Claustrophobic horse - next steps for travelling?

[Joyous70]

OK so i have been working for over a month now with my girl on the loading issues we have.

The loading is no longer an issue and she will self load every time and stand on the trailer munching away at her hay net happily, i can put her back bum bar up, sometimes she will back into it and sit on it for a few seconds, other times she ignores and and is happy to back out and come back onto the trailer when i ask her, at no time duirng this process does she show any signs of distress.

Now the next step, to shut her in, this is where we are having a problem, i had someone close the rear ramp for me last night while i stood with her, and her eyes told the story, total fear! she hates being closed in, even with the little windows at the front she can see out of, she will keep turning to look out of the back of the trailer, and i can tell she is distressed, im pretty sure if i left her on there she would tear the trailer apart and have a complete meltdown, she has been shut on and left in a different trailer at someone elses yard, she skinned her forehead on the roof gave herself two new comedy eyebrows and frightened herself half to death and nearly tipped the trailer over, she used to be quite bad when put into her stable, but this seems to have improved massively over this winter.

Do i keep on with getting somene to close us in for a few minutes at a time and gradually increase the amount of time we spend in there with her? or am i going at this all wrong? is there something else i can try.?

I did think about removing the perspex from the windows so she had more air/light but then travelling she would get all the dust and stray bits in her face, so don't think this is an option.

She is too good a horse to be left at home, and im would love to get her out and about, she has had a couple of nice trips out before and travelled well, but its a bit like loosing your bottle i suppose, shes tried it wasn't keen, and now doesn't really want to do it again because she's taken as much as she can handle.

I don't have the option of using a travelling companion for her either, this has been suggested before.

Sorry for the esseay, hope someone has some words of wisdom/encouragement they can offer me

 

[Spudpud]

Where are you? Dan Wilson who worked with Monty Roberts is fantastic. He has helped me with a difficult loader & then helped teach my 3 year old to load as I wanted to try & 'get it right' from the outset. I view the expense as an investment into their future & I would have paid twice or three times over what he charged as it was such a peace of mind. It was very reasonable but I can't remember the figure, he will travel far & wide. Sounds like you've made great progress but I'm afraid I can't help with the closing in bit except do you have a front ramp? Horses need to know they can get out and forward is the best direction, so closing the front would be the last step, beyond that I can't offer any insight I'm afraid. Good luck x

 

[Joyous70]

Im in the Midlands

I have considered contacting Michael Peace, and have had some help from a couple who have had him out to their horse, hence the progress, before this she wouldn't get back on the the trailer. She seems to load for me only, I believe is a trust thing, also she doesn't like men much

I do have a front ramp, however, prefer to keep that closed, as she has made a break for it before, we have loaded her and shut her in before with the top door above the front ramp open, however, once this is closed over it causes her to panic.

 

[Spudpud]

It's obviously deep rooted what ever it is. I'm in the south west as is Dan Wilson, I don't know about anyone else but I would suggest getting help with the next step as it has the potential to make all the difference whilst also being the most dangerous if things go wrong. He will travel though, no harm in asking. He goes to Europe & the states so Midlands is within the realms of possibility! Equally if someone else is more locally it may be easier.

 

[Pigeon]

I would get in touch with a pro, but I'm not really sure how they'd approach this differently as it's only when you shut the top door which shouldn't be happening until you are out of the trailer. I think this will probably be a case of repetition and time...

Or maybe sedate her! One of mine had a bit of a wobble about travelling after being in an accident (would throw himself on the floor) and I didn't want to have to resort to chemicals but it was getting dangerous. Two sessions under the influence of sleepy juice was enough for him to decide that trailers don't eat horses and (TOUCH WOOD!!) I haven't had a problem since. Though he had travelled fine before the accident so it wasn't a totally new concept.

Also please, PLEASE don't get shut in there with her if she's likely to freak out, it's dangerous, especially if she's the type that will jump the breast bar. Does she start to become uncomfortable as soon as you close either ramp? I would just take it steady, start by closing one ramp at a time (leave the top door open) and wait a couple of weeks until she's totally happy with each, and eventually both. Feed her in there, groom her face, whatever chills her out - keep an eye on her heart rate and if she starts to stress open the ramp again. Maybe even try closing it for like 5 seconds and then opening it again. Wear a hat and gloves, make sure everything has safety breaks, and get her a poll guard because she will damage herself if she goes up.

 

[Joyous70]

Sedate her!

One of mine had a bit of a wobble about travelling after being in an accident (would throw himself on the floor) and I didn't want to have to resort to chemicals but it was getting dangerous. Two sessions under the influence of sleepy juice was enough for him to decide that trailers don't eat horses and (TOUCH WOOD!!) I haven't had a problem since.

Also please, PLEASE don't get shut in there with her if she's likely to freak out, it's dangerous, especially if she's the type that will jump the breast bar. Does she start to become uncomfortable as soon as you close either ramp? I would just take it steady, start by closing one ramp at a time (leave the top door open) and wait a couple of weeks until she's totally happy with each, and eventually both. Feed her in there, groom her face, whatever chills her out - keep an eye on her heart rate and if she starts to stress open the ramp again. Maybe even try closing it for like 5 seconds and then opening it again.

She will load onto the trailer with the front ramp totally closed, the moment the back ramp is shut she becomes uncomfortable, she becomes agitated, she does settle enough to sniff her net and the windows etc., but will keep turning her head to look behind her, and i know from previous experience, if i shut her in, tie her up and take her for a little drive, she will not get back on again, and i will be looking at another 5-6 weeks to gain her trust to even load onto the trailer.

I think, your idea, of loading her on with top front door open for a while might be the best way forward for now, and feed her and give her a net on there after being groomed etc.,

 

[wench]

Do you work on the loading every day? Tbh I might be tempted to send her somewhere they can work with her every day (assuming you have limited time and a job!)

Can you rig up something at your yard that is like a trailer, but not, so she doesn't have a paddy with it and wreck it?

Have you tried her in any other types of transport?

 

[PorkChop]

Is she the same with another horse in the trailer with her?

Sounds like you are doing a brilliant job with her, I would definitely be borrowing a very quiet traveller as company for her, and then out every day in the trailer so it becomes the norm.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Is the trailer hitched up when you are practicing?

This is an exercise to do in the stable. Use a heavy dark blanket and lift it up pretending it's a ramp. It mimics the claustrophobia feeling in a safe situation (ie you start far enough away so she doesn't care about it then move closer. Wear a hat etc.

 

[wkiwi]

I think the heavy blanket idea is great. Just another thought - can you find someone with an old-fashioned stall (rather than a stable), or smallish shed that is bigger than the trailer but smaller than the the loosebox i.e. gradually get her used to smaller spaces without having to actually have her in a trailer. That way you would also find out if it was association with confinement in a trailer, or with confinement in general (plus safer and easier to let out in a stall than a trailer).

 

[bonny]

How big is your mare ?

 

[_GG_]

I think the heavy blanket idea is great. Just another thought - can you find someone with an old-fashioned stall (rather than a stable), or smallish shed that is bigger than the trailer but smaller than the the loosebox i.e. gradually get her used to smaller spaces without having to actually have her in a trailer. That way you would also find out if it was association with confinement in a trailer, or with confinement in general (plus safer and easier to let out in a stall than a trailer).

If I've understood the OP correctly, the horse was like this in a stable initially as well, so it's likely a confinement issue as opposed to just a trailer issue.

OP...it will cost you, but if you are on horsey facebook pages, there are often old trailer for sale for just a few hundred pounds. If you can afford to buy one of these, make sure the floor is absolutely solid, but remove the roof. This was done for a horse many many years ago on a yard I used to work at. It was done to get the horse to accept the ramps being put up and closed without it feeling trapped. As far as I remember, they cut the roof into panels and put it back on bit by bit as the horse became happy with it. I do remember lots of foam and duct tape to cover sharp edges.

It would require some skill and thought, but it did help that horse.

Edit: I would add...the safety of the horse and anyone handling would have to be of paramount importance and before trying anything like this, I would get someone out like Michael Peace and see what they can do.

 

[Nosey]

Sounds v much like my mare was tho she always loaded well but wanted out almost immediately. Spent mths like you increasing her time standing on board by the seconds/feeding her on board etc but she was usually too stressed to want to eat. Described the situation to monty himself at a demo & he said it's a part of the process you have no influence over. IE You're outside the trailer at that point.As mine always travelled perfectly with company I aquired a small furry Shetland to act as a comfort blanket & haven't looked back. I haven't bothered any solo attempts since though as she has explosive tendencies & to me it was an unnecessary risk. Ive heard of it giving horses some confidence to go it alone at a later date tho. I know you said you couldn't arrange a companion but I'd really seriously consider it!

 

[wench]

You could get some heras fence panels, set up a tunnel, them gradually put a tarpaulin over the "roof" of it, then use the blanket idea above for the "ramp". Having said that how safe heras fence world be if horse panics is another matter.

 

[Joyous70]

Do you work on the loading every day? Tbh I might be tempted to send her somewhere they can work with her every day (assuming you have limited time and a job!)

Can you rig up something at your yard that is like a trailer, but not, so she doesn't have a paddy with it and wreck it?

Have you tried her in any other types of transport?

If im honest since 1st March i have worked on this issue, virtually every single day, the only days i have left it alone have been Tuesday's (visit my parents) and the few days coming up to Easter when the winds were incredibly high.

Funds are seriously limited at present, I did send her away last year for a week, but the problem hasn't been resolved, which is why im trying to work this through myself.

Unsure of how i could rig something else up that would be like a trailer but definately worth a trhought, she has been loaded onto a different trailer before, but not a lorry its not something that i have available to try at the moment,

 

[Joyous70]

Is she the same with another horse in the trailer with her?

Sounds like you are doing a brilliant job with her, I would definitely be borrowing a very quiet traveller as company for her, and then out every day in the trailer so it becomes the norm.

I haven't tried her with another horse, nothing really suitable at the yard that i could try.

 

[Joyous70]

Is the trailer hitched up when you are practicing?

This is an exercise to do in the stable. Use a heavy dark blanket and lift it up pretending it's a ramp. It mimics the claustrophobia feeling in a safe situation (ie you start far enough away so she doesn't care about it then move closer. Wear a hat etc.

Yes trailer is always hitched up, i wouldn't dare do it any other way.

I like the idea of the dark blanket, in fact i have a sheet of rubber matting, thats not too heavy, maybe i could start with that first. Fab idea thank you.

 

[Joyous70]

I think the heavy blanket idea is great. Just another thought - can you find someone with an old-fashioned stall (rather than a stable), or smallish shed that is bigger than the trailer but smaller than the the loosebox i.e. gradually get her used to smaller spaces without having to actually have her in a trailer. That way you would also find out if it was association with confinement in a trailer, or with confinement in general (plus safer and easier to let out in a stall than a trailer).

It is definately a confinement issue, when i first got her, it was very stressful to stable her, she preferred and still does prefer to be out in the field, or if she has to come onto the yard, tied up outside her stable, she is a lot better stabled now and will sometimes have a lie down overnight, however, she will still do a riverdance in her stable every now and then but will settle.

 

[Joyous70]

If I've understood the OP correctly, the horse was like this in a stable initially as well, so it's likely a confinement issue as opposed to just a trailer issue.

OP...it will cost you, but if you are on horsey facebook pages, there are often old trailer for sale for just a few hundred pounds. If you can afford to buy one of these, make sure the floor is absolutely solid, but remove the roof. This was done for a horse many many years ago on a yard I used to work at. It was done to get the horse to accept the ramps being put up and closed without it feeling trapped. As far as I remember, they cut the roof into panels and put it back on bit by bit as the horse became happy with it. I do remember lots of foam and duct tape to cover sharp edges.

It would require some skill and thought, but it did help that horse.

Edit: I would add...the safety of the horse and anyone handling would have to be of paramount importance and before trying anything like this, I would get someone out like Michael Peace and see what they can do.

Yes definately a confinement issue.

Wow, that really is some dedication to getting the horse used to a trailer, like i said before funds are seriously lacking at the moment. Im think im going to plod on like i have been and just do as much as i can, maybe see if i can borrow a little furry friend for her see if it makes a difference,

 

[Joyous70]

How big is your mare ?

Not huge, just about 15hh, trailer is designed for up to 2 x 16.2's

 

[Joyous70]

Sounds v much like my mare was tho she always loaded well but wanted out almost immediately. Spent mths like you increasing her time standing on board by the seconds/feeding her on board etc but she was usually too stressed to want to eat. Described the situation to monty himself at a demo & he said it's a part of the process you have no influence over. IE You're outside the trailer at that point.As mine always travelled perfectly with company I aquired a small furry Shetland to act as a comfort blanket & haven't looked back. I haven't bothered any solo attempts since though as she has explosive tendencies & to me it was an unnecessary risk. Ive heard of it giving horses some confidence to go it alone at a later date tho. I know you said you couldn't arrange a companion but I'd really seriously consider it!

Maybe a furry friend is the way forwards, will have to see if i can borrow one for her, as don't want to go back to dual horse ownership.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Yes trailer is always hitched up, i wouldn't dare do it any other way.

I like the idea of the dark blanket, in fact i have a sheet of rubber matting, thats not too heavy, maybe i could start with that first. Fab idea thank you.

It does work. If she is really bad you might have to start outside so she's only "confined" on one side.

 

[Sue C]

It does work. If she is really bad you might have to start outside so she's only "confined" on one side.

Hi how is it going Ive had the same issue with my new horse today. will walk in and stand with front shut as soon as the back ramp goes up he freaks and tries to get over the break bar

 

[Joyous70]

Its going really well at the moment (touches wood), i have increased the amount of time she spends standing on the trailer with the back bar up to stop her coming out, and have been lifting the ramp a few inches off the ground, until i can now shut the ramp on her without her panicking, as she has been such a good girl doing this, i have bought her a nice bag of haylage for her to munch on once i shut the ramp, i go round to the jockey door, to make sure she's o.k. and then leave her for a few seconds, increasing each time and then bring her off again.

Major breakthrough this weekend, however, we took her for a very short drive, literally less than a mile up the road, didn't get out of 3rd gear, had a friend travel in with her to see how she reacted, as more than half of the trip was getting off the yard, took her to a large gateway to a bridleway that she's never been on before, unloaded her, took her for a wander down the bridleway and took her back home again, she loaded perfectly to come home. We will be repeating this exercise again this evening,

 

[Joyous70]

Hi how is it going Ive had the same issue with my new horse today. will walk in and stand with front shut as soon as the back ramp goes up he freaks and tries to get over the break bar

Maybe you could open the top door on your front ramp to begin with?

 

[wkiwi]

Its going really well at the moment (touches wood), she loaded perfectly to come home. We will be repeating this exercise again this evening,

Fantastic: We are all touching wood too, but your hard work and patience is obviously paying off. Your horse is lucky to have you as an owner.

 

[Joyous70]

Fantastic: We are all touching wood too, but your hard work and patience is obviously paying off. Your horse is lucky to have you as an owner.

Thank you, its been a long frustrating/sore (she broke my toe couple of months, but im hoping we are getting there now. Very kind of you to say this. I feel as though our relationship has improved hugely during this process as well, i was tempted to get someone in to "solve" the issue, but once they have taken your money and gone home its still down to you as the owner at the end of the day that has to get them to trust you and learn that it isn't an issue.

 

[wkiwi]

Thank you, its been a long frustrating/sore (she broke my toe couple of months, but im hoping we are getting there now. Very kind of you to say this. I feel as though our relationship has improved hugely during this process as well, i was tempted to get someone in to "solve" the issue, but once they have taken your money and gone home its still down to you as the owner at the end of the day that has to get them to trust you and learn that it isn't an issue.

Plus they may not solve the issue anyway, as so many things with horses take the patience you have shown and cannot be fixed in a few short sessions (which is usually all a professional has the opportunity to do). Very true too about it not being the same when the professional has gone home. I am 100% sure that you are also right about improving the trust between you and the horse by doing it your way - it is not something that can be developed in a few sessions but once established it is like magic!!
I have seen so many people 'have a go' at retraining a problem, but who really don't have the patience to see it through and do what the horse itself needs, s you should be really proud of your achievement.
Sorry to hear about the toe though!

 

[Joyous70]

Plus they may not solve the issue anyway, as so many things with horses take the patience you have shown and cannot be fixed in a few short sessions (which is usually all a professional has the opportunity to do). Very true too about it not being the same when the professional has gone home. I am 100% sure that you are also right about improving the trust between you and the horse by doing it your way - it is not something that can be developed in a few sessions but once established it is like magic!!
I have seen so many people 'have a go' at retraining a problem, but who really don't have the patience to see it through and do what the horse itself needs, s you should be really proud of your achievement.
Sorry to hear about the toe though!

Very true that it may not solve the issue, she has had some training previously for loading, and then suddenly started going backwards! so this was another reason for not getting someone in, as you say it needs time & patience (funny really, i have NO patience as a rule, but with my girl, i have all the time & patience in the world).

Thanks again for your kind words, I am incredibly proud of what i have achieved with her so far, although, im still viewing this as a work in progress.

Toe's staring to get better, after 7 weeks, its still swollen & sore lots of mickey taking about walking like a penguin at work, but if thats all i have to suffer, its not too bad.

 

[PorkChop]

Fantastic news - well done for putting in the time and effort