Childhood pony - PTS advice or opinions :(

[WillowTree21]

Hello all,

Its with a very heavy heart I have decided to post..

My childhood pony is 21, he has suffered with laminitis for many year & also cushings, we have managed this with medication & he has had a very long retirement.

Every so often maybe a handful of times of the years he has gone down hill dramatically, then recovered.

But although a few weeks ago he was happy cantering & bucking around he has gone down hill, with the ground hard & the spring grass coming through he can barley move without bute morning & night.

I always said I don’t want him to suffer or be in pain & when the time comes I will do the right thing..

But I can’t help but think in the back of my head that he will pull through again this time after some medication from the vet (apparently there is a new medicine available that is like bute). But I also think is it unfair to keep trying to medicate an elderly pony, as we all know they can’t tell us how they feel, so is it time?

I know I have to make the decision but any experiences or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

FYI, the vet is coming out to evaluate.

Thank you

 

[PapaverFollis]

It's really hard when they are up and down like that I think. You have to consider that the pony has no understanding that he will pull through each bad episode though, so during a time when he's having such difficulties despite the bute he doesn't know it's temporary. I always think that for a prey animal that must be very stressful. (FWIW I would be more willing to keep a dog going that was up and down, if the ups were happy for them, because I think they won't feel the same level of stress with the bad times).

If it helps at all I find the anticipation of the thing is much worse that the event itself and with the old guy who had been up and down for a while having him PTS felt like a huge weight being lifted. Terribly sad too of course. But it was good knowing he wouldn't be in pain or sad and stressed ever again.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What medication is he currently on?

 

[WillowTree21]

What medication is he currently on?

He’s on prascend daily & bute when needed.

 

[WillowTree21]

It's really hard when they are up and down like that I think. You have to consider that the pony has no understanding that he will pull through each bad episode though, so during a time when he's having such difficulties despite the bute he doesn't know it's temporary. I always think that for a prey animal that must be very stressful. (FWIW I would be more willing to keep a dog going that was up and down, if the ups were happy for them, because I think they won't feel the same level of stress with the bad times).

If it helps at all I find the anticipation of the thing is much worse that the event itself and with the old guy who had been up and down for a while having him PTS felt like a huge weight being lifted. Terribly sad too of course. But it was good knowing he wouldn't be in pain or sad and stressed ever again.

Thank you, a perspective I haven’t thought about.
Such a hard decision, I just want to do right by him.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well, he seems to be on the appropriate medication (though maybe the prascend dose could be upped if the ACTH levels are no longer controlled), but he can't carry on as he is.

You say there is spring grass. Most of us here in the UK are in a drought situation, and there is very little spring grass.

Unless your vet comes up with a drastic solution, or perhaps finds an abscess, it would not be fair to keep a crippled old pony going on. Make the decision sooner rather than later.

 

[Roxylola]

Animals don't look back or forward. All your pony knows is that right now he's in pain. I don't think there's a wrong decision here I also don't necessarily think there is an easy one. If I could confidently resolve the pain quickly I'd take that route but otherwise I think I'd PTS

 

[WillowTree21]

Well, he seems to be on the appropriate medication (though maybe the prascend dose could be upped if the ACTH levels are no longer controlled), but he can't carry on as he is.

You say there is spring grass. Most of us here in the UK are in a drought situation, and there is very little spring grass.

Unless your vet comes up with a drastic solution, or perhaps finds an abscess, it would not be fair to keep a crippled old pony going on. Make the decision sooner rather than later.

We’re lucky or unlucky..But we have quite a lot of spring grass where I am. We only have two ponies so our paddocks recover well from the winter.

Yes I agree with you, it’s not fair to see him struggle. The vet is due to be coming tonight so I will see what she has to say.

Our old vet (who passed away) was old school, very open & honest/blunt so I really appreciated his opinion. I don’t know his replacement as well, but will see what she has to say.

Thanks

 

[ester]

While there might not be masses of spring grass but the lami app has been on red for most of the country for the last 3 weeks.

It is tricky to decide when to call it, I would always have a limit of time in my head. We had an issue a few summers ago and was desperate for the ground to soften up to show us what we were really dealing with (and had he been the same the following summer he would have been PTS).

Because he lives the other side of the country with mum she very much knows my opinion on the situ if he does get lami, he is micromanaged while still giving quality of life but it's so painful for them and they have no concept that they will 'get better' if that was a diagnosis that would be the decision made for me - he is 28 now though.

 

[misst]

Animals don't look back or forward. All your pony knows is that right now he's in pain. I don't think there's a wrong decision here I also don't necessarily think there is an easy one. If I could confidently resolve the pain quickly I'd take that route but otherwise I think I'd PTS

This I am afraid every time. We lost our 27 yo mare who was my daughters first "proper" pony to laminitis. She was an amazing girlie and my daughter had always hoped to have her at her wedding. It wasn't to be though. Heartbreaking though it is the fact you are writing this suggests you have made the right decision already.

 

[Prancerpoos]

So sorry to hear that, it is awful seeing them in pain. As someone said in a previous post, if you have got to the stage where your are thinking about PTS then it is probably the right time. That doesn’t make it any easier though.

 

[honetpot]

I always send them on their way on a good day, because that is the day you remember. I have a couple of pictures from our old ponies good days, and to an on looker many people would have thought, why is it their last day? I do not want to put them or me though a debilitating illness that could have been avoided. I have had two PTS as an emergency, one with colic, and it those images and feeling that are the most difficult to get over.

 

[splashgirl45]

quality of life is the most important thing, IMO....if he has had a long retirement i would PTS as it sounds like he will keep on getting laminitis and will be suffering. my cushings mare was 25 when she went a bit footy and vet said it was the beginnings of laminitis as she was on 4 prascend daily and her levels were still rising, i only got the vet to confirm what i thought and i was determined that she wasnt going to spend the rest of her life in a stable or hardstanding with no grass. she was buted up for the weekend and was PTS on the monday, after it was done i felt that i was in shock as i had been on the verge of PTS fpr 6 months but i know it was the right thing for her, if not for me....

 

[WillowTree21]

Just to update you all, I’ve just got in from seeing the vet, she has said his cushings seems under control but that she wouldn’t want to increase his dosage any more than he’s already on.

She’s suggested an alternative to bute, I can’t remember the name..But has said two bute a day won’t be doing his liver any good. She also mentioned about having frog support (farrier is due tomorrow) I will speak to him because he is very honest. The vet wants to speak to the farrier tomorrow to discuss the situation.

I had a very open conversation with her & said I don’t want to keep throwing solutions his way, until potentially his pedal bone sinks & he’s in unbearable pain.

 

[ycbm]

It can be helpful with vets (who are no longer old- school and blunt) to ask "what would YOU do if this pony was yours? "

It doesn't sound like he should be being allowed any grass, in which case his quality of life is questionable, and personally I would let him go before your hand is forced by his condition.

It must be hard for you seeing your childhood pony like this, but in the end, the hardest thing of all is also the kindest.
.

 

[MurphysMinder]

My daughters pony had Cushings for years which was managed well with prascend. However the last couple of years she had more laminitic episodes, this time last year she also had a real problem with a locking stifle, so we had the situation that if she had laminitis she couldn't really be stabled (this combined with the fact she would be in isolation if stabled). She had a good summer and then September last year became very sore so the decision was made to let her go, she was on 4 bute a day over the weekend to make sure she was comfortable and she was pts on the monday It was very hard, we had owned her for 25 years, but it was the best for her. It sounds as if you are approaching a similar situation with your pony, I think you have to consider quality of life, and with all my animals I use the maxim "better a month too soon than a day too late ".

 

[Birker2020]

She’s suggested an alternative to bute, I can’t remember the name..But has said two bute a day won’t be doing his liver any good..

Was it danillon, that is kinder to the stomach than bute and doesn't cause as many cases of ulcers, its also more palatable?

Mines been on 1/2 sachet of bute for about 5 years going to 1 sachet for a couple of years and now 1.5 sachets over a year ago. I will start questionning when 2 or above whether its fair to keep her going, to be fair she is 700kg so it's not a huge dose, but two sachets for your pony sounds quite a lot of maintenance.

 

[WillowTree21]

It can be helpful with vets (who are no longer old- school and blunt) to ask "what would YOU do if this pony was yours? "

It doesn't sound like he should be being allowed any grass, in which case his quality of life is questionable, and personally I would let him go before your hand is forced by his condition.

It must be hard for you seeing your childhood pony like this, but in the end, the hardest thing of all is also the kindest.
.

I did ask what she would do, currently she thinks it’s not at a point where he needs to be PTS.

Farrier has been out today & said the same, he’s been worse & the pain isn’t due to the pedal bone rotating (from assessing him without x rating).

I’m going to get him some boots & have some putty put in them for cushioning on his front feet, he has bruising on one hoof & mild laminitis. As I thought a combination of the ground hardening & the spring grass, that seems to be the problem.

As you say quality of life is important & I don’t want to have him stabled or restricted to a tiny area.

So the plan is get some boots, try this new medication that’s better for him than bute & hope he pulls through & can enjoy spring /summer.

Thanks

 

[Iznurgle]

The BHS have Friends at the End, a support system for making the decision to PTS and for coping through it. Obviously speak to your vet, but they also have a quality of life evaluator which may help you make the decision. I know it's an incredibly difficult decision, but it could well be the kindest thing you can do for your pony.

https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-work/welfare/our-campaigns/friends-at-the-end

 

[splashgirl45]

for an elderly pony i wouldnt be worried about the effect of bute on the liver, all drugs effect the organs and its likely the laminitis will get him before the effects of the drug on his liver. please look at his quality of life when you are making your decisions , better to have a shorter better life than longer restricted one. , i know its difficult but you have to ask, am i keeping him going for me?

 

[Birker2020]

I did ask what she would do, currently she thinks it’s not at a point where he needs to be PTS.

Farrier has been out today & said the same, he’s been worse & the pain isn’t due to the pedal bone rotating (from assessing him without x rating).

I’m going to get him some boots & have some putty put in them for cushioning on his front feet, he has bruising on one hoof & mild laminitis. As I thought a combination of the ground hardening & the spring grass, that seems to be the problem.

As you say quality of life is important & I don’t want to have him stabled or restricted to a tiny area.

So the plan is get some boots, try this new medication that’s better for him than bute & hope he pulls through & can enjoy spring /summer.

Thanks

I have a friend, a fellow livery, whose little pony has been in the stable for months and months as he is a laminitic - he escaped from being tied up outside and although he was discovered quickly he managed to eat some grass for ten mins or so. This was a few weeks ago and then was acutely lame the next day and very uncomfortable. He's always bad when he's been trimmed so she tends to give him an extra bute before the farrier comes and I think he's on one every day anyway although I might be wrong.

He has a roll in the indoor school when he is well enough to walk and she has constructed a pen out of woodchip for him outside, she's waiting for another delivery of woodchip so she can relay it as it all went rubbish over the winter and isn't useable at the moment. He has EMS or cushings, I assume he is on Prascend but I'm not sure if that is the case.

Some might question his quality of life and personally for me it wouldn't be enough for my horse. But he seems happy enough, seems bright and tries to escape his stable at every opportunity, is always being nosy when tied up outside his stable to muck out, interacts with the other horses over their stable doors and seems bright and bubbly it himself with a good appetite, he's a right cheeky chappy sort of pony, an old games pony actually. It's really hard to make a decision as one day he's down then he's up and can be for many days or weeks. I don't envy being in her position and its hard for people not to be judgemental. But at the end of the day, who are we to judge? Surely its up to the vet/farrier/owner to make a joint decision or the owner after a conversation with all three if that is what she wants to do.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some vets seem to want to keep animals going too long.

This is an old pony with issues. The boots may help, but unless you can keep the pony off grass the lami will be there lurking.

We're all forecast rain soon, the grass will shoot up. I've got an old Cushing's mare that I'm also monitoring very closely, she did very well over the winter but if she can't cope with the grass, she'll have to go.

 

[Birker2020]

for an elderly pony i wouldnt be worried about the effect of bute on the liver, all drugs effect the organs and its likely the laminitis will get him before the effects of the drug on his liver.

My vet said this about mine too. She's had one side effect of the bute over all the years she's been on it and that was a nasty mouth ulcer on her gum.