Children show jumping - possibly controversial post?

[Lady Jane]

Good morning all I am constantly seeing (mainly Instagram) of very small (6-12yrs) children jumping pretty big tracks and everyone raves about what amazing riders they are. They have absolutely no leg on their ponies as their legs are to short so while I can agree they are balanced and can steer, how can they be amazing riders? The ponies are so 'goey' they just whizz until they are stopped. Am I being mean or missing something? The fences they do for their size is impressive

 

[blitznbobs]

Ummm if their ponies are already whizzing over the jumps what would more leg do? (I’m very anti nagging with legs) … these kids are brave, and get their ponies around a big track. Yes they have great ponies but so many kids these days are scared of their own shadow their courage is to be commended. Jumping a big track on a little pony takes balance and timing… so not to smack pony in their teeth… I’m not sure what more you want to see tbh. They are obviously having fun and not causing any harm … all good in my book.

 

[ycbm]

They sound like amazing riders to me for their bravery and for their ability to jump in balance while not being tall enough to get their leg round the pony. I'll bet they grow up into terrific adult riders. The biggest questions for me are whether the ponies are happy and the riders are having fun.

I'd like to see some, anyone got pointers?
.

 

[Abacus]

It seems likely that the ponies are schooled for them and that in a show situation they are a capable passenger. Nothing wrong with this except that at some stage they’ll need to learn to ride green horses (unless they can afford to buy ready made every time and have them schooled).

Personally I don’t love seeing a very small child on a too-large horse jumping, too much that might go wrong however good the horse.

 

[gallopingby]

These kids are usually very ‘spunky’ and either have an established equestrian family behind them or someone prepared to pay ££££££s for the pony. If you study the form many of the ponies / horses are established and often 15 years plus often into their 20’s. I agree ycbm it’s an excellent grounding and many of them go on to become top jockeys in various forms.

 

[Orangehorse]

Like on famous instructor said about teaching show jumping children "I never make the mistake of trying to teach the children to ride, they are learning how to ride the pony they have now."

The child riders are certainly brave and some do produce young ponies, but most are riding ponies that have been doing it for years and are basically point and kick.

 

[criso]

The ponies aren't completely point and shoot. When I was a kid, someone at the yard was bought a jumping pony and it stopped jumping with her. She wasn't even doing big tracks but small local shows. They then bought her a champion working hunter pony for what seemed an insane amount of money and that gave up jumping so she did straight hunter showing at small local shows which she usually won.

 

[Skib]

And the accident, injury and death rate for child jumpers these days? I post this remembering my time as a dormitory head in a 1950s boarding school where one child wept every night for her friend who had died jumping in the summer holidays.

 

[HopOnTrot]

My daughter doesn’t jump but her legs don’t even go past the saddle, does this mean she shouldn’t ride? What are your criteria for allowing a child to ride to your standards?

 

[Orangehorse]

A local girl brought on a pony from being a purchase from Brecon market to winning at the Horse of the Year Show. They never managed to sell it though, either it came back "lame" or new rider couldn't get on with it. I think it went on loan to someone in the end so the owner sadly missed out on the mega money they had been asking.

Another very successful 14.2 (long list British team) sold for a huge sum. The new rider took it for a lesson, the instructor put up an enormous line of fences, pony stopped and shot small rider into the fence and the pony came back as unsuitable .............. I think that one went on loan too, but that was another they had produced for years and were a partnership.

Parents sometimes pay an awful lot of money for a successful, proven pony and if it doesn't immediately start winning with their child they send it back.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I feel it’s sad that we, as in general society, seem to be intent on reducing the assumption of capability for children.

We seem overly concerned with infantilising age groups who used to be sufficiently capable to act with much more independence.

Late teenagers and young adults who used to be of age to marry, have families and even go to war, are now treated as children as late as their early 20s. Universities are being petitioned to treat adult pupils as children in their care.

When I was seven or eight, I would take myself down to see my pony, catch, tack up, hack out, untack, wash, turnout without any direct supervision at all. In fact, possibly with only a few of my friends and the older girls being around. They may have been twelve. My welsh c was mad as a hatter and I fell off weekly. My welsh d x arab was hotter, and I had him until 11. I then had a pure Arab.

The height of excitement was being asked to look after one of the adults horses, and I would regularly ride one of the big warmbloods that belonged to my instructor, with my little legs dangling just past the saddle.

It was a happy happy time. I genuinely perceive more risk in spending one’s life cosseted and unable to develop a sense of self-preservation, self confidence and capability.

I’m sure many people will say that children were different in the past, and the world was different. But children aren’t going to develop unless we let them, and the world isn’t going to have more capable independent people unless we build those people. And I’m in my 30s so I didn’t grow up a hundred years ago.

To me, a ‘very small child’ is about four. Not 6-12.

 

[Janique]

Not sure if i remember right but years ago, there was a wonderful pony called something like Strawberry Mojo,
he did all the big tracks with many children passing from one to another.

Many championship is well, If i remember, it's was skewball mare.

Does anyone remember her ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Not sure if i remember right but years ago, there was a wonderful pony called something like Strawberry Mojo,
he did all the big tracks with many children passing from one to another.

Many championship is well, If i remember, it's was skewball mare.

Does anyone remember her ?

I think I do was she a Skewbald ?

 

[scats]

It’s no mean feat to ride a whizzy pony around a course of jumps. You’d be surprised how strong some of the ponies are and to stay in balance when their legs barely come below the saddle flap is testament to their seat.
Good on them.

 

[Rowreach]

Look behind the scenes at the way these ponies are treated, and quite often how these kids are treated by their parents, and then weigh that against the "brave and fearless" thing ...

 

[maya2008]

Well, my children can both back and produce youngsters, creating sweet, kind, confident ponies that go on to teach younger children to ride, to come off lead, to jump round a course, to hack confidently. Could they jump those tracks though? No. They wouldn’t have a clue where to even start. Completely different skill set.

Those little kids OP is talking about are great riders with a skill set that is all about riding sharp, competitive ponies over big tracks. Some of them may well have produced their own, many will have been bought a competitive pony. But to be fair, most of the kids we see at local shows, including my own, couldn’t ride one side of super sharp over super big fences!

 

[Janique]

Strawberry Mojo was jumping in 1992, big tracks, found her on youtube but i am useless to put a link.

What a pony, she took so many kids around big tracks and passed from one to another.

Loved watchign that pony, think she keep going until very old too.

 

[Rowreach]

Well, my children can both back and produce youngsters, creating sweet, kind, confident ponies that go on to teach younger children to ride, to come off lead, to jump round a course, to hack confidently. Could they jump those tracks though? No. They wouldn’t have a clue where to even start. Completely different skill set.

Those little kids OP is talking about are great riders with a skill set that is all about riding sharp, competitive ponies over big tracks. Some of them may well have produced their own, many will have been bought a competitive pony. But to be fair, most of the kids we see at local shows, including my own, couldn’t ride one side of super sharp over super big fences!

I know which variety of kids I’d rather produce, and which will probably be better for the equestrian community in the long term.

 

[SEL]

Not always the easiest to ride. I did some riding work for a dealer in my early 20s and because I'm short and light I often rode the ponies. One that I had a real problem with brakes went to a 10yo girl who had a fabulous time with it. I think it responded to point & shoot rather than my attempts to actually ride it! Even back then the established jumping ponies got a good price

I grew up riding warmbloods in Germany as a child and it's not great for confidence if you can't wrap your leg around. They were incredibly well schooled but I was definitely perched on the saddle.

 

[HopOnTrot]

All the kids I know who jump decent tracks on fast ponies put in a hell of a lot of work behind the scenes but no one wants to watch videos on instagram of the boring bits so they?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Look behind the scenes at the way these ponies are treated, and quite often how these kids are treated by their parents, and then weigh that against the "brave and fearless" thing ...

I think this is a bit of an unfair generalization. There are plenty of great naturally fun and forward ponies, with wonderful child riders who look after them very well, and with great parents and instructors.

Our ponies lived out 24/7, we hacked for miles, we swam with them, rode on the beach, camped with them. I generally rode in a head collar and bareback unless I had a lesson. The ponies had fabulous lives and we adored them. They also jumped brilliantly and competed regularly.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

There are also people who don’t treat horses well, of course, just as there are in lots of horse sports. But I would look at a whizzy pony and a young rider and automatically assume that they are treated awfully.

 

[JFTDWS]

I’m not bothered about kids jumping big tracks when they can’t really reach past the saddle so much as I am by their parents filming it for public social media accounts. Particularly when they try to monetise that and the kid ends up doing -for example - large scale meet and greets at shows

Provided the pony is fundamentally safe (as any can be), happy and sound, and the kid wants to do it, the activity itself is not the issue.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I’m not bothered about kids jumping big tracks when they can’t really reach past the saddle so much as I am by their parents filming it for public social media accounts. Particularly when they try to monetise that and the kid ends up doing -for example - large scale meet and greets at shows

Provided the pony is fundamentally safe (as any can be), happy and sound, and the kid wants to do it, the activity itself is not the issue.

The speed they go round would terrify me as a parent, so that's my hypothetical children out of that particular race!

Aside from that I agree that the social media stuff concerns me more. The way the young children seem in some cases dressed up and presented a bit like mini adults, very serious looks on their faces, videos all in slow-mo, very dramatic - I'm thinking, where's the fun and joy of being out with their pony? Another with a mum posting commentary about how her child 'knew he'd done wrong/messed up' in his round or something actually quite unnecessarily critical to be posting for the literal world to see.

The monetisation and over-exposure of these kids (and non-equestrian 'mommy vlogger' type accounts) is grim. I am sure they have far less protections in place than child actors do, and seem to have far more of their personal lives permanently documented all over the internet. Maybe when they grow up it will just be fine and normal because they've grown up with it but from my perspective if I was able to look up and see various minute moments of my childhood just there online for all to see I think it would really get to me mentally.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I’m not bothered about kids jumping big tracks when they can’t really reach past the saddle so much as I am by their parents filming it for public social media accounts. Particularly when they try to monetise that and the kid ends up doing -for example - large scale meet and greets at shows

Provided the pony is fundamentally safe (as any can be), happy and sound, and the kid wants to do it, the activity itself is not the issue.

I agree, I think the social media exploitation of children is an absolute nightmare. Whether that includes ponies or not.

I went to a baby shower where there was a request for only wooden toys which I thought might be a nice environmental thing. But it was because this person wanted to maintain the aesthetic settled on for the child, mainly because for social media purposes. Absolutely mad.

 

[humblepie]

When I was 10 I had a 13.2 jumping pony. He was amazing and we jumped big tracks. If I was complacent he could pop in a stop so did need riding. That said I could generally not stop him after the final fence and my father would be by the exit to catch him to slow down. Definitely not an amazing rider but I like to think fairly thoughtful re corners and angles and gains in jump offs.

 

[Cortez]

Depends how you define "riding". What I see in the littlies SJ classes isn't really how I like to see ponies being ridden; super fast, counter-bent a lot of the time, no pace, no balancing, a lot of pulling and flapping, often plainly out of control. The issue of no leg on the pony is key; without the ability to get a leg around the pony how can you steady, balance, bend, or use the seat? I'm sure many of the riders are having fun, I'm also sure many are not and are in fact terrified (of the pony; possibly of the parents, judging by the attitude of many). But I'm not a SJ person anyway.

 

[Rowreach]

I think this is a bit of an unfair generalization. There are plenty of great naturally fun and forward ponies, with wonderful child riders who look after them very well, and with great parents and instructors.

Our ponies lived out 24/7, we hacked for miles, we swam with them, rode on the beach, camped with them. I generally rode in a head collar and bareback unless I had a lesson. The ponies had fabulous lives and we adored them. They also jumped brilliantly and competed regularly.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

There are also people who don’t treat horses well, of course, just as there are in lots of horse sports. But I would look at a whizzy pony and a young rider and automatically assume that they are treated awfully.

Well that’s great but we’re talking about videos of these kids jumping big tracks at big shows and all the oohs and ahs about bravery, and I know exactly what goes on behind the scenes, how many of these ponies are “made” this way, and how the expectations of the parents affects the kids.

And I’m being charitable using the word “expectations”.

 

[honetpot]

Not a lot of children ride their pony, meaning that they have enough mental and physical developement to actually make something that weighs 350kg plus, afffect it way of going and make it do anything it doesn't want to do. Usually as quickly as possible, and get to its lifes work for most, eating or resting.
The trick of training ponies is to make the work as short as possible, get the rider to not do anything to hamper the work, and then let them be. I think a child has to be really able to understand and be able to control their weight aids before they have any effect, then the is the understanding that you have to prepare the aids well before you actually do something, its a bit like mirror signal, and then if you are lucky it will respond, even some adults do not understand that.
So most children and some adults are just passengers, the ponies is just doing something trained, and then hopefully rest. I see lots of adults riding with their hands, using the horses mouth as a prop, or a worst losing their rag and giving a sock in the teeth, so in comparison something that weighs 20-30kg is not doing a lot of harm physically. I just do not like the fact that they animal is often being treated like a bike, and its not only show jumping. I used to steward and the amount of ponies that do a full days work often unfit on hard ground, makes me really mad. Its the 'good' ponies because the clever ones have learned how to avoid work.
The children who have made showjumping ponies often do not do well when they go on to horses because they have not learned to ride properly, even if they can sit on one and steer it.

 

[Rowreach]

Anyone wanting an example of a child who has been properly taught and can get big horses going sweetly for her at the age of 13 should have a look at Jo Davis’s daughter.

 

[Steerpike]

Not sure if i remember right but years ago, there was a wonderful pony called something like Strawberry Mojo,
he did all the big tracks with many children passing from one to another.

Many championship is well, If i remember, it's was skewball mare.

Does anyone remember her ?

She was around when my sister was jumping!