children went on to do very well. So it is not all running riot and flat earthers!

I was also on a livery yard during some of this time and I hated it. Hanging around with a load of mischievous kids was never my idea of fun. While there, I just wanted to enjoy time with my pony. I had a close group of friends who I saw regularly and that was enough for me. Not all children are the same!

I am definitely not saying I agree with putting your children online for the world to see, but want to share other experiences with home education.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
See my post #211 and actually read it, ref home schooling by 1 parent.
Actually, seeing what you've put, I'm guessing you must be a good friend of theirs....
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I do know people who home school well, but the problem is it takes a huge amount of time and effort to do that. Most people dont bother and ruin it for the ones that do. My friend took her daughter out of school because "she doesnt like it" and she does an hour a day on the internet, never really leaves her room and has zero interaction with other kids. The mum is delighted that she doesnt have to get up to take her to school. Even worse are the ones that cram their kids into a 15ft long van and homeschool them with "experiences". Some of those kids are older teens are are starting to come out and say how horrific their childhood was.
 
I was home schooled by my Mother, who was a qualified and experienced teacher. Somewhat different set up as we were living in the back of beyond in rural Sudan (1963). She set up a schoolroom in a cool part of the house, asked all the local village children if they fancied coming to school five mornings a week and pitched in to teach us all. Result, I was fluent in Arabic, (now sadly long forgotten) and the local kids gained a good basic grounding in English, Maths, Geography etc. I was very sad when we moved back to Khartoum and "my" school had to be disbanded.
 
ester said:
I don't think anyone's against home schooling or that it's sometimes needed more that doing so so that it means you have more time to take videos of your kid riding ponies might be a bit short sighted.
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Exactly.

I did some work a few years ago with pupils who were returning to mainstream school after homeschooling. Most of these came into 6th form having done well in GCSEs (but parents said that it had turned out to be very expensive because they bought in tutors). The students I worked with mostly adjusted well, but there were notable exceptions.
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but the landscape in schools has changed massively over the last 15 years or so and some parents have very good reasons for homeschooling, especially when children have special needs and aren't coping in a school that often doesn't/can't meet their needs, especially if it's part of an academy chain where academic results are everything. The new Ofsted framework is actually making this worse and we'll probably see an increase in home ed over the coming years.
In contrast, I've come across several families who took their children off roll, stating 'elective home education' (EHE) as the reason. The real reason was that they were going on a 6-month international jaunt and it was the easiest way to get the kids out of school without getting into any sort of trouble, alerting social services, etc. Once they declare EHE they are largely left alone, unless there are known safeguarding issues - and even then, authorities can be slow to get involved (or not get involved at all, hence the tragic death of Sara Sherif).

So although there can be very good reasons for homeschooling and it can sometimes be the best option, I can't endorse it when the main reason is that the child is essentially being farmed out as an 'influencer' for financial gain.
 
Going back to the original topic of this thread, could we put together a list of companies that use child influencers (it might be easier to pull together a list of those that don’t ..). If you decide not to buy something from a particular company because of their marketing practices then email/social post to explain why. If enough of us do it then it might make a small difference to their marketing strategy?
 
ester said:
I don't think anyone's against home schooling or that it's sometimes needed more that doing so so that it means you have more time to take videos of your kid riding ponies might be a bit short sighted.
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Exactly. Relevant point in bold.

JFTDWS said:
And there's all the social / team / life aspects of school that develop children outside of the academic sphere. Again, you can replicate that outside of a school environment, but it takes time, effort and commitment. Many home schoolers just don't.
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Muddy unicorn said:
Going back to the original topic of this thread, could we put together a list of companies that use child influencers (it might be easier to pull together a list of those that don’t ..). If you decide not to buy something from a particular company because of their marketing practices then email/social post to explain why. If enough of us do it then it might make a small difference to their marketing strategy?
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Yes! It will be quite a long list...

I can't see JwI (they've blocked me I think because I pointed out to Naylors that I wouldn't shop with them due to using child influencers). JwI did an advent calendar one year, so that alone is a list right there!

Naylors as of three weeks ago are still posting things from a UK 'family vlogger' type account so they can stay on the list.

LeMieux can go at the top of the damn list.

Equidry are on there.

Champion and Toggi ARE NOT on the list (for those in need of brands to still be able to shop with!)
 
maya2008 said:
So, so many people who home educate would love to put their children in a school and see them thrive. Dropping off their child to have someone else educate them and receive back a happy, thriving, learning child would be a dream.

But sadly a dream is all it will remain.

If you were to be a fly on the wall listening to a group of home educating parents at a social gathering or group activity, you would hear probably 70% talking about their child’s school trauma. About children whose mental health have been so destroyed they had no choice but to take them out; about the months and years they took to recover.

My children are home educated. I am a teacher. I now tutor up to University level in my specialty and down to Reception for basic reading, writing, Maths. Many of my students are abandoned at school by the education system that should support them - EHCP? Full time hours? Lovely on paper but in reality this fully funded TA is never with the child. Speech therapy? Once every two weeks if you are lucky with no follow up at school. Achievement? I taught them to read; to write; gave them the skills to be able to do something at school. I pushed the parents to get sight assessed further or to access other services that were clearly needed but had not been picked up on. It is a job I love but it definitely highlights all the flaws in the system for those who cannot achieve on their own. Then there are the teenagers - at breaking point, parents desperate, lives and health in danger. I have so far seen them all succeed in the end - my role simply to keep their education on track while they recover - but school is not safe for everyone by a long way. That is never addressed though. It is easier to complain about those who leave the system than look at why they do - and attempt to fix it. Mostly because attempting to fix it would be wildly expensive.

This thread is supposed to be about influencers though. I don’t think that can be good for any child’s development - but it is hopefully only a small part of their everyday life if done well.
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Relentless bullying that the child can't deal with is the only valid reason I can see for home ed. I was a target for bullies because I was small, non-conformist and a bit of a loaner but I had a nasty temper when pushed to my limit and a good scrap would put an end to it (I remember flooring a girl twice my size who targeted me every playtime in infant school, she never bothered me again). Despite that, I loved the social side of school, particularly boys (I feel sorry for kids in same sex schools!) But I was badly treated at home until my teens and that's the biggest worry, home ed can and is used to hide abuse.
 
Would also add, in addition to the dangers of being shared online in general, over-exposure of private life etc. I often think about the irl interaction between parents more absorbed in recording for content than they are in engaging with their children. Children anxious ahead of their jumping rounds or upset after a fall, need their parents to be present with them not filming it... for £££. It says what's more important than the in the moment interaction.

Or the weirdness of being made to re-do 'takes' of various things as part of your hobby, instead of just getting on with enjoying your time. Or having all your wins, losses, successes, failures, captured on camera and shared for the world to see for some dramatic 'ups and downs' narrative... for £££.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Children anxious ahead of their jumping rounds or upset after a fall, need their parents to be present with them not filming it... for £££. It says what's more important than the in the moment interaction.

Or the weirdness of being made to re-do 'takes' of various things as part of your hobby, instead of just getting on with enjoying your time. Or having all your wins, losses, successes, failures, captured on camera and shared for the world to see for some dramatic 'ups and downs' narrative... for £££.
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I stumbled across a group of 'followers' who said that they looked specifically for the videos where the children in question had fallen off and/or things have gone wrong.
There's something fundamentally unsavoury about this. Obviously falling and failing are all part of the sport (and the parents know this, and do, to some extent normalise it), but people searching specifically for fall videos is a bit of a red flag IMO.
 
Nancykitt said:
I stumbled across a group of 'followers' who said that they looked specifically for the videos where the children in question had fallen off and/or things have gone wrong.
There's something fundamentally unsavoury about this. Obviously falling and failing are all part of the sport (and the parents know this, and do, to some extent normalise it), but people searching specifically for fall videos is a bit of a red flag IMO.
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On that theme, I saw a riding school post that they were I think banning videos being posted by their clients because they'd had enough of kids/tweens putting together montages of themselves/others falling off, making RS ponies look 'spicy' (when probably weren't) etc. A sign of the sad times.
 
Nancykitt said:
I stumbled across a group of 'followers' who said that they looked specifically for the videos where the children in question had fallen off and/or things have gone wrong.
There's something fundamentally unsavoury about this. Obviously falling and failing are all part of the sport (and the parents know this, and do, to some extent normalise it), but people searching specifically for fall videos is a bit of a red flag IMO.
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This reminds me of a situation at a previous livery yard I was on. A young teenage girl transitioned from ponies to horses and her parents brought her a 15.1hh gelding. A few of the ‘ladies’ on the yard decided the horse was going to be too much for this child and were very gleeful about going to watch her first ride so they could see her fall off.
The child was 13.
Some human beings are vile.

As it was, the horse was impeccably behaved and looked after that teenager until she eventually gave up horses in her late teens.
 
teapot said:
On that theme, I saw a riding school post that they were I think banning videos being posted by their clients because they'd had enough of kids/tweens putting together montages of themselves/others falling off, making RS ponies look 'spicy' (when probably weren't) etc. A sign of the sad times.
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Uh, yeah, that seems to be a thing. One of the kids at my yard (she's like 11ish) was very carefully setting up her phone to take a video of her galloping her pony around the arena, screaming like a banshee, pretending the (saint of a) pony was taking off with her and she was terrified. Then she'd get off the pony (who'd stand like the saint he is), faff with the phone, and do another take. Needless to say, the slightly sharper horse I was riding did not appreciate this. I asked what she was doing, and she said it was for Tik Tok. Making it look like you're being run away with for the social media hits. What? I was like, how about don't do that when other people are in the arena, because we might actually end up being run away with, and it's really not amusing. She took it on board and knocked it off, but Jesus. This is what wee kids are getting up to these days?

Someone should take smartphones away from everyone under the age of 40.
 
teapot said:
On that theme, I saw a riding school post that they were I think banning videos being posted by their clients because they'd had enough of kids/tweens putting together montages of themselves/others falling off, making RS ponies look 'spicy' (when probably weren't) etc. A sign of the sad times.
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yes I saw that too.
 
teapot said:
On that theme, I saw a riding school post that they were I think banning videos being posted by their clients because they'd had enough of kids/tweens putting together montages of themselves/others falling off, making RS ponies look 'spicy' (when probably weren't) etc. A sign of the sad times.
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From a safeguarding point of view I think this is really sensible. Not just the posting each other falling off/doing stupid things for the camera to post online as in @Caol Ila example, but just putting each other out there online.



I'm fairly sure a number of these fan accounts with compilations of HW, commenting love hearts on an ad for pyjamas and lip gloss that gave me the ick for example, are not children.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
From a safeguarding point of view I think this is really sensible. Not just the posting each other falling off/doing stupid things for the camera to post online as in @Caol Ila example, but just putting each other out there online.



I'm fairly sure a number of these fan accounts with compilations of HW, commenting love hearts on an ad for pyjamas and lip gloss that gave me the ick for example, are not children.
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I imagine that parents have some awareness of what these kids are up to online. But maybe not. I don't know. As someone who does not have children, I have no idea how hard or easy it is to supervise your kid's internet activities these days. When I was a tween/teen, we had a single shared family computer on a dial-up connection. My brother, at about age 14, got in trouble for looking at porn because it popped up on the browser history. LOL.

A riding school has more control over the filming of their horses, but in my case, it was the kid filming herself and her own pony, and the only other person in the school at the time was me. Parents are meant to be supervising kids under 16, but they often go off and do stable jobs or whatever while kids ride.

I had vague thoughts of approaching mum and saying, "Do you know what your kid's doing on the internet?" But I didn't see her (it's a big yard, and they are in a different stable block) for a few days, and then it kind of went out of my head until I saw teapot's post in this thread.
 
Unfortunately, I dont think the love of seeing things go wrong is confined to chldren, although I think its more problematic with children. Its why people do compilation videos of all the falls etc from Badminton and other major events. I have a fb page for my business, and I post videos of my own horses, and without fail if I post a video of anything going wrong it'll have way more views/engagement than a video of everything going right. I'm old and certainly no influencer, I post things primarily for my clients, and I like to be honest, so I'm happy to show the good and the bad, and it can then be a helpful discussion about how to handle it when things dont go as planned, and it shows that training isnt always linear. But I always find it mildly depressing how people seem to like the bad stuff the most.
 
daffy44 said:
Unfortunately, I dont think the love of seeing things go wrong is confined to chldren, although I think its more problematic with children. Its why people do compilation videos of all the falls etc from Badminton and other major events. I have a fb page for my business, and I post videos of my own horses, and without fail if I post a video of anything going wrong it'll have way more views/engagement than a video of everything going right. I'm old and certainly no influencer, I post things primarily for my clients, and I like to be honest, so I'm happy to show the good and the bad, and it can then be a helpful discussion about how to handle it when things dont go as planned, and it shows that training isnt always linear. But I always find it mildly depressing how people seem to like the bad stuff the most.
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Not a new phenomenon though given the thrills and spills video series in the 90s
 
ester said:
Not a new phenomenon though given the thrills and spills video series in the 90s
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I totally agree, unfortunately I think its human nature, its just so much worse when its a child. Either children putting themselves in danger to get views/likes or parents exploiting their influencer children's pain/problems.
 
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