Claiming against a YO/YM

0ldmare

0ldmare

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So, according to the 'unique' logic of NL, when is it appropriate to claim against a YO insurance?

Such vitriol aimed at the poor lady with the broken arm because she dares to claim against what sounds like a completely uninterested and bone idle YO surprises me. Why is that? Is it because she is claiming against a YO (that hallowed species that can never be wrong), or would the vitriol be the same irrespective of who it was 'cos we dont like people sueing'

So, I'm interested to know - just how bad does a YO/YM have to be for it to be OK to make a claim on their insurance? :)
 
I have to say her YO sounds like he is not that approachable and cooperative and that is bound to make someone angry. However, assuming that is not the case and that the YO is a really nice person and approachable and caring, then I think it is a pretty rotten thing to do to claim against him/her because you slipped on the yard. I am not against making claims in all circumstances. For example, if YO leaves fome farming equipment in the menage or field and you fall off and impale yourself or something! Actually I kept complaining to one YO who kept this equipment adjacent to the menage and I just kept having visions of somone coming off over the fence and being impaled. She wouldn't move it and so I moved yards.
 
I don't think I was particularly vitriolic. I hope I wasn't but I am pretty vehemently anti litigation. In this case it seems to me the whole situation could have been avoided if the liveries had taken some responsibility in making the situation safe themselves and that is what I based my opinion on.

If my YO did something absolutely outrageous, say turned out my horse with a new horse without my permission and without proper introduction and my horse was seriously injured I can just about imagine being peed off enough to take legal action, but for trips, slips and falls. No, I never would. I have eyes in my head and supposedly a brain between my ears and if something was dangerous I would fix it or avoid it.
 
I'd only claim if it was directly someones fault, which the yard story doesn't seem to be. That could have been avoided by tipping a barrow and spreading it. But if you were to impale yourself as someone else said, due to farm machinery being stored innappropriately, thats a sue type situation imo. I am very anti-sueing (insert correct term lol) though.
 
jesstickle said:
I don't think I was particularly vitriolic. I hope I wasn't but I am pretty vehemently anti litigation. In this case it seems to me the whole situation could have been avoided if the liveries had taken some responsibility in making the situation safe themselves and that is what I based my opinion on.

If my YO did something absolutely outrageous, say turned out my horse with a new horse without my permission and without proper introduction and my horse was seriously injured I can just about imagine being peed off enough to take legal action, but for trips, slips and falls. No, I never would. I have eyes in my head and supposedly a brain between my ears and if something was dangerous I would fix it or avoid it.
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Ditto this.


You have to bear in mind if this suing culture carries on a lot of yards will close and what would people prefer, only full livery options or not to be horse owners.

Its a financial judgement.
 
I think the problem nowadays is that nobody can do anything for fear of being sued in this "Where there's blame there's a claim" society.

I have had a brief look at the thread you refer to and although I think the gutter should have been sorted I also feel that everybody was in the same boat with the icy conditions at every yard.
Had the OP on the other thread kept her horses at home on her own property then what would she have done differently if anything?

There seems to be so many things people cannot do anymore due to the "Sueing Society" for instance local shows that are fast disappearing as they cannot get or afford the level of insurance they now require.

I have a lovely yard at home for my horses here with great facilities and have debated in the past having a couple of liveries but after looking into it and reading about horror stories I won't as I would not risk being sued. I have also looked at the insurance and by the time I have paid this then it does not cover the costs of having extra horses here.

I won't even let anybody use my manege anymore - again for fear of being sued.

Personally I think the world has gone mad and wonder where it will all end?
 
My answer to both the OP and Enfys would be - when the YO or the livery has been negligent, in the legal sense of the word, or has otherwise breached a duty of care. So for me the question would be 'Does the YO have a duty of care to his liveries which extends to taking reasonable care to ensure that the yard is safe to walk on?' or, if the duty does not extend to that, has the YO otherwise discharged his duty of care?

I am not surprised the poster in the other thread wishes to claim if her legal advisor has told her she has a basis for a claim. If I broke my arm I would incur large costs as I would have to pay someone else to look after and exercise my horse, would be unable to drive and would be unable to do a large part of my job (research) without difficulty if not impossibility - if this was due to someone else's negligence, why should I have to absorb the financial cost of this myself?

Enfys - if a livery was negligent and it caused injury to the YO and the YO had a basis for a claim, I would say exactly the same. I imagine a YO could easily incur large staffing costs and loss of income if he/she was injured through someone else's negligence.
 
Mrs_Wishkabibble said:
I have had a brief look at the thread you refer to and although I think the gutter should have been sorted I also feel that everybody was in the same boat with the icy conditions at every yard.
Had the OP on the other thread kept her horses at home on her own property then what would she have done differently if anything?
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The temperature was going down to -13/-15 where my horse is stabled - the YO ensured the walkways were gritted or kept clear. There were no icy spots on the yard and to the best of my knowledge nobody, whether human or horse, slipped during the 2 weeks of complete freeze. I am not denying that she and her staff must have worked very hard to achieve this!
 
I'm on a diy yard and would NOT expect the owner to grit the yard, we have a 1/2 mile long drive up a steep hill to get to the yard and in the snow we have to walk it as nothing can get up. If I want anything gritted I buy it and do it myself. If I fall over through lack off gritting maybe I should have done a better job or been more carefull.
In her case the guttering was broken and she knew that so why not make the area as safe as???? Salt? Muck? Etc!!!!! No wait until you fall over and make a claim.
DON'T ANYBODY TAKE RESPONABILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS ANY MORE?

Makes me mad,
 
Mrs_Wishkabibble said:
I think the problem nowadays is that nobody can do anything for fear of being sued in this "Where there's blame there's a claim" society.

I have had a brief look at the thread you refer to and although I think the gutter should have been sorted I also feel that everybody was in the same boat with the icy conditions at every yard.
Had the OP on the other thread kept her horses at home on her own property then what would she have done differently if anything?

There seems to be so many things people cannot do anymore due to the "Sueing Society" for instance local shows that are fast disappearing as they cannot get or afford the level of insurance they now require.

I have a lovely yard at home for my horses here with great facilities and have debated in the past having a couple of liveries but after looking into it and reading about horror stories I won't as I would not risk being sued. I have also looked at the insurance and by the time I have paid this then it does not cover the costs of having extra horses here.

I won't even let anybody use my manege anymore - again for fear of being sued.

Personally I think the world has gone mad and wonder where it will all end?
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Couldn't agree more with this ^^^^
I hate the "where theres a blame theres a claim" and "no win no fee" society we live in, but some some words of wisdom there.
 
thatsmygirl said:
DON'T ANYBODY TAKE RESPONABILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS ANY MORE?
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Then why shouldn't the YO take responsibility for his (in)action? If repairs, maintenance etc are carried out and paid for by the YO in general, why would you expect to grit the yard? Does the YO not have a responsibility to provide a safe environment to his clients? If not, under what circumstances should a YO be responsible? These are all genuine questions btw, I am not trying to be facetious.
 
My problem with the other thread is that the OP is not blind.... she could see the conditions were very icy, but chose not to try and make it safer for herself.
 
thatsmygirl said:
I'm on a diy yard and would NOT expect the owner to grit the yard, we have a 1/2 mile long drive up a steep hill to get to the yard and in the snow we have to walk it as nothing can get up. If I want anything gritted I buy it and do it myself. If I fall over through lack off gritting maybe I should have done a better job or been more carefull.
In her case the guttering was broken and she knew that so why not make the area as safe as???? Salt? Muck? Etc!!!!! No wait until you fall over and make a claim.
DON'T ANYBODY TAKE RESPONABILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS ANY MORE?

Makes me mad,
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Very wise.

The clue is in the name isn't DIY = Do It Yourself ???

The liveries could have got together asked the YO what plans were being made for yard safety in the snow and if none were mentioned buy it and scatter salt themselves. Put barriers around the worst areas etc.
 
ChristmasBee said:
I can just see you, in a few years, in those ads (with Popple and co, for the aww factor) "Have you been in an accident that wasn't your fault?..." :D

Or not ;)
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Begger off Stiinkerbee :p I'm not doing crud like that :D

I am very keen on tort though, specifically medical negligence, and also defamation. *braces herself for a flaming* :p
 
I would consider it only in the most extreme circumstances, for example if a YO/YM did something to my horse/property with malicious intent, but otherwise I don't think I would.

The way I see it our horse (and other horses) sometimes accidentally damage fences, stables, even crops (which is how my YO makes his main living) and they've never charged us for loss or repair because they know it's accidental. I realise breaking a limb on ice is painful and debilitating, and my heart goes out to the OP for her injury, but I really believe she should think again.

In my own circs I have no livery contracts for either of my 2, only verbal agreements, so I don't think I could even if I wanted to, which I don't.
 
ossy said:
Couldn't agree more with this ^^^^
I hate the "where theres a blame theres a claim" and "no win no fee" society we live in, but some some words of wisdom there.
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Tort law is a little more complex than the trashy tv ads make out ;)

If you read some of the cases about how people have suffered due to others negligence then you may change your mind. :)
 
Surely if a yard is ran that badly and so dangerously that it would come to point of wanting to claim...then you would have moved your horse before risk anything happening to them or yourself?
 
Fine, the YO possibly didn't try as hard to make things safe as he should have but the fact remains that the person who slipped on the ice and broke their arm could see the ice and surely was capable of working out the dangers SO instead of just leaving it and ending up having an accident (for which she now wishes to claim monetary compensation despite the fact it has cost her very little financially by all accounts) WHY didn't she do something to make the area safer for her own sake never mind who should have been responsible for it? If she had slipped in the dark on an area that she couldn't see was dangerous caused by a faulty gutter then it would be a bit different as she would have had no chance to the situation safer, but the fact that in the case of her accident she was aware of the dangers in advance and did nothing about them just makes me cross. Why can't people take responsibilities for their own actions these days.
 
Why shouldn't I grit? For my safety after all. Rather buy a bag off grit than risk breaking anything. If all liverys get together you can make it safe. My yo never walks into our yard as it's diy, we just feed back any problems. Iv been there and had a leaking guttering which took time for yo to sort as he had to get the bits but we just put a dustbin underneath it to make it safer until it was fixed. And I doubt in the icy snow weather we had anybody would want to climb up a ladder, I would wait until weather was better and cope until than. There is no excuse for letting water leak all over the yard to freeze it takes a few minutes to direct the water into containers.
 
Puppy said:
If you read some of the cases about how people have suffered due to others negligence then you may change your mind. :)
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Of course the law is there to protect people and if there is a genuine case of negligence fine (by which I mean someone couldn't possibly have been aware of the risks involved). However, it does seem to encourage people to completely wash their hands of having any common sense and self preservation. If you can see a problem you should do something about it. Not just ignore it and then try to sue after something happens. Surely? Or am I just old fashioned?
 
Puppy said:
:D

On the subject of which, super news that the Daily Fail is being sued again :D It's like my dream case! :D
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What have they done this time? Its usually them or the News of The World with their reliable reporters that get sued, lol! Must be fun working in their offices!
 
I've been off work for afew months following an accident. I'm waiting for surgery. Many people keep going on that I should sue them. To me it was just an accident - and they happen! I've not been able to ride for ages properly, and will be off for another 6 months after the op. I've found a million ways to do my horse with one arm - I muck out with a rubber glove and skip. I can tuck wheelbarrow handles into my waist and push them half full. I've put longer strings on my haynets to allow me to thread them through the tie ring one handed, then I hoist them up with my goor arm and my knee... I'm not bragging or asking for a badge - I didn't even mention this on the thread last night, but to me a broken arm really isn't the end of the world. Its a little bit of struggle for a few weeks.

It was an accident - had the roof of a stable fallen in on you due to bad repair, and you'd ended up off work for months due to a broken back I'd really have sympathy for you, as that is a life changeing accident. To me that is the sort of thing that you claim for, and thats why yards have insurance. Not because somebody has a fall and has a solicitor friend.

Yes it will put costs up. There are so many things that could go wrong - you can't wrap the whole place up in cotton wool. To me aleaking drain is nothing compared to a broken fence, or a nail sticking out in the stable - jobs have to be prioritised. The leaking gutter was not that mnuch of a problem surely until it froze. Riding schools have already gone down this route. Very few companies provide insurance for them nowadays, and its so so expensive. Soon livery insurance will go the same. This will have to come out of DIY costs - as well as the grit etc.

I'm sick of my insurance going up because people are happy to sue over trivial things. I've never claimed on insurance for anything. Just how I was brought up - pick yourself up and get on with it...

The OP said that she moved to the yard because it was cheap, and mentioned other things that she wasn't happy about - so why go/stay there?

I've had DIYs too - they didn't make any money, and I was always worrying about something happening to them/their horses. In the end it was much better to keep the yard for private use. I'd perhaps do full livery, but never DIY.

It works both ways. How would DIYs who have their horses turned out in the morning for them feel if the YO sued them because their horse pulled and they fell over? Or for damage that their horse did to the stable?

To me, horses are an outdoor sport that will lead you into bad weather and ice and snow. Youve just got to cope with it.

Sorry if this sounds like vitriol to some. I just detest this blame culture of wimps that is evolving. It effects everyone.
 
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Do you know what pee's me off more than anything with these recent threads? The recurring suggestion that if a person is on DIY livery they can fend for themselves. So for everyone on full or part livery I suppose you expect your yards gritted and cleared of snow for you do you?

It doesn't matter what type of service you pay for, the fact is you are paying for a service and the provider has a certain duty of care to each person - not a higher duty to the higher paying customers jeeeeesss

You don't have to suffer financial hardship to be able to sue - is breaking a bone not enough? Why shouldn't somebody be compensated if they were injured through somebody elses negligence?
 
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