Classical dressage training????? :-O

siennamum said:
I hope the people involved don't see this thread.
I hope they do see it..although I doubt it'd make any difference.



It was imperative that the instructor got horse forward and her technique was pretty spot on BUT it was a very hard smack given that the horse was confused & young, I think it was a reprimand for kicking out as much as anything.
He won't be any less confused after that lesson..

I honestly do wonder whether some of you people who claim to have corrected horses which don't move off the leg have actually ridden very much or very many different horses.
You do? Can't speak for anyone else but I have no issues getting a horse to go forward without belting it.

Faffing around a horse like the one in the video is just encouraging it to get really obdurate and frankly useless.

It was totally confused by what the rider was doing.

It hard(had?) to learn fast that the rider's leg has to be obeyed and that it has to be forward at all times.

There is a better kinder way of doing this IMO.

Before the instructor got on, it hadnt done one step of correct forward trot. It is unfortunate it was being ridden into any kind of a contact, but I would have gotten on and really made the horse go forwards also.
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Contact! It wasn't even moving. It did not know what direction to go in. Any fool can get on a horse and whack it hard to make it move. And it kicked out after it was slapped. As for the praise! Enough said.
 
Ah well, at least I can go to sleep at night knowing my horses wont ever be treated like that and yet miraculously still go forward :eek:

Whatever floats your boat.
 
It was imperative that the instructor got horse forward and her technique was pretty spot on BUT it was a very hard smack given that the horse was confused & young, I think it was a reprimand for kicking out as much as anything.
He won't be any less confused after that lesson..

Actually the horse was moving forwards at the end, it may have been tired & we may not have liked how the lesson was taught but the horse was pretty clear that he had to go forwards.

I honestly do wonder whether some of you people who claim to have corrected horses which don't move off the leg have actually ridden very much or very many different horses.
You do? Can't speak for anyone else but I have no issues getting a horse to go forward without belting it.
no one is suggesting you have to belt a horse to make it go forwards, if you read the approach outlined below it is 'tough' but it works. How many horses who have learned bad habits and aren't forwards off the leg have you reeducated? What methods have you used then? I have tried the Spencering approah - though not on all as you run the risk of being tentpegged, my current youngster has had a few hard smacks - to no avail, he has just taken lots of time. What techniques have you tried?

Faffing around a horse like the one in the video is just encouraging it to get really obdurate and frankly useless.

Not the 2nd rider it wasn't. Definitely was with the first one, as I said

It hard(had?) to learn fast that the rider's leg has to be obeyed and that it has to be forward at all times.

There is a better kinder way of doing this IMO.
Yes you can educate them better at the start, sadly that hadn't happened with this horse. I agree it was hit too hard, not sure why you need to point out my spelling mistakes...

Before the instructor got on, it hadnt done one step of correct forward trot. It is unfortunate it was being ridden into any kind of a contact, but I would have gotten on and really made the horse go forwards also.
Contact! It wasn't even moving. It did not know what direction to go in. Any fool can get on a horse and whack it hard to make it move. And it kicked out after it was slapped. As for the praise! Enough said

Yes if you read my post I wrote that it is unfortunate the horse is being ridden into a contact
 
I have a highland and she needs a wack sometimes but never like that. Flipping heck!!!!!!
Could the "instructor" not see that the horse was really stiff behind!!!
 
Don't worry, TT, I've never lost sleep about the treatment of my horses - they're more than happy with their lot and enjoy their work - even if I do demand certain standards ;)
 
Batgirl said:
The horse is clearly not right behind and the first woman had no clue and no independent hands, the instructor even says how crap the saddle is. However if you removed the lameness, the saddle, the first woman and the weirdly aggressive 'patting' the principle behind the smack instead of nagging is sound.

However what an awful video to be putting in public.
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I agree with you, the odd sharp smack is far better than someone booting the hell out of the sides of the horse in order for it to move forwards... I would much rather see a sharp smack than kick, kick, kick and even worse kick, kick, kick in spurs which is often what people resort to and ultimately end up with dead sides on their horse...

The smack didn't bother me in the slightest... the woman gobbing and kicking it at the same time in a failed attempt to get it to go off her leg was more of a concern to me and then dragging it around the circle...

A pulled young mouth is a ruined young mouth!
 
I'm quite impressed with the ability to spot lameness on here, honestly. I could not tell if the horse was sound under the first rider, seeing as it hasn't actually made a single stride of forwards trot :rolleyes:, under the instructor, however, it didn't appear lame.
 
martlin said:
I'm quite impressed with the ability to spot lameness on here, honestly. I could not tell if the horse was sound under the first rider, seeing as it hasn't actually made a single stride of forwards trot :rolleyes:, under the instructor, however, it didn't appear lame.
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I must admit, I looked and looked and looked again at the video, given some of the comments on here - and was left scratching my head about how people could see lameness, as well.

As martlin says, it didn't move for the first rider - and was still busy napping for the second (albeit getting better).
 
I thought it "looked" lame when it was failing to trot properly with the first rider, and peered at it for ages because I couldn't see whether it was actually lame or not, because it wasn't moving. I also think it looked sound under the instructor when it's moving forwards properly.
 
martlin said:
I'm quite impressed with the ability to spot lameness on here, honestly. I could not tell if the horse was sound under the first rider, seeing as it hasn't actually made a single stride of forwards trot :rolleyes:, under the instructor, however, it didn't appear lame.
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I think the horse was more 'Short' than lame and more likely down to the fact that it wasn't actually going any where and IMO it was down to a very novice rider trying to get a young horse going, never a good combination in my book.

It actually looked to be moving far better when the instructor got on it for the short period... and more than likely would have improved had she continued riding it.

People putting comments like, It's so absolutely lame, on the offside I think, well if you can't tell which leg it's lame on or don't know your 'Offside from nearside' then comments like that really don't help... theres a wagon, with a band playing on it!
 
Re the lameness question: it did trip at one point and took a few funny steps whilst it was being "ridden" by the owner, but this is often seen when the horse isn't using its back (or in this case, any part of its' anatomy). It was sound under the "trainer" person. And horses do sweat, you know, and its not cruel to make them do so. In fact if more horses worked hard enough to break a sweat then we might have a few less enormous blobs with owners worried about laminitis.
 
seeley said:
This lady has connections with Mark Whitemore who runs Yorkshire Equine acadamy there has been a thread on here about his methods in braking horses........:rolleyes:
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There we are then, she's clearly guilty of the heinous crime accused of on this thread:rolleyes:
 
amymay said:
There we are then, she's clearly guilty of the heinous crime accused of on this thread:rolleyes:
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I was just pointing out the connection between TWO threads on this forum. The title "classical dressage training" i believe is because this lady advertises as a classical dressage trainer....but im sure you will correct me if Im wrong :rolleyes:
 
I personally think it is wrong to comment when you have no idea of the history. Anyone can see the horse is bloody backward thinking. This may or may not have been caused by the rider but the poor rider is never going to be able to look in harmony whilst she is having to shove the horse forward. The instructor hardly beat the horse. She gave a well timed smack when the horse told her to f off.
One of the most unacceptable and dangerous evasions is to be behind the leg, what happens when you are in a situation where you need to move quickly and the horse point blank refuses to go?
Of course in a perfect world we would all ride beautifully on immaculatly schooled horses but its not a perfect world and some times these this has to be done.
Agree with the Carl comments, he would never accept a horse being so obtuse to the leg and neither would I!
 
Wow, have I learnt a lot! Here was me NOT thwacking a horse that wont go forwards off the leg easily and wasting my time working out what problems the horse has, whether it be lack of fitness, not understanding the aids or being in pain, to name but a few, where I could have just walloped the seven shades out of it and that is purely acceptable! I was under the understanding that horses dont have cognitive thought due to lacking the part of the brain that does this, hence they just respond to stimulus in the best way they know how. Agree the horse needs reschooling but there is a better way than thrashing it with a crop. The instructor even cracks it when it is behaving, teaching it nothing other than you get hit no matter what it does. A sad case for a 5 yr old horse.
 
Interesting reading these comments but I want to point out one very serious observation..
For those of you that say they were quite right in asking more from this horse and that hitting it to continue was correct .. please tell me have you noticed the horse is already dripping with sweat... and OVER frothing at the mouth.
We didnt see the first part of the lesson but a horse would not get like that if it had not already been working hard or if the horse had done nothing would that not REALLY worried you as being an abnormal reaction ...possibly muscles tying up -as clearly overweight and not used to this type of work or early signs of colic ...Both of these are very serious and what you are seeing in the video are the warning signs of these. The stiffness people are observing but cannot put their finger on was possible cramps as they are classic signs of tying up.
As a trainer would you not also say the horse has had enough today -Physically ??
Return another day with a calm fresh mind ... and calm fresh horse. then put you actions in to plan ... never on a clearly tired, distressed horse.
 
this horse is not sound behind :0( poor thing being forced to go forward when infact he is trying to tell them he hurts..note also how he rests that near hind every time he stops he also kicks out with thwe same leg ..ohm shameful :mad:
 
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