Children left at yard by adults WWYD

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DaisyMoo

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Our yard had been adult only for about 18 months since the last 2 mid teenagers left (14 and 15 years old). It was great as we could come and go as we pleased without worrying about the kids or having to "look after" them. Last week a new livery arrived. I thought great a mum with her daughter. Unfortunately no. It is a 12 year old girl, whose had her pony for 10 days and has been through 4 in the last year as she keeps falling off so mum keeps selling and buying new ones. She has only been riding since last spring, and by her own admission, has only just cantered but doesn't like it as she leans forward to much and pony takes off. She is quite immature and naive for a 12 year old so needs an eye keeping on her.

The mother drops her off and leaves and when she goes back to school next month has told the little girl to make her own way to yard from school and she'll pick her up at 7pm. We have no arena so it is all hacking but a busy A road needs crossing to get on bridle way (2 horses have been killed on here in recent years - 1 that bolted from bridle way onto road and another whose rider was too busy on phone and just wandered onto road). I am in my thirties and childless and do not feel comfortable having to keep an eye on this child. She is very sweet but I am not a baby sitting service and do not want the responsibility should anything happen to child or pony when out hacking. I cannot get on my horse from ground so cannot get off on a hack should anything happen. I don't want to come across as a big bad ogre but need to get across that I don't want to ride out with an unaccompanied under 16 and cannot hang around at yard to make sure she is not on her own. I feel the mother has bought this child a pony so she could dump her on others to look after as she cant be bothered. Surely as a parent of a small, sweet 12 year old you'd want to keep them safe and ensure they didn't come to harm, not just offload them at any opportunity.

So my question is if she did tag along on a hack and had an accident or caused damage to someone else would my friend and I end up taking the flack as the responsible adults and could the mother plead ignorance to the girl riding her pony out and pass the blame and also how would you approach that you do not want to look after the child and her pony without causing friction and coming across as a bad person. I also don't want to upset said child as she is on a yard full of adults and obviously wants to enjoy having her pony.
 
I'm sorry but I'd be referring this straight to the YO/YM.

If you allow any 'tagging along' it will become habit and could end up in all sorts of trouble or simply limit your own cantering etc more than you wish! Either way that is not what you pay livery for.

It is up to the YO/YM to make sensible rules about the age at which people can be unaccompanied on a yard. I have to stay on-site for 30min child dance lessons let alone anything as dangerous as solo pony rides. There is no clear rule about leaving children alone at set ages unless your YO/YM makes one. And in this instance it sounds like they need to.
 
GirlFriday said:
I'm sorry but I'd be referring this straight to the YO/YM.

If you allow any 'tagging along' it will become habit and could end up in all sorts of trouble or simply limit your own cantering etc more than you wish! Either way that is not what you pay livery for.

It is up to the YO/YM to make sensible rules about the age at which people can be unaccompanied on a yard. I have to stay on-site for 30min child dance lessons let alone anything as dangerous as solo pony rides. There is no clear rule about leaving children alone at set ages unless your YO/YM makes one. And in this instance it sounds like they need to.
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The YO should have thought about this before taking on this livery, it is not a child minding after school club, they need to find a suitable yard that can accommodate this situation and where the YO is involved enough to want to help before an accident happens.
 
Most yards have a child rule the one next door is no child under 16 is to left at the yard without adult supervision, I don't think they are allowed to get horses in by themselves either which I think is quite sensible, I would speak to your yo or manager and they can then let the mother know what the yard policy is on children, I often hack with other people's children but the parents are my friends so they know me and I am just very sensible when they are with me, I wouldn't be happy to just be expected to look after someone's dumped child and I wouldn't do it.
 
Absolutely understand where you're coming from, OP but this really is a matter for the YO to address. In the meantime I would not allow the child to come with you on hacks because I could see a situation where you could well become responsible. Proper insurance such as that held by riding schools would be needed to protect you from that. I had a situation as a YO where we had an 11 year old here and at first she was supervised but then her mother just started dumping her here, sometimes with friends in tow and I was left as an unofficial babysitter. I addressed this by adding a rule into my livery contract that all children under the age of 16 were to be supervised at all times, and got all my liveries to sign it. That way, they were breaking yard rules to leave their child here without supervision. It worked, thankfully.
 
Agree with above comments but if you do allow her to ride out with you - does she have public liability insurance?
 
Do not take responsibility for this child while on the yard or out on a hack, with the sue everyone for everything culture I would not take the risk. You have a horse to enjoy and to relax. The YO needs to sort this out.
 
As above, speak to YO, then also speak to the parent telling them that you have spoken to YO as you have concerns about the child being left on own and that you are not willing to allow child to accompany you riding as you have no wish to accept any responsibility in any way for the child.

What the heck is parent thinking of, in another 8 to 9 weeks it's going to be dark around 5 -6pm
 
Definitely speak to YO about it. A child shouldn't be left on the yard unsupervised and the parent should definitely not be expecting others to supervise for them! We have a policy at our yard that any children under 16 need to be with a responsible adult. We have very few kids at our yard now but they are always with their parents and if one joins us on a hack it's prearranged and the parent knows about it.
 
I've provided a "child-sitting" service and hacking company to two 12 year old fellow liveries at different livery yards in fairly similar circumstances, but in both cases the parents discussed it with me first and I had an incentive (in one case the parents mucked out for me at the weekend, in the other my daughter had a ride on their other pony), plus the kids were competent riders. I agree with others speak to the YO initially. From your description of her riding I wouldn't want her hacking out with me anyway, she doesn't sound ready for hacking outside a RS / trekking environment.
 
Echo all that - you cannot take any form of responsibility for the child. Not only on hacks but also if she is allowed to be at the yard alone. The child safeguarding issues alone are massive. What if she were to accuse you of inappropriate conduct? What if there was an accident and she claimed (rightly or wrongly) that you had advised her or helped her in some way?

I hate having to say ignore a child. Especially a child potentially at risk as this one may be. But for your own protection if the YO does not sort this out then this is how it would have to be. The YO's insurance is also potentially at risk. People have accidents with horses all the time but when it is a child the damages recoverable can be significantly higher. I'd be slightly surprised if YO's own liability insurance does not have clause about unaccompanied children.

I am a mum. And it is quite possible that I left my daughter aged 12 alone on yard (although not for very long and never mounted - I'm not sure I was doing that even when she was 16!) But no other adult should ever feel they have the keep an eye out for a child.

If the YO won't address this I would be tempted myself to call the Social services line for a child at risk. I don;t know about your yard but a 12 year old alone on our yard after dark would be very vulnerable - never mind the risk from horses!
 
This is the YOer or managers job .
I would voice your concerns and say you are not going to watch somebodies else's child in your leisure time with your horse .
I would sadly also refuse to ride out with her .
 
I imagine when your YO thinks this one through properly all the blood will drain from their face and then they will look to find a solution PDQ. Agree with everyone else that you absolutely shouldn't take any sort of responsibility for this child as the risks are huge! I am another one who thinks this is appalling parenting, and very possibly social services territory if it can't be resolved by the YO having a chat with the mother. If she's not horsey herself and a bit dim she may have no idea how much risk she's exposing her child to. I don't have children myself, and freely admit I can sometimes be a bit judgemental about those who do, but this sort of thing really makes me despair about some people.
 
I feel for all parties here, it sounds as though the mother does not know much about horses, hence keeping on replacing the pony without the addition of lessons.

I feel for you, as no, you should not be responsible for someone else's child.

I feel for the yard owner, as they have a problem, and if they handle it wrongly they will lose money.

Most of all I feel for the child. I was once that child, aged 13, who got their first pony after a riding school, with a mother who knew nothing about ponies. I too was not in control of the pony. I asked for lessons, but mum told me that I had been having lessons at a riding school for years, and now I had a pony... I was scared and knew I was in danger, but at the age of 13 dare not say too much as then I would have no pony.

That first winter mum did drive with me to the yard, but she only sat in the car and read her paper. After that, aged 14, I got myself to the yard after school.

I was lucky, the yard had many liveries including more children. Some of the older ones took me under their wing, and sometimes all us kids would go out together. Some of the older ones took their bHSAI, and taught us informally in the evening as practice.

However, this was in a different era. It sounds to me that this yard is not the ideal place for this child. I imagine she would be happier and safer with somewhere with an arena, preferably with qualified tuition on site.

If I were in your position I would have a conversation with the parent, along the lines that you have noticed XYZ, and believe she needs some professional support to become safer and more confident. I would also inform YO that I was not responsible for the child. In the situation you describe I would not ride out with her. I know that my mum would have provided lessons etc if she had known what was necessary. She is mortified nowadays when she thinks about me riding out on main roads, not really in control. She thought once you had been to a riding school and had lessons then you were good to go.
 
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It does show how things have changed. I was just left at the yard as were lots of others and we were expected to help out and do all sorts. In this day and age, and even saying that makes me feel old then no I wouldn't take responsibility for a child especially one who sounds out of control. Being left there so late on a yard with few facilities is barmy and unsafe. No way would the place I am allow that.
 
Agree with everyone else, refer to yard owner or yard manager and refuse to supervise/take out on hacks. You'll only be compunding the issue. We had this at a previous yard, daughter (competent 14-15 year old) repeatedly had dumped on her to take hacking a child 3 or 4 years younger who could scarcely manage their previous pony let alone the newer bigger one. This child refused to follow instructions, allowed the pony to totally misbehave (usually by going too far ahead when told not to which upset my daughter's somewhat excitable horse, as well as causing pony to bunny hop/rear as daughter was almost out of sight behind her). In the end daughter stopped saying when she was going to ride/made every effort to tack up and go before the other child got to the yard/made arrangements with others to go at different times. This also lead to daughter being accused (mostly behind her back) of bullying/ignoring/excluding said child, when really it was the parent's fault for wanting to dump child with her rather than hack out with the child herself (had horse to ride).

If you allow the hacking buddy once you'll always be hacking with her, and it sounds like it'll be a hassle if she can barely control the pony, it's not your responsibility . I would tell the mum you would not feel competent at supervising her daughter, and as others say encourage lesson/join pony club.
 
Is the child or her mother asking if they can ride out with you, or tagging along? If so then say that she can't ride with you as you aren't prepared to be responsible for her or limit your hacks to her abilities. I'd have no problem being very blunt about it.

I'd also point out to the mum that there's often no-one around on the yard and so her daughter will be on her own, does she think that's safe? And then stick to it, don't alter your plans so you are there.

I'd also speak to the YO to say I was concerned, but my first stop would be the mum.
 
I would be really unhappy in this situation, as others have said it's really up to YO to sort - is YO aware that child is left alone/will be making their own way from school (in dark winter months?!)

Our YO doesn't spend a lot of time on the yard (although very well managed) to see daily comings and goings so giving the benefit of the doubt here!
 
I don't know what the legal situation with this is, but there is no way I would be taking any responsibility for a beginner / novice 12 year old who keeps falling off.
Even if the parents asked you and you said yes, I always think that these things are fine until someone gets injured and medical expenses need paying. They will have no qualms about coming after you. Steer clear.
 
Kid like that would be right at home on our yard, provided the mother understood the risks of children getting flung off at high speed and ambulanced off (TONGUE IN CHEEK) ... We have a lot of them. They are like a feral hoard that has no adult leadership. Importantly they have the leadership of the know-it-all 14, or OMG 15-year olds who are keen to teach them about horse welfare and respect ... and thus the cycle continues. I can't remember how/when the cycle started.

Basically, your yard does not sound set up for the child, for everyone's sake.
 
I haven't read all of the replies, but speak to the Yard Owner. This is their yard, their health and safety and their insurance responsibilty.

On my yard, if it was one of my liveries, this would be a big no no in the interests of safety to all: the child, other humans, horses and indeed any other living creature (as a small farm, we have several).
 
What on earth is the YO thinking of? Not that I can imagine what the mother is thinking of either, although some parents will leave their children with just about anybody, so long as they don't have to be bothered with them. It certainly isn't your responsibility to supervise a child and it definitely is a safeguarding issue. I would bring that to the attention of the YO immediately.
 
MissTyc said:
Kid like that would be right at home on our yard, provided the mother understood the risks of children getting flung off at high speed and ambulanced off (TONGUE IN CHEEK) ... We have a lot of them. They are like a feral hoard that has no adult leadership. Importantly they have the leadership of the know-it-all 14, or OMG 15-year olds who are keen to teach them about horse welfare and respect ... and thus the cycle continues. I can't remember how/when the cycle started.

Basically, your yard does not sound set up for the child, for everyone's sake.
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I agree with this, when I was a kid (before getting our own place) we were on child friendly yards and we all stuck together and helped each other out, we were all responsible kids of varying ages and we never needed any adults supervising us. I can't see the harm in it usually (although never after dark!) BUT this yard definitely doesn't sound like the right yard for a lone child to be on.
OP in your shoes I would maybe politely suggest to the mother some child friendly yards that would be more suitable for her daughter because there is nowhere safe for her to ride and nobody for her to ride with and I can imagine the child will soon start to feel lonely and isolated and get no enjoyment from her pony because let's face it I'm sure the 12 year old is about as exited to be riding out with a bunch of boring adults as you are of riding with her
 
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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Similar here seems a bit of an over-reaction although I agree the yard doesn't sound ideal for a child/ teenager.

My friends mum used to pick us up from school / home used to drop us off at the yard and leave us there all evening/ day at 12 years. My dad died and my mum had to work and she was totally unhorsey and was hardly going to supervise me for 3 hours every evening and for about 12 hours on a sunny weekend day. Used to have to use the pay phone which cost 5p a call to call my mum to pick us up. There were a fairly big bunch of kids and teenagers though so not on our own. Many generations of kids went through that yard even fairly recently. Happy days!
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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thats what I was thinking. At 12/13 I was dropped off at the farm where my pony was kept-no other adults around-and left for the day. no electric and nearest payphone at the pub a mile away. when we moved to a livery yard when I was 13/14, I was left there too-sometimes I rode out with other people, sometimes I didnt and there was no arena, we would school on a bit of unfenced land next to the road.There was a gang of local horsey kids but we werent all at the same yard.
 
I think the difference is the OP is feeling responsible for this child because there's no-one else around & it's affecting her time at the yard. The mother is in the wrong, in my opinion, to assume other people will take care of her child.
 
Has anyone asked you to be responsible for the girl?

I think it is an over reaction, that said I would make it clear I am not happy to hack out or be responsible for either pong or child if that's how I felt.
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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That is the thing, the world really has changed that much. 30 years ago no worries, nowadays not at all.
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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Yes but the dealer was supervising you to some extent. The ponies belonged to the dealer, if anything had gone wrong, the dealer would have been responsible. There doesn't seem to be any-one who is supervising this 12 yr old in OP and it certainly isn't DaisyMoo's responsibility to look after someone else's child and pony.
 
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