Choosing a puppy over a rescue dog

[Patches]

I read alot of comments on here just lately that have almost made me feel guilty, selfish and irresponsible for having chosen to put my name down for a litter of unborn, purebred pups and not adopt from a rescue.

Is it really so bad that people, like me, want to buy a puppy that's been home reared, where they know it's full history, and is theirs from day one? I knew exactly what breed I wanted, the temperament, character, size etc of dog I wished to own. I also chose a pup as we have children and I wanted our new dog to be used to our family dynamics and grow up accepting them. I'd be more inclined to look at a rescue next time, when the children are grown and I'm left wondering if I'm too old to take on another puppy.

I'm not saying I would never entertain a rescue dog, but lately I feel as though I should almost justify my decision not to have had one this time.

My puppy's parents were already mated before I put my name down for one, I will admit. The breeder had far more names than pups were born but selected the "best homes" out of those who had "applied" for her pups. We were all vetted.

I don't intend to use my pup as a stud dog at all and he'll be castrated when he's old enough. Who is to say he wouldn't have ended up in a rescue centre in months/years to come if he'd been sold to someone else who either foiled the breeder into thinking they were a good home or had a change of circumstances that meant they had to give him up?

I can 100% guarantee Harvey a home for life.....unless I die before him of course (which at 38 I hope I don't). Surely that's a respnsible approach to dog ownership, even if he wasn't adopted through a rescue?

 

[Spudlet]

I went for rescue with some trepidation, because I wanted a young adult dog.I knew I couldn't have a young puppy, since I rent (so wanted to avoid chewing as much as possible) and since I take my dog to work - an unhousetrained puppy would not have worked.

I went with the intention of finding a nce dog, still young, with as few issues as possible, and found just that.

Also, I knew I couldn't afford a good example of the only breed I would have wanted from a puppy - a labrador. Henry cost a lot less than Barney did 16 years ago!

I would choose to have a puppy if I was looking for a dog to properly work, but generally rescue would be my first port of call. I always encourage people to rescue because there is a perception that all rescue dogs come with terrible baggage and that is just not true - I don't want this misperception to put people off looking at rescue centres. Dogs end up in rescue for all sorts of reasons.

However I would not judge someone who chose a puppy as long as they were getting one from a reputable source - not a puppy farm or BYB.

 

[itsme123]

As I pointed out before, I tried to rehome Jack's brother who was in rescue, and they wouldnt allow me to, because of having children. So it's a no-win situation. It seems that rescue centres seem to penalise you for any small thing, ie garden not big enough, if you live near a main road, or if you work for two hours a day.

As you know, we got a pup from a litter in the end. Home bred, home reared and non advertised. If, God forbid, anything went wrong, the breeder would have her back (not that that will happen!).

I think if you buy from a responsible breeder, it's a whole lot different to buying from a backstreet breeder. So don't feel guilty! just enjoy him, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone!

 

[Patches]

I couldn't trust myself to go into a rescue centre and not take the first dog that looked pitifully at me, no matter what it's history was.

I would absolutely consider a rescue collie to "work" (fetching cows is the loosest sense of the term work) alongside Bess.

 

[toomanyhorses26]

We have had one rescue and one puppy both had there plus points and negative points and can totally see both sides to the discussion. Ou rrescue was a pedigree toy poodle(my dad loved it ) who had been a lap dog to an elderly lady who subsequently died . Dog ended up in rescue centre, we come along typical family wanting a first dog ,she was small ,relatively quiet(although she did have a much louder ,larger bark than you would expect

) on the face of it pretty good match . Got her home took her to our vets to be registered - she was 12 instead of 8 years old ,had horrendous teeth and several other medical complaints . Was posseive over toys,beds,my mum etc and just generally was the stereotypical spoilt toy dog. She did live out her days with us grumbling and grouching along but generally she wasn't a nice dog to have around . Puppy was bought from a friend of the family who had bred the dogs for three generations and this particular litter was a fundraising one for their son who was very ill in hospital - minimum donation was £500 but they raised a total of £5000 from this one litter . She was a gorgeous dog from day one - affectionate ,playful and quick to learn - she settled into daily life in a crazy household - 4 kids,3 cats , 4 chickens and at the time 3 horses and just took it all in her stride . Im sure in time my family would look to get another dog perhaps a rescue perhaps not but wherever we went they would be assured of a home for life

 

[Spudlet]

Ah well, I am a hardened animal welfare bod, all fluffiness has been crushed from my soul by the relentless pragmatism of work

Which is why I ended up in tears at the centre because there was a lab pup that looked just like a young Barney (how I walked away from him I still don't know!) and why took the first dog I took out for a walk!

The rescue I went to was pretty professional about steering people to appropriate dogs - and it helped that the place was full with people viweing dogs on the day so I doubt many of the dogs they had in stayed there long.

 

[Patches]

My sister phoned our local dog's home up a while back and they seemed to have alot of large breeds in which were given up because the owners excuses were they hadn't realised how much a big dog cost to feed, so were downsizing to a smaller dog, or they felt "too big" for their small homes.

That really is no excuse is it? Makes you realise that *some* people really do buy a puppy without giving any thought to the adult dog it will become.

I might be tempted to rehome an adult Cocker once Harvey is a little older. I think Cockers are under estimated immensely for the amount of energy they have. They're another dog that people buy thinking they look cute and then baulk when they realise it needs clipping/grooming regularly.

I would love to open a doggy day-care centre on the farm as I think there is quite possibly a real need for something like that in our area. It might help to stop some of these dogs ending up in rescue centres when their owners change jobs etc.

My sister would like to rescue a a Cavalier King Charles, given a choice.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

You don't have to justify yourself or feel guilty. You chose a dog which would fit into your life, which is all everyone should do.

I've has Oz from a pup, I did consider a rescue, but on initial inquiries, they seemed to have issues with me working shifts.

All others have been Labs or Springers, from working lines as were worked.

1st family dogs weren't rescues, but were in danger of becoming them as woman announced she had 10 useless puppies (her ESS bitch had got out and met something big and black.....judging by the pups)......we took 2!

 

[FinnishLapphund]

The key word for me is responsible, if you make a responsible choice and get a dog that you believe is the best choice for you, I don't see why anybody should feel guilty for buying from a responsible breeder rather than a responsible rescue.


F.ex. it is not as if I've never heard of rescue dogs being returned to rescue centers either, so they are obviously not either perfect in only letting their dogs go to forever homes. Just as responsible rescues tries to take back such dogs, so should responsible breeders try and take back dogs that needs it.



Most important of all perhaps, is that if all responsible breeders stops breeding, guess who people will buy their puppies from then? Those who would never dream about trying to take back either a puppy or a dog that they've created...

 

[CAYLA]

I hope it's not me making u feel that way.....agree with FLH though, u really need to make sure it;s a responsible breeder and look past the cute litter for sale lets get one, thats whats worse ignorant people buying from ignorant sellers.
I have seen some prime examples on here of what looks like responsible buying/irrisponsible buying/responsible breeding and some very irrisponsible breeding(the exact reason we have rescues and dogs packing them) it's like the people we deal with right here on this forum

and no doubt the Awww replies come from those who know no better or have the bliss of ignorance(best way I can describe it)

I guess some will never fully understand where I come from....because some will never see in a life time what had made me feel sick to my stomach in the first few hours of one of my days.
I don't expect people to cease breeding and buying I just expect people to be more responsible and less selfish.
I of course will never go for anything other than a rescue and own far to many than I should , but not by choice.

Hope thats makes sense, im in a downer tonight as feeling like crap after some bad news, and no suprise rescue related....sometimes I wish to remove myself from it all to live a normal stress free life.....but no matter how many times I tell myself this, there is always something else that needs help.................what can u do

I do however have the upmost respect for those who take on a rescue be it a one with issues or a one without, because thats just me.

OK now im sounding like im going to take my own life.
The end

 

[Patches]

It's not you that makes me sometimes feel a tad guilty, honestly.

I can't begin to imagine how heartbreaking it must be for you to see some of the sights that come into your rescue. I am not naive myself, as I have a daughter who likes to watch Animal Cops Houston, Miami and whichever other State they're broadcast from. I often find myself in tears, dumbfounded by the unbelievable cruelty some animals have to endure in their lifetimes.

Doesn't make any sense to me, as a responsible and loving owner, how people could be so cruel.

I do sometimes worry though how easy it is to get a dog from a breeder, especially one only interested in their cash crop from the pups. If I could have our time over, I would never have bought our Border Collie from the breeder we got her from. That's not to say she hasn't turned out to be ok for us, but she's far too wired to be a "pet" and most of the rest of the litter were sold into family homes, not farms/working homes. I also bumped into someone who said their dog was from the same breeder and was only 19 weeks older than our pup! ***Shocking***

She was bought pretty much on the spur of the moment as our old farm dog had died and we know the farmer that was breeding them. Had no idea he breeds repeatedly at the time OR that the local vet has put a few down, that have been sold into families, due to their behaviour.

Again, as I say, we don't have any real problems with Bess...other than she's turned very vocal now the cows are in for winter. She can't understand why she cannot round them up! Bless her.

I made sure my new puppy was from eye and hip scored stock, unrelated parents and the mother had never been bred before. I also wanted to be involved from their birth so as to ease the transition to coming to live with us as much as possible. We didn't just go and look at a litter that were ready to leave and bring one straight home.

That said....any tips on nipping (excuse the pun) puppy nipping in the bud? I cannot remember Jasper nipping like Harvey does, but I expect he did.

We have started to entertain his mind with sit and down, using a few pieces of his puppy food kibble as a treat. He is used to wearing a collar now and we have started to walk him about the living room a few times a day to get him used to walking on a lead ahead of him being allowed out after his second jab.

It's mostly play, sleep, toilet, play, toilet, play, toilet, sleep, toilet, eat all day long!

Puppies are damned hard work and purchasing one is never a decision that should be undertaken lightly. I have no idea how people who work full time manage to raise a pup....mine goes outside about 15 times a day, at least, as part of house training!

 

[itsme123]

the thing is, you look in freeads and you find pups, ten-a-penny. Recently a pup wa advertised close to me *9 week old JRT with cage, bowl, food, bed, toys* for something stupid like £75. The advert stated she'd bought it and 'didnt realise how much time it needed, and i work full time'. I mean, who buys a pup without thinking about it? Obviously people do.... but it wasnt until after we got Rosie that I realised just how many dogs are in rescue and how many people try and re sell puppies after only having had them a few weeks!
I agree, homes should be vetted by responsible breeders who care about each and every life they create. I can see why recues are so stringent, afterall, they don't want the dog coming back if it can be helped, but it's so difficult if the prospective adopter has children.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope it's not me making u feel that way.....agree with FLH though, u really need to make sure it;s a responsible breeder and look past the cute litter for sale lets get one, thats whats worse ignorant people buying from ignorant sellers.
I have seen some prime examples on here of what looks like responsible buying/irrisponsible buying/responsible breeding and some very irrisponsible breeding(the exact reason we have rescues and dogs packing them) it's like the people we deal with right here on this forum

and no doubt the Awww replies come from those who know no better or have the bliss of ignorance(best way I can describe it)

I guess some will never fully understand where I come from....because some will never see in a life time what had made me feel sick to my stomach in the first few hours of one of my days.
I don't expect people to cease breeding and buying I just expect people to be more responsible and less selfish.
I of course will never go for anything other than a rescue and own far to many than I should , but not by choice.

Hope thats makes sense, im in a downer tonight as feeling like crap after some bad news, and no suprise rescue related....sometimes I wish to remove myself from it all to live a normal stress free life.....but no matter how many times I tell myself this, there is always something else that needs help.................what can u do

I do however have the upmost respect for those who take on a rescue be it a one with issues or a one without, because thats just me.

OK now im sounding like im going to take my own life.
The end

[/ QUOTE ]


To end with saying "The end" after that last sentence makes me wonder if I should try and somehow find a way to contact your other half (though I have no idea even where to start) and ask if you have any firearms, lots of pills, alcohol, rope or sharp objects in your house...




Sorry to hear that you've had bad news and is feeling crap.

It doesn't help but should I tell you a rescue story with a happy ending? You maybe remember that I donated money to a Swedish dog rescue this spring? It is the largest dog rescue in Sweden but I think it still is quite small compared to some UK rescues. Regardless of their size, in September 2006 they had to make room for 10 Dachshunds, pure breeds because they were kept in a separate room from the 141 Yorkshire Terriers that the police also had found in the house of a female "hoarder"!



They filled every space they could find with the dogs, trying to separate males from females the best they could. They had no idea which Yorkie bitch was mother to which Yorkie puppies, because of course there was young puppies there as well. They had received no coat care, they had done their "business" indoors...




Basically it was a lot more than what even our largest rescue is truly equipped to handle. Still they all found good homes all over Sweden and in May 2007 they had a get together at the rescue, to which about 80 of the Yorkies was able to come with their new owners.
Sorry the text is in Swedish, but if you want to see a few photos from the get together http://www.hundstallet.se/index.php/nyheter/artiklar/426-yorktraeff .

Hope you feel a little better tomorrow.

 

[Spudlet]

Patches re the nipping - you have a couple of options - either a firm NO, or make a very high-pitched squeal as though he has really hurt you. If he is seeing it as a big game, I would go for the squeal cos if he is anything like Henry or Barney he will just blow raspberries at your no-ing and do it anyway....

Sure others will have good advice, but that is what I remember doing for Barney, and he grew up to be a 100% non-nipper

.

 

[FestiveSpirit]

I would never have a puppy now - I have had rescues for the past ten years, and could not imagine getting a puppy when there are so many deserving dogs looking for new homes who have had such a cr*p start in life

I have had (counts on fingers

) five rescues so far and can honestly say that I have NEVER had any issues with them which would not potentially have been in an 8 week old puppy too.

I personally do find it very sad that people still buy puppies when there are so many dumped, neglected, abandoned, and abused dogs out there - but that is my personal choice I know

 

[CorvusCorax]

We haven't bought a baby puppy in years, as said before, we have gone for young adults or 6-9mth old pups who haven't made the grade in the showring.

HERE IS ANOTHER POINT - re ads about 'champion bloodlines' 'fantastic pedigree' 'bred in the purple' - my dogs have their pink papers from Germany, some of the biggest names of recent times in their pedigree, their father was judged to be the best working male in Ireland and England, their mother has working qualifications also and was shown in Germany, both good results in all the required health tests and are DNA'd, microchipped and tattoed - but neither of my two are show or breeding quality and to be honest, I think there is only one in the litter who is.
You can still put two excellent animals together and get a result which is...OK

But I'd rather see two excellent animals put together than two crap ones.

They also didn't cost £500 each or some of the other huge prices I have seen quoted on here for
pedigree dogs.

To be honest, baby puppies don't really do anything for me. Yes, they are cute, all puppies are cute, of course, and lovely to look at, but they soon grow up and older ones are more sensible and don't piss everywhere

Until an AMAZING working litter comes along, I will choose to home the dogs that are already here and I would definitely consider rescuing my next dog if he or she has the right drive to work. My only problem would be not having their hip/elbow/general health history to hand.

Just some of my thoughts

 

[Annette4]

I will be getting a puppy when I get another for one reason only, all the rescues round here won't let me take a dog because I'll be working full time and no longer at home (mum works part time).

I can understand to a point, but I already have an adult dog who I will have provisions made for him (ie: someone to walk and spend time with him if I can't get home for lunch.

I would far rather have a younger rescue but if they deem me unsuitable to have one of their dogs then I don't have much choice.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

About the nipping, basic ways to deal with it :

1 High-pitched squeal.
2 Ignoring! As soon as he begins to nip, he becomes invisible, don't look at him and don't talk to him. If you hold him, put him down as you would a bag of flour (preferably close to some gnaw bones/dog toys).
3 Silently remove f.ex. your hand out of your puppies mouth and put a dog toy or gnaw bone in its place, then you praise your puppy.
4 Saying "No!"




If he nips in a situation when you don't want to let go of him (such as f.ex. when you trim the claws and you don't want to risk that he begins to believe that he can end the situation by nipping), you can f.ex. place his rump and belly along your one arm with the hand holding between/around his forearms, thus supporting both his back and front end with only one hand/arm and enabling you to hold your other hand under his muzzle, which gives you better control over his head.


If he nips because he is excited, try calming body language signals such as f.ex. :
turn your head away and look to the side,
slow down your movements,
lick yourself around your mouth quickly one or a few times,
look away a little and yawn,
if you're standing try and sit down instead or my favourite,
look towards your puppy/dog and slowly, slowly close and open your eyes a few times.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also Patches make sure the children are on board, so that they don't help turn the nipping into a big game (easily done - it is quite funny when they are small) - and as FLH says, keep everything calm and firm.

 

[CAYLA]

Sorry to worry you FLH......there was plenty of pills and booze in here

but im ok.

Re the needle teeth biting, as already suggested if u are on the floor with him, deter him with a raggy or toy and get him a nyla bone, if he is generally doing it when u stroke him, the stop, get up on the chair out of his reach, then after so long get back down and interact with him, again remove yourself if he starts, he wants u and your company so it's a negative reinforcer, also just putting your hands behind your back also works, he will try to get to them but sharp get bored and toddle off to find something else to do, he would play with his siblings in this way, u jsut have to substitute with toys during play and remove yourself or him during calm stroking time or your hands

 

[MurphysMinder]

Don't worry Patches, I feel guilty that I am considering breeding from Evie, although it is far from a definite at the moment. And yes I got her as a puppy, because I had a line of many generations which I lost as the last bitch I kept had too high a hip score to breed from. Evie is bred by someone who had their foundation bitch from me many years ago, and I waited 2 years for the mating which produced her so definitely not an impulse buy.
I was gutted last year when a bitch I bred was in need of a home at nearly 11 years old . I could have taken her back and kept her in a kennel but imo that would have been cruel, all I could do was help her owner in every way, and in the end there was a happy ending as they decided to keep her. I have started helping GSD rescue by home checking, and have had my heart strings tugged a few times by dogs on the site. But in some ways taken one on would be just as much an impulse buy as a cute puppy, falling for the sob story and ignoring the reality that I cannot cope with any more.
I like to think I am a aresponsible breeder and if we all stopped breeding it would be leaving the way clear for the "I've got a dog and bitch lets mate them" brigade. I think some people would be surprised how many breeders do help rescue kennels, be it with donations, home checks or whatever. I don't think anyone can say you must have a rescue, or you must have a puppy. However what many of us agree I think is that just having a litter because they are cute, or worse to make money, is totally wrong.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

Patches - re the nipping. Sweep did this lots and it bloody hurts!! the lady who bred him told me to do the following. Next time he is nipping (more like having a good chomp on my arm!!) get him by scruff and shake once and put on floor and then ignore. She said this was what their mother would do. I did it to Sweep 2 or 3 times then he stopped.

This was 12 years ago and I am sure I am about to be shot down in flames for saying it.....

*retreats and takes cover*

 

[Wishful]

I have no qualms about getting our dog as a puppy - especially after seeing 2 attempts at rescues by other vets failing because the dog couldn't cope with spending time in the car, or with people other than their owner (at work) when the weather was unsuitable for them to be in the car.

Having a puppy was hard work, but it is easier starting from a clean slate (OH first met Webley when Webs was less than a day old) with a puppy who had proven to be friendly and calm when being treated for eating a loo roll.

 

[PaddyMonty]

Up until recently Oh and I have had rescue dogs.
Started with two GSDs from a local centre which were 4 months old. 5 had been taken to a vets to be PTS as breeder couldn't sell them. Vet refused to do it and had them transfered to rescue centre. Both of these went on to be part of the Path finders display team with our proudest moment being when were invited to display at crufts.
When we lost the first of the two GSD (mine) we got a Saluki/greyhound cross from a rescue centre. She was in a terrible state but again proved to be a very loving girl.
When we lost the second of the GSDs we tried to rehome a greyhound from one of the large centres but as others have said, we got turned down as we had children. Crazy as we already had a GH cross

So we went back to local centre and found a greyhound there.
Another one found its way to our home a few months later

When I lost the GH cross I wanted a whippet. Could'nt find one in local rescue centres so ended up traveling to mid wales to get one from a centre there. The runt of a litter that no one wanted

This christmas we bought our first non rescue puppy. A whippet / iggy.
No I dont feel guilty at all.
We still have room for another whippet if we come across one that needs a home.

I dont have any pics of the GSDs but here are the rest of the crew.
The GH cross

Whippet in her favourite spot (my lap)

and with her new play mate, whippet/iggy cross

 

[itsme123]

Juno, which centre is it that allows rehoming with children? Pm me if you prefer.

We have a biggish garden, I'm home all day, and we'd love two dogs, but didnt want two puppies at the same time and would love to give a recue dog a home (later next year once we've got Rosie settled). All the centres over leicester way said no, because we have children and cats.

 

[PaddyMonty]

There are two in n'pton that do. One is near salcey forest, the other near welford. I will try and find names/contact numbers as cant remember them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Gah, no GSD display pics????? I *suppose* I can forgive you. Lovely longdogs, but I hate to tell you, they're not very good at homework.....

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Gah, no GSD display pics????? I *suppose* I can forgive you. Lovely longdogs, but I hate to tell you, they're not very good at homework.....

[/ QUOTE ]
I do have some display pics but not on laptop (pre digital camera era), will try to scan some in.
GH just sort of hopped on to the table. She decided my daughter was her 'person' and wasn't going to be sperated

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]

I was gutted last year when a bitch I bred was in need of a home at nearly 11 years old . I could have taken her back and kept her in a kennel but imo that would have been cruel, all I could do was help her owner in every way, and in the end there was a happy ending as they decided to keep her. I have started helping GSD rescue by home checking, and have had my heart strings tugged a few times by dogs on the site. But in some ways taken one on would be just as much an impulse buy as a cute puppy, falling for the sob story and ignoring the reality that I cannot cope with any more.

I like to think I am an irresponsible breeder and if we all stopped breeding it would be leaving the way clear for the "I've got a dog and bitch lets mate them" brigade.<font color="purple"> I think some people would be surprised how many breeders do help rescue kennels, be it with donations, home checks or whatever. </font> I don't think anyone can say you must have a rescue, or you must have a puppy. However what many of us agree I think is that just having a litter because they are cute, or worse to make money, is totally wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you tried your best, thanks to you, somebody on HHO went and looked at her with their bitch. But sadly, as you had been told, she really doesn't like other bitches and since you already have bitches, it didn't leave you many options. You never said or acted as if that after 11 years, it wasn't your problem any more, you did what you could and in fact, she didn't end up taking up any room at a rescue.

It is different for, f.ex. Cayla, if she gets in a dog that doesn't like other dogs/bitches they do not really have a chance, there is too many other dogs/bitches already living there, for a newcomer to be able to take them on, one by one.




About surprising supporters of rescue kennels, I have mentioned it before, but the chairman of Sweden's biggest dog rescue is also the executive director of the Swedish Kennelklubb. The rescue is supported by f.ex. the Swedish Kennelklubb and Stockholms Kennelklubb.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

[ QUOTE ]
Patches - re the nipping. Sweep did this lots and it bloody hurts!! the lady who bred him told me to do the following. Next time he is nipping (more like having a good chomp on my arm!!) get him by scruff and shake once and put on floor and then ignore. She said this was what their mother would do. I did it to Sweep 2 or 3 times then he stopped.

This was 12 years ago and I am sure I am about to be shot down in flames for saying it.....

*retreats and takes cover*

[/ QUOTE ]

Anders Hallgren (Europe's first dog psychologist) did a study on bitches with puppies, his conclusion was that in general, only bitches with bad temperament or bitches without retreat possibilities, picks up their puppies in the scruff to give them a shake to make them stop doing something, on a regular basis.

As I recall, to see if he was correct, he made those who had their bitches with puppies in a dog kennel, put in a table that only the bitches was big enough to get up on and suddenly, those bitches also always preferred to chose the option of simply retreating out of the puppies reach.



This was not meant to sound as if I tried to shoot you down, I have heard "your" breeders method described by several others before and I will probably come across it again, however I consider it an obsolete method that at the most, only very rarely should be used.