CIC* - Worth it?

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Joss

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Finally getting round to making a spring eventing campaign. The short term aim is Balcarres CCI*. Horse is already qualified for 1* so it doesnt really matter what we do but he had an injury last season so wanting to start off gently. Therefore the plan is Eden Valley Open BE100 then Auchinleck Novice. I then looked at Central Scotland & they dont have a normal Intermediate but do have a CIC* but it blooming pricey compared to Novice. So my question is - will it be suitably more meaty XC?

I often see CIC* classes have plenty in them - why? Whats the point? Are they not just slightly glorified ODE class? Opinions please?:)
 
Do they not have lots of people in them as you can get your CCI* qualification by completing a CIC*?

I think they are a bit meatier but I'm only going on jump judging experience, usually there are more combinations so a bit more technical
 
IME most (not all) CIC*s are glorified Novices, with a few extra fences or an extra element coming out of the water or whatever. Brand Hall is meatier as they combine the CIC with the Pony Champs which is a largely separate course from the Novice, and Burgie used to be quite tough I thought as it used a lot of the CCI* course, just left out a loop. I think to a degree it depends where they start from - both these examples have bigger courses which they use as a starting point, other places (Gatcombe for example) seem to use the Novice as a starting point. So you'll have to get someone who knows CS specifically to comment.

They are quite popular, aren't they? I think a lot of people who think this may be their only route to wearing a tailcoat do them. I think pros sometimes use them either to impress owners or to put value on horses they plan to sell, also sometimes they shamelessly "pot hunt" with more experienced horses if the cash prize is good - and why not, there are no restrictions ;) I'm by no means anti them but equallly not convinced you need to use them unless you want to - you need to deliver a decent dressage to be in with a shout, for sure.

That's my view anyway :)
 
I agree with TD, in fact before reading her reply I was thinking "I'd only ever bother doing one with a horse who did a VERY smart dressage..." because they are very expensive and imho it's usually just a glorified Novice track, with maybe a couple of Int-ish difficulty combinations but at Novice dimensions.
Personally I'd always follow the old qualification route and do at least 1 intermediate clear before doing a CCI* though, even though it's not a qualification necessity any more. Just gives you more confidence. The dearth of Int runs up north really is a nightmare. You need a road trip dahn sarf.
does CS usually have an Int track? If so, they might be sort of half-and-halfing the N/I tracks to make the CIC* track, maybe. If it doesn't though then you'd be relying on them building new fences. Maybe email the organiser and ask?
 
I think they are a complete cash cow for organisers - £120 entry compared to £80 on average for IN and get to call the event an International. Do you really get that much more for the extra £40 entry?

I think its a shame as we are going to see less and less IN.
 
i'm going to go against the grain and say yes they are great to do, but maybe that is due to the horse I had and experience I had. I loved the international feel, staying over, wearing top hat and tails, and just the experience but then I couldn't do CCI due to trot up issues so in hind sight with sounder horse prob just do Intermediate to qualify and CCI*'s.
 
LEC said:
I think they are a complete cash cow for organisers - £120 entry compared to £80 on average for IN and get to call the event an International. Do you really get that much more for the extra £40 entry?

I think its a shame as we are going to see less and less IN.
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Yes and no.

The entries I've been looking at are around £100, so not much more than an Int and I've done the subject to death before, but there just aren't the INs around for us to enter. There are (barring Allerton) none within 3hrs of me and those that are almost doable are at the end of the season - I really would prefer them earlier on.

I think it might be a geographical point but if you've trawled round most of the local Novices, a lot of which don't alter much from year to year, then it's nice to do something with a bit more cache and a slightly different format. I would never expect to come anywhere in a CIC* (whereas I'd hope to do reasonably well at Nov), but that's because there might be 80 competitors and they do tend to be of a higher class.

Central Scotland has a Novice, CIC*, OI and CIC2* so I'd expect the CIC* to be a slightly stronger version of the Nov (ditto the CIC2* and the OI).

Really it comes down to whatever floats your boat. I'm unlikely to go very far up the eventing ladder so I like the opportunity to run in an 'international' (and I use the apostrophes advisedly!) class at an achievable level. It does feel like something a little bit more special and I don't mind being a small fish in a big pond. If you don't need the qualification you can please yourself, but it's a nice concept with a bit more challenge than the Nov, you're already FEI registered etc. so why not give it a whirl?
 
Joss said:
I often see CIC* classes have plenty in them - why? Whats the point? Are they not just slightly glorified ODE class? Opinions please?:)
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I've done 3 CIC*'s to date and no CCI*'s because I cant afford them! The entry fee and stabling is far heftier having to stay 3/4 days for example. Whereas the CIC* near me is local enough I don't need to stable and the entry fee is much cheaper. Burgie this year is only running a CIC* as its biggest class, no more 3 days.
 
Yes definitely worth it - the dressage is a little bit more testing (and has usually better judging), the showjumping is 1.15m not 1.10m and the cross country often has more combinations. Depending on where you go also, the showumping can be run as the last phase - great practice for a CCI* On the downside, often they are run over two days and you need FEI registration and 6 month vaccinations.
 
horses1 said:
Yes definitely worth it - the dressage is a little bit more testing (and has usually better judging), the showjumping is 1.15m not 1.10m and the cross country often has more combinations. Depending on where you go also, the showumping can be run as the last phase - great practice for a CCI* On the downside, often they are run over two days and you need FEI registration and 6 month vaccinations.
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Well tbF the dressage is quite a bit easier than Int and not really harder than the trickier novice tests, maybe a tiny bit... The SJ is a hole up from Novice, same as IN as pointed out by someone, but again a lot smaller than Int - I might take a horse (or pony ;)) that I didn't fancy attempting a 1.25m SJ track on... Don't know about the Northern ones but to my knowledge none of the southern ones do SJ after XC...
 
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Fwiw I reckon they're handy for my purposes - one horse amateur - longer more technical track but not enormous if you make mistakes :o, sj last is a bonus where it happens and altogether more atmosphere than a n / in. Useful stepping stone I guess...
 
Hmmmm Thank you very much Lots of various opinions just what I was after. I must say I agree that I wouldnt like to use a CIC* as a 'fast track' CCI qualification - you definitely need to have gained the experience of a good handful (armful!?) of Novice clears before you do a CCI & ideally an Intermediate run or 2.

From what I gather it seems to vary alot how much stiffer than a normal Novice a CIC* is. I think this is the 1st time this class has run at CS, so no benefits of experience on that front. It would be absolutely ideal if it was the novice with a good handful of Intermediate fences included but having run at the Scottish Novice champs the other year & they included just ONE extra fence from the normal novice I dont quite trust that will happen. The entry fee when compared to the Intermediate isnt so very different but will it be £30 worth better than the novice?!!

So meanwhile we will getting cracking with the dressage schooling & put it on the definitely maybe list:D;)
 
horses1 said:
Only expressing my opinion Table Dancer !!!! Will not bother in future if this is the attitude on this forum.
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Aww no, dont take the huff. We are having a wee debate. Just differing opinions which is exactly what we are after. Each opinion definitely counts & thats what makes the open forum a useful tool.
 
horses1 said:
Only expressing my opinion Table Dancer !!!! Will not bother in future if this is the attitude on this forum.
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Whoaaaaa!! No offence intended :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sorry, just dashed off a quick response inbetween chores - apologies if it came over as sharp :o I think I was factually correct but certainly didn't in any way mean to upset anyone so, once again, huge grovelling apologies for poor wording :rolleyes:

Please don't give up on the forum on my account, it's a weird old place but we are pretty harmless on the whole :o :D

ETA: I should have said, I think your point about SJ after XC is very valid in that it's a useful skill to practise and find out how they are going to react before you are in a high pressure, last day of three day lots of money at stake situation, but I honestly don't think there are many 1* CICs which offer this scenario, it's mainly the higher level ones...
 
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LEC - I don't think it is completely accurate to say they are a cash cow for organisers as they have more expenses. As well as a TD, there has to be 2 ground jury members, an FEI steward and a veterinary delegate all there for 3/4 days (one day longer than the competition runs for) and their travel/food expenses and accomodation has to be paid for. The XC course has to be longer than a novice and is supposed to be a bit more technical although this is an area where organisers tend to cut a corner so many CICs in this country tend to be only just to the level. I don't know what they have to pay the FEI but that is another expense.
As to whether they are worth doing, it will vary from horse to horse (and the rider as well). They can give an aim to those that intermediate is a step too far or for horses/riders that are not so ambitious. For less experienced riders they are a good introduction to the FEI system and are part of the learning curve. To be successful you have to be able to do a good test and be a careful show jumper.
 
TableDancer said:
Whoaaaaa!! No offence intended :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sorry, just dashed off a quick response inbetween chores - apologies if it came over as sharp :o I think I was factually correct but certainly didn't in any way mean to upset anyone so, once again, huge grovelling apologies for poor wording :rolleyes:

Please don't give up on the forum on my account, it's a weird old place but we are pretty harmless on the whole :o :D

ETA: I should have said, I think your point about SJ after XC is very valid in that it's a useful skill to practise and find out how they are going to react before you are in a high pressure, last day of three day lots of money at stake situation, but I honestly don't think there are many 1* CICs which offer this scenario, it's mainly the higher level ones...
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Chatsworth does and I think in the past Hutton in the Forest has. No offence taken
 
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