Christmas Livery

I've never had a horse on full livery but personally quite shocked, doesn't seem a very merry Xmas horse to stand in **** all day. I'd be happy for the yard to say it's double or treble for Xmas as fairly that's what it costs. To me seems much fairer to give owners the choice to pay or have a diy day not just leave the horses to there own devices. I don't think risk of injury is fair and a couple of vets have told me about having to deal with colic cases in dubious full livery yards over Xmas probably due to sub-standard care and horse running out of forage.
 
Never been on anything apart from DIY livery. My friend and I share fields and responsibilities together. Last Xmas though, both of us were away so another good friend of mine did them.

I can see both sides. Yes, if you are on full livery then you would expect some service. This is being offered albeit a reduced one. No, I wouldn't particularly want my pony standing in a dirty bed but it isn't for days. They're quite happy to lie in poo the night before a show so they're not really fussed are they?!

The yards that have owners turning up and "mucking in" to muck out is a nice way to ensure routine for the horses there.
 
When I worked full time with animals not quite the same as a livery as I worked in a private zoo the animals still had to be fed, watered, exercised and cleaned out I had to work christmas as the zoo was owned by a school so all the kids had gone home for christmas I got a day off when they came back in term time. the same applied for every school holiday I did the animals my only days off holidays etc could be taken when the kids were in the building as they did them when I wasnt there under supervision of the teacher who organised the zoo. So if I was paying for full livery I would expect the same service as any other day I may not worry too much about exercise but I would expect turnout, feed hay muck out and the exact same routine as any other day as horses are such creatures of routine and are easily upset. Unless like mine things ar random all the time but I doubt a big livery yard could work without a strict routine
 
Checking what the arrangements are at Christmas is a point I always make when I move to a new yard. I have chosen not to move to a yard before as no services were offered at Christmas.

Normal services have been available on all 3 yards that I have on over the years ( all assisted DIY).

It's all very well saying people should sort their own horses and don't YO's deserve a day off, but I'm normally away from home visiting family and it's just not logistically possible. I also work hard all year and I don't think some quality time at Christmas with family is too much to ask for, without the added stress of trying to arrange someone to look after my horse.

I'm happy to pay a premium for the service by the way.
 
I can see both sides and to be honest I believe the YM should do what they see fit on those days as long as it does not compromise welfare as everybody is entitled to a piece of the day .Shock horror a lot of liveries are happy to not give a stuff about their horse on christmas day as long as their day is perfect.
However I have every sympathy with YOs who refuse to do add on services on any day for assisted liveries because just as much as its your choice to do it and not pay somedays it is theres not to do it .
 
I do my livery horses at Christmas, but at a higher rate. I'm more than happy for liveries to help eachother out instead if they prefer, but it seems that they'd rather spend Christmas with their own families. Of course, this means that I never get to see my side of the family at Christmas (5+ hours away). I'd love for my sons to spend Christmas with their other grandparents and uncle/aunt, but sadly I've always got work here to do. It seems it would be selfish of me to want a few days off for myself while liveries looked after their own horses.
 
pixie said:
I do my livery horses at Christmas, but at a higher rate.
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Charging a higher daily rate on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day is fair and reasonable. Say triple the usual rate.
It seems it would be selfish of me to want a few days off for myself while liveries looked after their own horses.
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I'm sorry, but if you provide full livery, that should be available 365 days per year. By all means have your few days off, but have them at another time.

It's quite an eye opener reading the posts which are slagging off full livery clients for wanting to be away at Christmas. They are paying for the privilege of being free to choose when they see their horse or when they are away. Just move the main Christmas day celebrations and family get togethers to another time, like people in other jobs have to.

I was brought up in a family full of doctors, who had to work and be on call throughout the holiday. You just work around it.

NB I keep mine at home so don't have to go through this whole charade, we stay home every Christmas and New Year and the horses' routine is unchanged.
 
Haven't read all replies. Just going with gut instinct reply. I have never done full livery. However, if I was paying for full livery, I would expect Christmas Day to be the same as any other. Then my choice as to whether I visit horse or not. What if the horse owner has to work Christmas Day.? Surely if it is a business, it's down to the business owner to arrange cover. I have had jobs (not horsey) where shifts have been done, Maybe work Christmas day but have Boxing day off. Alternate each year. I suppose it depends on the yard. As to is it a real business, or someone getting a bit of cash to look after someone elses horse.
 
That's the thing, we don't really get any time off, ever.
Eldest is at school, which limits the times we can take off. Husband is a farmer, so we can't go away at all over the summer. And half term/holidays, guess what, liveries want their horses looking after! Not sure when you expect those few days off to magically appear from...
 
Tiddlypom said:
I'm sorry, but if you provide full livery, that should be available 365 days per year. By all means have your few days off, but have them at another time.

It's quite an eye opener reading the posts which are slagging off full livery clients for wanting to be away at Christmas. They are paying for the privilege of being free to choose when they see their horse or when they are away. Just move the main Christmas day celebrations and family get togethers to another time, like people in other jobs have to.
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Seriously???
The YO provides the service, it is up to them to decide what the terms of that service are. If they want to have a bit of a break on Christmas Day, that is 100% their prerogative. As a horse owner, if you know you will be away at Christmas, you need to make sure that full livery will be available on that day when you move onto the yard. According to you, the YO has to provide care on Christmas Day because they choose to run a full livery service...but the horse owner chooses to own a horse, they have to accept responsibility for that horse! I can understand keeping a horse on full livery, but I can't understand the absolute horror expressed by some posters on this thread that they might, one day a year, be expected to care for their own horse. If the YO wants to provide a full service on Christmas Day, fair enough. If not, that is their right so long as they give the owner plenty of notice, which they have done in the YO's case.

Also, I don't understand why people seem to think the YO is compromising the welfare of the horses. They have simply said that they won't be mucking out on Christmas Day, but the owner is welcome to muck the horse out themselves or make alternate arrangements.

Personally, I wouldn't just expect someone to muck my horse out on Christmas Day, full livery or no. If I knew I would be going away for Christmas, I would make sure I knew well in advance whether or not normal service was provided, so that I could make alternate arrangements if need be. But then again, maybe it's because I've worked as a full time groom and understand how hard people work in the equine industry, and for how little money.
 
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Personally I'm stunned that full livery yards don't offer normal service over X as??!! My yard is DIY with all services offered as extras. On Xmas day I confess I will only either turn out or bring in, and that's only if I don't have to change rugs but I wouldn't dream of not offering this as a minimum. I do charge a bit extra though which I think is only fair as its a huge convenience for those that need it, so I like to think everyone is happy with that? If I were offering full livery, I would just offer one of the grooms double time and charge to clients. I'm sure this wouldn't be a problem would it? All things considered, this is one of the reasons I didn't want to do full livery, it's too restricting!
 
pixie said:
it seems that they'd rather spend Christmas with their own families.
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Actually I would love to spend time with the horses on Christmas day, when I was a kid and lived walking distance from the stables, it was great to get away from my family.

Unfortunately these days I can't - and it's can't not won't.#

And those that say make other arrangements please make suggestions. The yard won't want me to get a stranger in and have to give them security codes
 
Yards I've been on have always mucked out liveries on Xmas day but not turned out. I'm ok with that the horses are all fine especially as all the horses are staying in they don't seem to stress. I wouldn't want him not to be mucked out though. They wont

When I've been on DIY and needed to go away as I've no family locally I've always found someone to do it for a big Xmas bonus :)
 
I am on 7 day part livery and my pony and the other 7 day part liveries will have the same service as they would get on others days in the year. They will be turned out, mucked out and feed as normal, though I think there will be some flexibility with catch in times. If I was able to be at the yard I would go up and help out doing my pony and also helping out with others if need be. If my family lived near the yard I expect they would enjoy coming up and helping too as we normally go for a walk xmas afternoon so it is nice to get out of the house for a while.

My family do not live in the UK and the only time we all get together is xmas so I have to be on a yard that offers services xmas and boxing day at least. However I do respect that the same may apply to those who work on yards too.

I do think staff should be paid extra for working bank holidays and xmas etc but this should be factored into the price of providing the 7 day livery. With the 7 day liveries YO can plan because she knows how many are on the 7 day service and so how many staff will be needed on bank holidays and factor that in to the costs of providing the livery throughout the year. With 5 day or assisted DIY it is a bit harder to plan in advance as people might not book services so far in advance. If you have horses on 7 day livery all year round you know how many people you are going to need to look after them and how much income you are going to get in so it is much easier to plan for, whereas if you offer assisted DIY then it is harder because you may not know how many horses you are going to need to be looking after each day that far in advance so staffing is more complicated.

If you are on 7 day livery and the yard are not able to provide full services over the xmas will they allow you to use a freelance groom to cover this period if you can't go yourself - an added complication is that some yards may not let you get someone else in to do your horse due to security reasons.


The whole reason I am on 7 day livery is that I want the reassurance that my pony is cared for all at times, I don't live very near the yard and even though I only work 5 days a week so I could probably do 5 part livery and save quite a bit of money, but having him on 7 days means I don't need to worry about xmas or if I can't get to the yard at the weekend due to snow or illness for example.



I wonder how this works with horses on competition livery or retirement livery where the owners may live very far away?
 
I think both sides have to consider each other. It's up to the YO to set the standard as to what's available on Xmas day and the client to either accept that when they move to the yard, or find somewhere that offers what they need.
I'm DIY so have always done my own horse over Xmas but I used to be a groom years ago.
On the big yard that did part and full (where part meant everything but excersise, and full included excersise), there were 30 odd horses. On Xmas day and Boxing Day, the horses were not turned out (at that time of year they only went out for half a day, every other day) but were fed/hayed/watered, skipped out and bedding added. Many of the liveries would come up and muck out/ride on those days.
On the small private yard, I only had to work AM Xmas day for a couple of hours, YO helped out (which she did quite often anyway), again horses weren't turned out, but were mucked out. The other groom did PM.
If I were a full livery, if I couldn't make it up myself, I'd want my horse fed/hayed/watered and skipped out. Staying in for one day won't hurt, and whilst I agree there are certain jobs that you sign up for where you know you have to work weekends/bank holidays, I think in the case of yards, things can be done without compromising welfare to allow staff to have a slightly easier day.
 
criso said:
And those that say make other arrangements please make suggestions. The yard won't want me to get a stranger in and have to give them security codes
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The yard will have to. Some people have suggested it's a welfare issue for the yard to deny mucking out and turnout on those two days. I disagree. Those are possibly the only two days out of 365 when they can possibly hope that people will be free to look after their own horses or at least know someone who will be but if you, personally, can't get to the yard, they must meet you halfway and allow access to someone else.

When I worked at a livery yard, Christmas day and NY were just like any other, except we got up even earlier to fit everything in! Up at four, out to the horses, in for a massive breakfast, out again until Christmas dinner (I was a live in groom). Then back out to bring in, feed and tuck everyone in. I loved it!
 
When I had my own yard it was business as usual. We did our celebrating in the evening. Horses mucked out and turned out at 5am, full liveries ridden, then all brought in at 5pm, groomed and put to bed.

Where I am now we don't ride, but everything gets turned out, mucked out, and then we go home for lunch. Come back at 3, bring in and put to bed and then we're done. Anything hunting on Boxing Day stays in and gets a bath though.
 
We only have DIYs so not an issue for us. Not being mucked out on Christmas Day is hardly a welfare issue, I'm sure the horses couldn't care less. I assume they will be given extra bedding so if mine were on full livery then not being mucked out so that staff could enjoy Christmas Day would not bother me at all.
 
When I worked at a yard with full liveries, Christmas day was exactly the same as any other day. We weren't even paid extra for working bank holidays. The grooms either worked Christmas day or New Year's day, we worked it out between ourselves.

I'd be really unimpressed if a full livery yard refused to do my horse over Christmas, the whole point of forking out for f/l is that someone else does your horse because you can't/don't want to.
 
Glad I'm DIY, I don't find it acceptable to leave a horse not mucked out for 24 hours or longer even with turnout. Without is appalling.

I do agree its up to the yard to set the parameters of what they can or can't provide, however unless this is clearly agreed and stated at time of agreeing contract for service, so that livery know what to expect and provide cover accordingly, it is outrageous to just not provide contracted service like any other day.

Bet they don't give clients a discount on livery for services not provided!

The horses welfare should not be compromised. As for the vet/accident excuse, that is just balderdash. What about the higher likelihood of colic or stress related incidents because the horses have their normal routine disrupted.
 
Doublethyme said:
The horses welfare should not be compromised. As for the vet/accident excuse, that is just balderdash. What about the higher likelihood of colic or stress related incidents because the horses have their normal routine disrupted.
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Most horses are used to spending the odd day in, mine certainly are.
If your horses colic at such a small change in routine then there is something seriously wrong with them and God help you if you ever went to a show which would completely ruin their precious routine, or God forbid a week long championship show where they are generally stuck in all week.
Or box rest?
1 day in their stable with their usual hay/haylege and feed will not cause any harm at all
 
I'm not saying they would colic, I was using it as an example to show how ridiculous the excuse of vets/injury is to keep a horse in. They are just as likely to need a vet in a stable as out.

Leave yourself horse in, but don't hide behind the injury excuse.

For what its worth my horses can stable or turnout and God has nothing to say about it ;-)
 
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In yards Ive been in, everyone has mucked in together on Christmas Day to get all the jobs done- some yards we even had a Xmas morning ride-out.
Horses arent goin to be harmed by one day skipped instead of mucked out, or staying in. Yard owners/managers are entitled to spend time with their families on Xmas day should they want to. Yes OP, IMHO you are definately being Bah Humbug!!
 
Doublethyme said:
I'm not saying they would colic, I was using it as an example to show how ridiculous the excuse of vets/injury is to keep a horse in. They are just as likely to need a vet in a stable as out.

Leave yourself horse in, but don't hide behind the injury excuse.

For what its worth my horses can stable or turnout and God has nothing to say about it ;-)
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Horses are at less risk in thier stable as they arnt galloping around on potentially slippy ground.
Mine is perfectly settled in his stable so at no greater risk of colic if he spends a day in and id really rather not invite a vet bill on Christmas Day ruining my Christmas, my yard owners Christmas and the vets Christmas.
 
Doublethyme said:
Glad I'm DIY, I don't find it acceptable to leave a horse not mucked out for 24 hours or longer even with turnout. Without is appalling.

I do agree its up to the yard to set the parameters of what they can or can't provide, however unless this is clearly agreed and stated at time of agreeing contract for service, so that livery know what to expect and provide cover accordingly, it is outrageous to just not provide contracted service like any other day.

Bet they don't give clients a discount on livery for services not provided!

The horses welfare should not be compromised. As for the vet/accident excuse, that is just balderdash. What about the higher likelihood of colic or stress related incidents because the horses have their normal routine disrupted.
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I can see why some would want their horses to be kept in their usual routine but to say standing in for one day not mucked out is a compromise to horse welfare is way over the top in my opinion.
 
conniegirl said:
Mine is perfectly settled in his stable so at no greater risk of colic if he spends a day in and id really rather not invite a vet bill on Christmas Day ruining my Christmas, my yard owners Christmas and the vets Christmas.
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Vets tend to be rather busy at Christmas. Animals, (not just horses), are often given a different routine to fit in with their owner's festive plans, and hey ho, suffer as a result.

No one is 'entitled' to spend Christmas as they choose. They can 'elect' to spend it as they wish, which is another thing altogether.
 
Years ago when I was on full livery ( which was everything including riding) the horses were done as normal except they were't ridden. A few years later I was DIY on a yard that also did part livery (everything done except exercise). On Xmas day and Boxing Day the part liveries stayed in and were fed, hayed and watered and a bale of straw put in each day over the muck. To be honest none of the horses seemed to be adversely affected.

I keep my horses at home now so they go out in the morning but come in at noon so that we can go to my family for lunch.

As long as the horse has hay, feed and water I don't feel it is really comprising their welfare. However I also think it is something that needs to be told to perspective liveries before they join a yard.
 
Every yard i had been at used to ask people to do their own horses Christmas day to help out, was never a problem for me as they used to take it off my bill and i used to go up and ride anyway. I don't think it's a massive ask tbh. He was my horse and ultimately my responsibility! He was only on livery as i worked odd/late shifts and couldn't drive at the time.
 
The reason we leave in is that for the middle part of the day there is no one at the yard and myself and my staff want to spend a few hours with family ( as just once it's nice to put family before horses!)
I do not turn out or leave horses out without staff there as a matter of course daily, I have full time staff that are there to grab horses in should their be an incident. They will not be there all day xams day so my liveries are happy to leave in.
They really won't keel over from a couple of says days in as long as they are walked out in hand on one of the two days.
I go to dressage camp for three or four days and they are in the whole time except the hour you have for a lesson and they cope.
I would not leave horses not mucked out and we do muck out the full liveries both ends of the day on Xmas day and boxing day .
It has worked perfectly well so far .
And its not injuries I ' hide behind'. I am not so stupid to not know that an injury can happen in a box but let's be honest it's far more likely to happen in the field otherwise vets wouldn't ever suggest box rest for injuries.
The issue of not an incident happening but the lack of anyone there to sort it and therefore the length of time before it is discovered.
When the horse broke its leg it was sheer luck anyone was there as we were just about to go home for dinner.
 
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