Children left at yard by adults WWYD

DaisyMoo said:
Our yard had been adult only for about 18 months since the last 2 mid teenagers left (14 and 15 years old). It was great as we could come and go as we pleased without worrying about the kids or having to "look after" them. Last week a new livery arrived. I thought great a mum with her daughter. Unfortunately no. It is a 12 year old girl, whose had her pony for 10 days and has been through 4 in the last year as she keeps falling off so mum keeps selling and buying new ones. She has only been riding since last spring, and by her own admission, has only just cantered but doesn't like it as she leans forward to much and pony takes off. She is quite immature and naive for a 12 year old so needs an eye keeping on her.

The mother drops her off and leaves and when she goes back to school next month has told the little girl to make her own way to yard from school and she'll pick her up at 7pm. We have no arena so it is all hacking but a busy A road needs crossing to get on bridle way (2 horses have been killed on here in recent years - 1 that bolted from bridle way onto road and another whose rider was too busy on phone and just wandered onto road). I am in my thirties and childless and do not feel comfortable having to keep an eye on this child. She is very sweet but I am not a baby sitting service and do not want the responsibility should anything happen to child or pony when out hacking. I cannot get on my horse from ground so cannot get off on a hack should anything happen. I don't want to come across as a big bad ogre but need to get across that I don't want to ride out with an unaccompanied under 16 and cannot hang around at yard to make sure she is not on her own. I feel the mother has bought this child a pony so she could dump her on others to look after as she cant be bothered. Surely as a parent of a small, sweet 12 year old you'd want to keep them safe and ensure they didn't come to harm, not just offload them at any opportunity.

So my question is if she did tag along on a hack and had an accident or caused damage to someone else would my friend and I end up taking the flack as the responsible adults and could the mother plead ignorance to the girl riding her pony out and pass the blame and also how would you approach that you do not want to look after the child and her pony without causing friction and coming across as a bad person. I also don't want to upset said child as she is on a yard full of adults and obviously wants to enjoy having her pony.
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Parent has obviously forgotten that a child under 18 cannot be left with anyone who has not been crb checked? Anyone can come onto yard and do gosh knows what! YO should be aware of this?
 
I would not take responsibility for this child at all and I would tell the mother that very soon to ensure she is under no illusion that you intend to babysit her child. 12 is very young to leave even if they are very capable around their pony but it would appear this child is not. Don't really understand the yard owner taking this livery in the first place and perhaps you and your friend should speak to the YO about it.
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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The world has changed a great deal, if this child had an accident whose to say the parent wouldn't sue? Also there is so much more traffic around now. I rode other peoples horses as a child, usually bareback and just a head collar on the mountain, don't think I gave it a thought that I could get hurt. Can't imagine what my mother thought but then again she wasn't told. Lol
 
Crugeran Celt said:
The world has changed a great deal, if this child had an accident whose to say the parent wouldn't sue? Also there is so much more traffic around now. I rode other peoples horses as a child, usually bareback and just a head collar on the mountain, don't think I gave it a thought that I could get hurt. Can't imagine what my mother thought but then again she wasn't told. Lol
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Horses aren't anymore dangerous than they used to be and neither imo are people. Traffic is worse but then again when I was 12 one of my friends was riding out with another girl and both took off the other girls horse was hit by a car and killed and that was 35 years ago. Children could also be abducted and indeed sometimes were in those days.

As to suing- what on earth (if they could even afford to do so) could the parents sue for given they've no contract by the livery or YO for supervision of their child and have just left them to their own devices?
 
Sussexbythesea said:
As to suing- what on earth (if they could even afford to do so) could the parents sue for given they've no contract by the livery or YO for supervision of their child and have just left them to their own devices?
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There was that recent case which ruined the lives of a teen girl, and, I think, her boyfriend's mum who had an ex (several homes ex iirc) racer. Lady had let girl (apparently a more confident rider than her) hop on... girl paralysed in a fall, lady lost everything financially as insurance didn't cover the staggering amount girl was awarded. Very sad. Especially when you consider all the families of disabled children who don't receive anything like the same level of assistance becasue they haven't anyone for (the law) to blame...
 
GirlFriday said:
There was that recent case which ruined the lives of a teen girl, and, I think, her boyfriend's mum who had an ex (several homes ex iirc) racer. Lady had let girl (apparently a more confident rider than her) hop on... girl paralysed in a fall, lady lost everything financially as insurance didn't cover the staggering amount girl was awarded. Very sad. Especially when you consider all the families of disabled children who don't receive anything like the same level of assistance becasue they haven't anyone for (the law) to blame...
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Yes I'd forgotten about that case which seems to be a miscarriage of justice in some ways and scary considering the implications for all horse owners.

They didn't have specific public liability insurance though and turned down an out of court settlement covered by the insurance they did have. Nevertheless you'd want to avoid that whole nasty situation whatever the outcome as the stress would be immense.
 
Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. Went to ride out last night yard owners son volunteered my friend and I to ride with the girl. Very unhappy. Didn't end up riding but friend did so walked behind.

Out the yard gate straight in front of a car. The poor child is clueless. Spent her whole time wacking ponys back end with crop and wondered why it bucked. Got in a major panic when my friend catered up the track on her horse and asked why she wasn't told we were cantering as she keeps losing her stirrups in canter and nearly fell off. Told YO son in no uncertain terms that despite being friends I am a paying customer at end of day and do not ever volunteer me to babysit liveries. He still can't see the issue so seeing YO when she is back today.

I agree that yes sometimes kids can be dropped off and left as long as appropriate supervision has been agreed. That I am not disputing. My problem is with the fact I am a paying customer and do not want to look after other people's kids who put their ponies in a yard that is fully DIY with no facilities and expect others to take on the responsibility. I feel sorry for the child the mother just wants her our the way. The child needs to be at a riding school so she has appropriate adults around her and cab have the lessons she never had when her mother stopped them after 3 goes and boight her a pony.
 
DaisyMoo said:
Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. Went to ride out last night yard owners son volunteered my friend and I to ride with the girl. Very unhappy. Didn't end up riding but friend did so walked behind.

Out the yard gate straight in front of a car. The poor child is clueless. Spent her whole time wacking ponys back end with crop and wondered why it bucked. Got in a major panic when my friend catered up the track on her horse and asked why she wasn't told we were cantering as she keeps losing her stirrups in canter and nearly fell off. Told YO son in no uncertain terms that despite being friends I am a paying customer at end of day and do not ever volunteer me to babysit liveries. He still can't see the issue so seeing YO when she is back today.

I agree that yes sometimes kids can be dropped off and left as long as appropriate supervision has been agreed. That I am not disputing. My problem is with the fact I am a paying customer and do not want to look after other people's kids who put their ponies in a yard that is fully DIY with no facilities and expect others to take on the responsibility. I feel sorry for the child the mother just wants her our the way. The child needs to be at a riding school so she has appropriate adults around her and cab have the lessons she never had when her mother stopped them after 3 goes and boight her a pony.
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I'd think (hope!) the YO is more likely to see the issue here. Mum needs to be told in no uncertain terms that the girl cannot be left unsupervised.

It's all very well people going on about how when they were younger they used to gallop about unsupervised for hours and hours. The big problem here is that the girl's mum is expecting other people to supervise her which, due to her inexperience, is a big responsibility. It doesn't sound like she is allowed/ able to ride alone. I had a loan pony when I was 10 and my own horse when I was 11 and completely non-horsey parents. I was very lucky in that a lot of people on the yard regularly offered to take me riding and sometimes even to drop me home afterwards. But I was a fairly competent child and my loan pony was a saint and my own horse, when I got her, was sharp but excellent on the roads and in traffic. I'm suspect the OP wouldn't mind occasionally riding out with a sensible, competent child on a well-behaved pony - it's the fact that this child seems to be a liability that is the main issue!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Yes but the dealer was supervising you to some extent. The ponies belonged to the dealer, if anything had gone wrong, the dealer would have been responsible. There doesn't seem to be any-one who is supervising this 12 yr old in OP and it certainly isn't DaisyMoo's responsibility to look after someone else's child and pony.
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The dealer was always in the pub or roaring drunk!!! Us kids supervised him! Our mums didn't have a clue... they'd never met him! But in this case the girls mum hasn't asked for OP to supervise or hack out with the child so why does she?
 
DaisyMoo said:
Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. Went to ride out last night yard owners son volunteered my friend and I to ride with the girl. Very unhappy. Didn't end up riding but friend did so walked behind.
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how does that happen though-why are you being volunteered to ride with her and why are you letting it happen? It's unfair but stop saying yes.

if you or your friend do agree to take her out then the oldest rule of riding with others is that you go at the speed the slowest/least experienced person on the ride for safety's sake. If you arent happy to do that then dont go with her.
 
stormox said:
The dealer was always in the pub or roaring drunk!!! Us kids supervised him! Our mums didn't have a clue... they'd never met him! But in this case the girls mum hasn't asked for OP to supervise or hack out with the child so why does she?
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I suppose the problem is she feels a sense of responsibility, if everybody just turns their back and ignors the child then NO-ONE is supervising her, and I assume the OP feels she can't just walk away and let the girl hurt herself / her pony / or others.
 
Spoke to YO this morning who by the way is a lovely lady. She has said totally understands and do not ride with the girl. She had been led to believe she was competent was not aware she had no road sense and struggled with pony. She is going to be on yard today and will monitor here.

I get that people are saying that o have no responsibility for the child burn am not a heartless woman that leaves a little kid in danger even if the mother thinks it's reasonable.

One of the posters is correct my horse was broken to drive a week ago and certainly do not want the kiddy hanging around as accidents happen when you are with horses not least when a horse is learning something new and the child is quite novice. Anyone that is around kids knows that no matter how much you tell them no it's not safe they still get in the way and tack up and tag along anyway.

Anyway fingers crossed YO will speak to.mother after today x
 
DaisyMoo said:
Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. Went to ride out last night yard owners son volunteered my friend and I to ride with the girl. Very unhappy. Didn't end up riding but friend did so walked behind.

Out the yard gate straight in front of a car. The poor child is clueless. Spent her whole time wacking ponys back end with crop and wondered why it bucked. Got in a major panic when my friend catered up the track on her horse and asked why she wasn't told we were cantering as she keeps losing her stirrups in canter and nearly fell off. Told YO son in no uncertain terms that despite being friends I am a paying customer at end of day and do not ever volunteer me to babysit liveries. He still can't see the issue so seeing YO when she is back today.

I agree that yes sometimes kids can be dropped off and left as long as appropriate supervision has been agreed. That I am not disputing. My problem is with the fact I am a paying customer and do not want to look after other people's kids who put their ponies in a yard that is fully DIY with no facilities and expect others to take on the responsibility. I feel sorry for the child the mother just wants her our the way. The child needs to be at a riding school so she has appropriate adults around her and cab have the lessons she never had when her mother stopped them after 3 goes and boight her a pony.
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You should have just said you are not happy to supervise a novice child and she cannot come with you, I would (and have in the past).
 
I am guessing that if no one agrees to go out with the child then the child will not go alone, so will not go out at all.

That would be safer, and also that way something else will have to be arranged, like a yard with professional tuition and an arena.

By agreeing to go out you/your friend are enabling the unsatisfactory arrangements to continue.

Personally, my horse time is my own, and I have no hesitation in deciding who I do or do not want to hack out with.
 
As a teenager I was on a livery yard on my own with a loan pony, it was a large livery yard as well with riders of all levels and disciplines BUT the difference was that I had spent my childhood at a RS spending every spare waking moment there so I was probably more knowledgeable than some of the adults and a very competent rider (better than I am now thats for sure)

I echo what everyone else has said OP but even though i hate children I feel a bit bad for this girl!
 
I really feel for this child if everything is as it seems. She is currently being set up to fail, not just with her pony, but life and school, and for what purpose? So as she or mum can say we have a pony? OP is soooo right to question this arrangement

Firstly the girl is of secondary school age, and therefore has homework during term time; if she is at the yard, when is she supposed to do this? After 7p.m.? She needs between 9 and 11 hours a night to sleep, so homework will be rushed if she is to do anything other than eat, wash and sleep! The school will then notice and she will get constant nagging to do better. She will almost certainly fail to achieve her academic potential.

Next she is isolated from her peer group! It is not fun for a child to be on its own with a bunch of adults who have no personal interest in her or her interests other than the pony, day after day, for more than 3 hours a day, Even if she does have a pony for company she is certainly not learning social skills,.

I could go on.
 
Definitely need a sit down conversation with yo with you and your friend there. They should be ones worried as what if the child decides to go out for a ride on her own and anything happens. She definitely doesn't sound ready to be riding anywhere but the school on an rs or similar pony.
I definitely wouldn't want to be responsible for her as like others have said it's not like she is competent.
 
DaisyMoo said:
I might be a bit dumb but don't understand this post , sorry :(
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I am guessing she thinks you are a troll. Troll under bridge??

I don't think that at all. The scenario you outlined sounds, sadly, extremely credible to me.

Apologies if I have got the bridge reference completely wrong.
 
CMcC said:
I am guessing she thinks you are a troll. Troll under bridge??

I don't think that at all. The scenario you outlined sounds, sadly, extremely credible to me.

Apologies if I have got the bridge reference completely wrong.
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Oh haha no not a troll genuine little me a 34 year old as accountant who is childless not really wanting responsibility for this poor girl whose totally out of her depth with said pony and I'm genuinely worries about what the implications are should something happen to her. If you tell me how I'll post a pic of me and daisymoo to prove I'm real :)
 
Its good that the yard owner has taken you seriously and is going to monitor the child. Hopefully she will point the mother in the direction of a decent instructor and they will be able to teach the child properly so that at some point she is able to ride well enough to control the pony and that she understands how to ride on roads and behave with other people so that she can start to enjoy herself more and be safe go on hacks with other people.
 
DaisyMoo said:
I might be a bit dumb but don't understand this post , sorry :(
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I didn't think you were dumb enough to ignore all the warnings on this thread and take the girl out with you on foot (effectively acting as an RI...). Nor did I think you'd have a dumb enough friend to canter with a (young novice) hacking companion without checking with them first. I always check and expect others to check with me and I'm old enough to be the girls mum!

You seemed smarter than the activities you reported, that is all.

Edited as I've just seen your most recent post - accountants are supposed to be risk averse :-) Try living up to your stereotype a little more and enjoy your pony.
 
GirlFriday said:
I didn't think you were dumb enough to ignore all the warnings on this thread and take the girl out with you on foot (effectively acting as an RI...). Nor did I think you'd have a dumb enough friend to canter with a (young novice) hacking companion without checking with them first. I always check and expect others to check with me and I'm old enough to be the girls mum!

You seemed smarter than the activities you reported, that is all.

Edited as I've just seen your most recent post - accountants are supposed to be risk averse :-) Try living up to your stereotype a little more and enjoy your pony.
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I get where you are coming from but when you are put in a very awkward position by someone you make the best of it and not taking my horse and walking made it much safer with the horrible position I was put in that I didn't want to be in. My friend was on YO horse, which made it difficult for her to refuse, and whenever it gets to the corner of the track it canters up it whwther you want to or not as it has fallen into bad habits :( anyway walking behind should anything happen was much safer and I've spoken to YO this morning and she is fully supportive of our reasons for being concerned and agrees that we should not go riding so of o am volunteered by her son again I can confidently tell him no with worrying about any repercussions. Once again thank you all I really appreciate all your comments help and advice
 
sunshine100* said:
Parent has obviously forgotten that a child under 18 cannot be left with anyone who has not been crb checked? Anyone can come onto yard and do gosh knows what! YO should be aware of this?
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Children are left with people not crb checked all the time .i have been on my own with my nephew sine he was a fortnight old he's 17 now .
 
DaisyMoo said:
I've spoken to YO this morning and she is fully supportive of our reasons for being concerned and agrees that we should not go riding so of o am volunteered by her son again I can confidently tell him no with worrying about any repercussions.
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I remain utterly bemused as to what repercussions there could possibly be for a livery refusing to agree to supervise another livery's child at the random behest of the YO's son! All I can think of is that there must be some seriously weird clauses in your livery contract, OP. This situation simply wouldn't happen on any yard that I know.
 
stormox said:
How the world has changed!! As a horse mad 12 yr old, me and my friend used to bike 4 miles to a local dealers yard, rode and fell off this that and everything,then cycled home at night, hairy arse from riding bareback, saddle on handlebars to clean for tomorrow, covered in dirt hay and bruises and big grins on our faces.....
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Yes, I know. I do understand the enhanced sense of danger these days - not sure I'd want a child of mine to get up to all I did, LOL, but at the same time I feel sad that kids now won't get the experience we had of just hanging out all day together with the horses. :)
 
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