Childhood horse being sold, but it has box feet, opinions?

[PingPongPony]

Hello everyone,
I need you all lovely people to tell me whether my emotional attachment to this horse is completely clouding my judgement.
So the history:
I learnt to ride when I was 7 on a 16.2hh cart horse type, mare. A year before that, she gave birth to a lovely colt, called Viking.
Once Viking was broken in, I moved onto him. Me and my family have moved away and so I only saw Viking once a year for the last 7 years.
So the facts:
He's a gelding, 1/2 trakehner (sire) and 1/2 some sort of chunky draft horse (dam).
He's 13 years old
18.2hh or thereabouts
He's only ever been a hack, light schooling, he does have a pretty good jump on him, easily popping 1.10m as long as you come in a straight line, he'll sort out the rest.
He's too clever for his own good, lets all the horses out of the fields/stables etc on a daily basis, so far only thing that stopped him is a padlock, proper heavy duty one. But then he just breaks the fence :/
He has 2 box front feet, one is worse the the other, and for the past 2 years he has been on and off lame because of them so not been doing much. I do however know that the farrier they use is absolutely awful, I wouldn't let him anywhere near my horses!
He is in Poland :/
They're asking £350 for him.

My questions:
Am I stupid even considering buying him and bringing him here?
Are box feet a really big issue or could they be fixed with time and a good farrier and diet?

My plan atm is; to ask a friend of mine to take lots of photos of all 4 of his feet/legs and a few of his conformation, show the photos to my farrier here, and see what he says, I appreciate he won't be able to tell 100% without seeing his feet in real life, but he can give me an idea of whether it's a maybe or a definite no no!

Any ideas, thought, suggestions and box foot stories all appreciated!

 

[ester]

How much money do you have to sink into an emotional decision?
Is he what you would be looking for anyway?

 

[be positive]

At 13 years, 18.2 and lame with a known conformational problem I suspect it is far too late for a decent farrier/ diet to have any influence, it would be a long journey for such a big lame horse to undertake and the kindest thing may be to offer to help in some way at that end rather than subject him to moving and finding it is going to end badly, maybe not what you want to hear but probably realistic, if he was younger and smaller I may feel differently.

 

[Clannad48]

To be brutally honest the answer to your first question is yes. Your emotional attachment in my opinion is definitely clouding your thoughts and judgement. I think 'be positive' says it all, it would be a long hard journey for such a horse with the issues it has. It is not just the initial cost - there would be the transport, repair costs to fencing in the future and possible long term farrier costs.

 

[PingPongPony]

Deep down I do know it's unrealistic the only thing that's pushing me to consider it is that he will be sold, whether i like it or not, and I just don't want him to suffer with someone who will try to work him despite the lameness, or who will lock him up in a stable etc. his future concerns me. Tbh I'd be happier if he was being put down as i'd know he wouldn't be unhappy, hurting, neglected etc.his future atm is so uncertain!

 

[crabbymare]

Do you have the money to be able to buy him and have him pts by someone out there? that may put your mind at rest? otherwise I would not be touching him I'm afraid

 

[be positive]

Do you have the money to be able to buy him and have him pts by someone out there? that may put your mind at rest? otherwise I would not be touching him I'm afraid

That would be the best outcome and what I had in mind when I posted, if your friend is there and could arrange to see it through on your behalf it is probably the kindest thing to do.

 

[rowan666]

have they had his lameness investigated? often (unless born with) other under lying lameness issues are what actually cause feet to become boxed not box feet actually causing the lameness or so i have been led to believe? could you afford to have him x rayed etc and get a vets opinion on what causes the lameness? a good barefoot trimer/EP can work wonder although not miracles so i wouldnt say point blank no before you knew what exactly the issue was, has his lameness definatly not been caused by something simple like absesses or bad farrier?

 

[PolarSkye]

Hello everyone,
I need you all lovely people to tell me whether my emotional attachment to this horse is completely clouding my judgement.
So the history:
I learnt to ride when I was 7 on a 16.2hh cart horse type, mare. A year before that, she gave birth to a lovely colt, called Viking.
Once Viking was broken in, I moved onto him. Me and my family have moved away and so I only saw Viking once a year for the last 7 years.
So the facts:
He's a gelding, 1/2 trakehner (sire) and 1/2 some sort of chunky draft horse (dam).
He's 13 years old
18.2hh or thereabouts
He's only ever been a hack, light schooling, he does have a pretty good jump on him, easily popping 1.10m as long as you come in a straight line, he'll sort out the rest.
He's too clever for his own good, lets all the horses out of the fields/stables etc on a daily basis, so far only thing that stopped him is a padlock, proper heavy duty one. But then he just breaks the fence :/
He has 2 box front feet, one is worse the the other, and for the past 2 years he has been on and off lame because of them so not been doing much. I do however know that the farrier they use is absolutely awful, I wouldn't let him anywhere near my horses!
He is in Poland :/
They're asking £350 for him.

My questions:
Am I stupid even considering buying him and bringing him here?
Are box feet a really big issue or could they be fixed with time and a good farrier and diet?

My plan atm is; to ask a friend of mine to take lots of photos of all 4 of his feet/legs and a few of his conformation, show the photos to my farrier here, and see what he says, I appreciate he won't be able to tell 100% without seeing his feet in real life, but he can give me an idea of whether it's a maybe or a definite no no!

Any ideas, thought, suggestions and box foot stories all appreciated!

In my experience (my boy is Polish and has boxy feet) that way potential heartbreak lies.

Honestly, a big body (18.2 trakehner cross) on little feet is a recipe for trouble . . . sidebone (at a minimum), navicular syndrome, not to mention arthritis and problems higher up (kissing spine, supraspinous ligament, SI, etc.). I am not a vet . . . but I do have a horse with these issues . . . I wouldn't trade away a single day I've had with him (heartbreak and all) - I love the very bones of him - but he's held together with gaffer tape and baler twine and has been for a while and he's a walking vet's bill. I have probably spent three times what I paid for him in vet bills - some due to his uncanny ability to self harm - but most due to his conformation.

Viking might be relatively cheap to buy, but I'll be willing to lay good money that he won't be cheap to keep. I'm the worst person to ask - because I fell in love with Kali the moment I saw him and (inconveniently as it happens) ignored his conformation faults and the problems that inevitably came with them - but if I were a rational, unemotional person I wouldn't buy him again.

I'm sorry - that might not be what you wanted to hear . . . but it's honest and well meant.

P

 

[PingPongPony]

no investigation was ever done.
he was born with 1 slight box foot, over the years, the awful farrier trimmed the other front foot to match the box foot rather than correct the box foot. He has been fully sound until approx 2 years ago. he was jumping, schooling, hacking and never lame. Something (don't know what because I don't see him often enough) changed 2 years ago, and he has been on and off lame since, what i mean by that is he'd be fine for 1-2months so they'd ride him, then he'd go lame and have a monthish off, and same thing over and over :/

 

[be positive]

2 years ago would be the classic age to start showing some arthritic changes, going sound with rest then lame with work is normal, it could be anything but more than likely degenerative, ringbone, coffin joint, sidebone, possibly all could be the cause and at that size he will really feel the slightest twinge, poor chap I guess the veterinary care is nowhere near what we are used to and the farriers will be less qualified and just do what they think is right.

 

[PolarSkye]

2 years ago would be the classic age to start showing some arthritic changes, going sound with rest then lame with work is normal, it could be anything but more than likely degenerative, ringbone, coffin joint, sidebone, possibly all could be the cause and at that size he will really feel the slightest twinge, poor chap I guess the veterinary care is nowhere near what we are used to and the farriers will be less qualified and just do what they think is right.

This.

P

 

[Spotsrock]

I would see what farrier says and price up transport costs without getting heart set on it. I'm aware farriery and the way of keeping differs greatly in Europe and that may make a massive difference to his prospects. We had a hack at a trekking centre with a box foot who was fab with a special shoe. That said, 'no foot, no horse' is a saying for a reason.

How deep is the emotional attachment? Could you give up a competition prospect in order to have him? I wanted a 15.2 push button jumper with or without issues and I ended up with a 16.3 ottb who doesn't do jumping and prefers stressage. I've had to shelve what I wanted to have my big bug but it's worth it so far.

What would you be giving up and what would you be left with? And would viking be worth it?

 

[shetland pony]

I don't know what the travel costs are, but if you can afford, his purchase price isn't that bad, and some minor investigations, see whether fixable or not, if fixable then try if you can, if not is he field sound on painkillers, have the money put to side for pts, when needed, not the best outcome, but you can guarantee his future, could be better than being worked, being in pain. Surely some strong fence backed up with good electric will keep him in? If you can afford it I would, if not will you be worrying about him in a month? a year? 5 years? Will you regret not doing it? Sorry for confusing you even more, hope it all works out, and sorry you and he are in this situation.

 

[Luci07]

If you can afford him as a field ornament or have the money to put him down if need be then I would go against the grain and say get him. This is not being logical, this is response to your emotional desire! Write down ALL the costs that could be involved and the worst scenario so you be sure you can afford him before you do this though.i am assuming that the £350 is meat money? Because asking you to pay for a lame horse is a tad cheeky otherwise.

 

[JosieB]

Same as above.. if you can afford it, bring him here and see, good transporter will look after him on the way..

 

[Archangel]

If it feels right then do it but be realistic and accept that this might be an expensive itch to scratch. I have taken on a horse for sentimental reasons, on the one hand I'm glad I did it, on the other goodbye enough money for a deposit for a house!

 

[touchstone]

Will you regret more not getting him? I think if that is the case then set yourself a limit financially and if no improvement is seen then make the decision to either retire, as it sounds as if he is field sound, or pts. I'd be prepared for the heartbreak of losing him if you do take him on, but at least you would know what happened to him.

 

[misskk88]

I was with you, until you mentioned the on/off lameness and it not being investigated or diagnosed. It is a long, potentially costly, and potentially an ultimately unsuccessful road you are putting yourself on... Be prepared for that.

I have had a horse for the past 4 years that has been on and off lame. Slightly different scenario, but she would be sound for ages, then it would creep in again and be gone within a few days. She was however staying sound in work. Vets thought wear and tear from her competition days before I bought her and arthritic changes, so I have managed her accordingly, but it seriously restricted the work we did, particularly in the last couple of years.

I have just made the decision to retire her, because the lameness is becoming more persistent and she is no longer staying sound in work. It is a horrible decision to make, and vets will be out to check she is comfortable enough to enjoy a summer retired. I am dreading the day I decide PTS, but it will be in her best interests.

It is heart breaking, and I can only imagine what stress an 18.2h cross breed has on its feet and legs, particularly with box feet, which a farrier has done no favours for. It is traumatic when things don't work out as planned, or you are constantly having to monitor their comfort and welfare, especially when you know they are in some amount of pain. It can, and will, become an absolute money pit.

All I would say, is that whilst we are thinking with our heads as an unbiased voice because we have no emotional attachment, if you feel that you have the time, money, and land/livery in order to cater for your childhood horse, then you have to make the decision that you feel most comfortable with. As others have said, the other option to secure his future is to buy and then PTS.

Hope you manage to make a decision you are happy with OP.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I don't know what the travel costs are, but if you can afford, his purchase price isn't that bad, and some minor investigations, see whether fixable or not, if fixable then try if you can, if not is he field sound on painkillers, have the money put to side for pts, when needed, not the best outcome, but you can guarantee his future, could be better than being worked, being in pain. Surely some strong fence backed up with good electric will keep him in? If you can afford it I would, if not will you be worrying about him in a month? a year? 5 years? Will you regret not doing it? Sorry for confusing you even more, hope it all works out, and sorry you and he are in this situation.

This

 

[Annagain]

Yes it's affecting (I wouldn't necessarily say clouding) your judgement, but that doesn't mean buying him would be the wrong thing to do.

You know the problems. You know what it will cost you to get him to you and you know that it could potentially end in tears. If we all bought horses purely based on logic, none of us would do it!

If he means that much to you and you can afford it, why not do it? As long as you're prepared to pay £350 to buy him, more to get him home and are then prepared to have him either as a field ornament or PTS if you can't get him right (and I'm sorry to say I suspect you won't get him right) and the happiness you'll get from him will outweigh the potential heartache then go for it.

A while ago the riding school my first (loan) pony was sold to 20 years ago was under threat of closure. He was 27 at the time so had no hope of another home. I had no use for him (too small for me and no little people for him) My yard is set up for big horses with decent, rich grazing that meant keeping a 27yr old Section B with cushings would be a nightmare but I was straight on the phone telling them I wanted him to come to me when they closed. Luckily, the riding school had a reprieve and he lived out his days there. I had said I'd have him to retire too but he was PTS when he went downhill very suddenly, all in a matter of days.

 

[be positive]

This horse is a big, lame horse at the moment based in Poland, not just up the road but around 1000 miles away, not a short journey or an inexpensive one, at a rough guess probably in excess of £1k, if he is passed as fit to travel he will find the journey a struggle even in a pro transporter, if his feet hurt they are at risk of stress laminitis from traveling so far, it is easy to tell the OP to go with her heart but as a student it is going to be a very expensive exercise that may end very badly before he even gets the original lameness investigated.
If and when he arrives there are all the normal things to consider, livery, he sounds as if he may not be the easiest to keep in a normal DIY yard with his antics, investigating the lameness will not be covered by insurance, it is likely to be "treatable" but not cured by the treatment so where do you draw the line after £1k of investigations? after the next lot of treatment? Michens horse Torres cost in the region of £6k before she called it a day, it is very hard to stop once started when you can see signs of improvement, it is very easy to say give him a chance but I am not sure it is in his best interests to do so and very likely to not be in the OP's best interests to take him on, the kindest thing would be for her to send money to pay for him to be pts without undergoing a potentially traumatic journey first.

 

[MagicMelon]

At 13 years, 18.2 and lame with a known conformational problem I suspect it is far too late for a decent farrier/ diet to have any influence, it would be a long journey for such a big lame horse to undertake and the kindest thing may be to offer to help in some way at that end rather than subject him to moving and finding it is going to end badly, maybe not what you want to hear but probably realistic, if he was younger and smaller I may feel differently.

I agree with this. If he's been badly trimmed / shod all these years then the damage is done and will be causing issues from now on as you have already seen through his lameness. I've got a 17.2hh who came to be with a club foot, farrier sorted the hoof to the point that it actually looked very nearly like a normal hoof (over months) but the horse did go mechanically lame the year after - he and the vet believe due to his foot being left for so long as it was (and he was 15 then). I'm now left with a very expensive, big field ornament! Should I have taken him on when I knew he had slight lameness issues? Probably not, but I did let my heart rule my head and I'm glad I'm here for him.

The size thing does play a big factor IMO, and at your ones age I think he's basically a ticking bomb as well and you'll then also end up with an expensive field ornament... if you have the money / resources / time to cater for this then by all means go for it (I probably would if money wasn't an issue!) but otherwise I don't really see the point...

 

[PingPongPony]

Thank you everyone for your reply. Quite honestly, if I won the lottery tomorrow, he would be on the first lorry coming over this way. But I realistically don't have the time or money, I'm not looking to buy my own for another 4-5years, and yes he would be an expensive pet, he lives off fresh air fortunately, but his fence breaking is an issue and would cost me a fortune, he's not really suited to a normal livery yard because of this, so finding somewhere to keep him would again be a fairly big problem in itself.
Unfortunately they will not PTS, they think he'll make someone a lovely companion so PTS is out of the question; if he was mine and I couldn't afford to keep him any longer and he wasn't fixable, i think the kindest thing would be to PTS, but he's not mine, so I can't decide that for them I just hope that whoever buys him next will do the right thing by him
And just because i'm feeling all emotional, he're my favourite picture of me on him, i was probably about 14 at the time