Chronically unfit horse update - FAO IceStation Zebra especially!

[Acolyte]

Well things have been going really well exercise-wise with the horse, I have taken him into the school for the past couple of days and he has not been as bad as I remembered

So we have had fun doing some schooling (well, I have

) and have done some canter work without the horse getting exhausted and taking ages to recover.

However I have just had a text from the owner regarding the horses feed - I asked her if she had asked the YO to reduce the feed. Owner has said that the vet was told how much the horse was fed each day, and he said that was fine but to step up the exercise

The horse is a 16hh very good doer, and is out at grass 24/7. It is fed twice a day, being given a scoop of mix, half a scoop of Alfa-A and a scoop of sugarbeet at each meal

In terms of exercise it has been hacked for 45 mins - 1 hour daily, a mixture of walking and trotting!

Personally I fed my Selle Francais about that much hard feed when he was eventing once a fortnight

YO said to me 'oh they havent got much grass out in the field' - well surely you would replace grass with hay, not more bloody hard feed

I feel really sick now I have had that from the owner, I am seriously worried about this horses fitness and she seems oblivious to it. She hasnt ridden the horse for a month now, she has no idea of how his breathing really is when he does canter work, and I feel that she is just getting tetchy with me now I am querying what she does with the horse even though I am trying very very hard to be tactful.

I almost feel like walking away and saying I wont ride the horse any more, I am now putting loads of work into him in terms of exercise only to have it all undone by the YO's ridiculous feeding regieme

 

[Acolyte]

Obviously after 54 viewings with no comments not everyone agrees with my point of view

 

[rss07]

I haven't read any of the preceding information, but it does sound like concentrate heavy meals. I think I would have something like that on Happy hoof and a hand ful of mix, but maybe I'm a meany. I agree would def up the roughage if they're low on grass.

must be really hard trying to negotiate that sort of thing when its not your horse.

 

[Acolyte]

Phew, thank you, I thought I had got it all wrong here

I agree entirely, if he were my horse I would be feeding a balancer/supplement thing with a handful of mix at the most, once or twice a day....

Not quite sure where to go from here, I really dont have the time to be riding him for an hour and a half a day which is what it needs for him to lose weight and get fitter if he is getting that much feed

 

[rss07]

I suspect that someone will come up with a succinct and straightforward way of putting it to her, but I am not managing to come up with one. I think its because its gone 9 pm.

 

[Keltic]

Can you not get his owner down to hear how bad his breathing is? This might make her realise he needs to diet and cut his food by half and cut out the sugarbeet? It sounds like your in a catch 22 tbh though and banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[Cop-Pop]

I have my 15.1 TBx on 1/3 scoop maintenence nuts a day and one scoop of chaff plus vits and mins. She gets about 2 -3 hours work a week. She's not a good doer by any stretch of the imagination - the rest of her feed is haylage and grass. If I fed her that much I wouldn't be able to sit on her

Is the YO/owner feeding her that much because the horse is a bit lazy? Could you suggest other feeds that give a bit more fizz but you could feed less of?

 

[Acolyte]

I would love to do that, but she tends to come up to the yard during the day when I am at work

Hopefully when her children go back to school she will start riding again and will realise what I have been talking about...

I do feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall though, I have been arguing with the YO for about 3 months now saying the horse is fed way to much and now the bloody vet has said 'oh no its fine'

No wonder I wont use that practice, they were also completely rubbish when the same horse got a blackthorn in his shoulder and allowed the abscess to remain for about 4 months before they did anything

 

[kirstyhen]

Jesus, I must been a horrible mummy, Hen gets half a scoop of nuts (if that!) and a handful of Alfa-A once a day, he only gets fed so that he can have his supplements and for a bit of extra oomph (his cubes are racing cubes!!

). He's doing about an hours work a day, 6 days a week and often a competition at the weekend.
He is on fairly lush grazing, but he would only get extra hay not more hard feed.

What vet would recommend all that food for something in light work??

 

[Acolyte]

[ QUOTE ]
What vet would recommend all that food for something in light work??

[/ QUOTE ]

The main vet from a certain practice based near a local equine college

Bet this thread gets deleted by Admin now

I just cant understand it though - YO said the mix is v low nutritional content, to which I would ask 'if it is that rubbish, why feed it at all'

 

[jesterfaerie]

Sorry I missed the first post.
Could you possibly ring a different vet up and ask for their opinion on the matter and if it is different from the first very mention this to the owner.
I personally would not feel the horse anything at all other than grass (if he needs a balancer then no more than a handfull of something like lo cal chaff from spillers I think).
I do think that although the exercise could be stepped up the horse is being fed ALOT (imo) so that would need to be reduced.
What does the YO say about it all?
Has the owner seen him recently and seen how his breathing is and what his recovery rate is in comparison to a fit horse?

 

[Acolyte]

[ QUOTE ]
I have my 15.1 TBx on 1/3 scoop maintenence nuts a day and one scoop of chaff plus vits and mins. She gets about 2 -3 hours work a week. She's not a good doer by any stretch of the imagination - the rest of her feed is haylage and grass. If I fed her that much I wouldn't be able to sit on her

Is the YO/owner feeding her that much because the horse is a bit lazy? Could you suggest other feeds that give a bit more fizz but you could feed less of?

[/ QUOTE ]

TBH I think that is what the horse gets fed in the winter when he is hunting - which is fair enough! It just doesnt seem to get adjusted at all during the summer

The horse is incredibly spooky and nappy when hacking or in the school, in fact his owner commented on it when she last rode him, and I suggested it could be cos he was being fed too much!

I still am gobsmacked by the YO's lack of basic horsecare ability

 

[CracklinRosie]

That is a rediculous amount of hard feed for a horse who's not doing much. My horse does about the same and is fit and I only give her 1/2 scoop of Baileys no4 and 1 scoop safe and sound a day. She's a 16.2hh TBX.

I have had a feeding issue with a loanee before and tried to make a joke out of the fact that she was making my horse fat but that didn't work. Had to have a hard word but that didn't work either. Unfortunately you may be hitting your head against a brick wall here.

Sorry this isn't much help but I'm not sure what else you can do apart from get you the owner and the YO together with horse because you're concerned for his welfare!

 

[Acolyte]

Unfortunately JF, the YO is the problem as far as feeding is concerned! The horse is on full livery so she is responsible for feeding him, however she flatly refuses to acknowledge that the horse is overweight and really cannot seem to see that he is! When we argued about it last weekend she said 'oh but you can see his belly line is OK' - when I pointed out he has totally loaded shoulders (rolls of fat on them) and that he is far too covered over the ribs she said 'that is the way he is built - he isnt a TB you know'

The owner has been up to the yard a couple of times recently to see the horse but hasnt seem him exercised, I did tell her via text message how worried I was and how poor his recovery rate is, but she is being guided by the YO and now the vet

Not sure why I am getting so worked up here about a horse which is not even mine, but I hate seeing a horse in effect badly treated when it is so unnecessary

 

[kirstyhen]

Well I can't work out which vet it is, so I reckon you'll be fine!

I only know one vet in the area, not that impressed with them either TBH!

[ QUOTE ]

I just cant understand it though - YO said the mix is v low nutritional content, to which I would ask 'if it is that rubbish, why feed it at all'

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the sugar beet and Alfa-A are going to add weight, sounds like the Alfa should be swapped for something like Hi-Fi, and cut out the sugar beet or at least half it. I have no idea why anyone would be feeding that much already though.

Hen only gets that much through the winter, when he has poo grazing, is clipped head to toe and hunting once a week, plus schooling, competing and hacking!!

 

[The Original Kao]

shame you weren't near me, my vet positively (can't spell tonight) hates to see overweight horses. he'd well be having words with the YO

 

[jesterfaerie]

Why not print off this post and show her and say that you don't want to disrespect her opinion but you really feel that the welfare of the horse is at stake and other people think that his feed should be reduced. I know it may be a stupid idea but suggest a compromise of for the next two months she does not feed him anything and if he looks better and appears fitter then he stays off the feed, if nothing changes then she can continue feeding him.

I would also have a ration calculation drawn up for him to show he is getting fed too much.

 

[Cop-Pop]

Give some of the feed companies a call - some of them come out to see you. D&H came out to see my mare when I first got her

They spoke to my vet and they worked out a diet plan ( for gaining weight, not losing it) and best thing I got loads of free samples

 

[icestationzebra]

Hello! Just seen this. Ridiculous amount of food - what is the YO thinking of? My event fit 16.3 doesn't get fed anything like that quantity and is still slightly more curvacious that I would like

If he were mine I'd actually take him off the grass for a period of time a day and just let him have some very well soaked hay. If he has little grass he could stay out but have the same soaked hay in the field. That way his gut is still active but he is not taking on board calories. A vit/min supplement and some token carrots/apples would be the only other feed he would get. Bit disappointed in the vets attitude to be honest - I wouldn't expect them to give expert nutritional advice but would expect them to recognise a fat horse and advise rethinking his feeding programme. It's very hard to know what to suggest to do next to be honest.... could you speak to an equine nutritionist for some advice. The team at Allen & Page are very good, also the people at Top Spec. I think if you stress to the owner that you only have the horses health and therefore keeping her 'vet bills' down, at heart she might just take a bit of notice......

 

[Acolyte]

Thanks for your reply ISZ

Interestingly I went to the yard this morning to ride and the horse was still scooting an empty feed bowl around the stable as if he had just been fed. I went and found the YOs partner to ask why he had been fed when I was riding, and she said 'oh he has only had a handful to catch him, he is getting hardly any feed now'

So it actually sounds like his feed HAS been cut down, but the YO hasnt told the owner or changed the whiteboard where the feeds are recorded! YO herself has been away but should be around this week so I will ask her what is happening - if she hasnt cut the feed down then I will phone the owner rather than texting and will discuss with her the way forward.

Thanks very much for everyone for your input, it has reassured me that I am not going completely mad and that my thoughts on feeding are correct

Fingers crossed we can get this sorted and get the horse fitter and healthier