Clipping problems

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Dexydoodle

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Just wanted some views on how best to proceed.

Bought my mare in October and she was fully clipped out, and apparently as good as gold to clip. Since getting her i've had issues with her legs - she has a chronic skin infection on her front legs that is extremely sore for her, and mud fever on her back legs (now only a small patch in the bulb of her heels) - both of which are now starting to clear up.

I clipped her in November and she was absolutely fine with her body and head, but wouldn't let me near her legs. Every time I went near them she'd pick them up and move away and generally was not happy at all. So tried lifting a leg so that she couldn't pick up another one, and she knew that she could put all her weight on you and use you as a spare leg and keep hopping with the other ones. She isn't half as bad with her front legs as her back, but we could only get her back legs clipped by twitching. I know some people are against it, she's my first horse and it was recommended by one of the experienced people at my yard, having read up on it i'm not so keen but now having a dilemma.

Tried to clip again on the weekend and having exactly the same problem. I think this is an old issue, the skin infection is chronic and the vet thinks has probably been present for a few years without treatment. :( I think that being clipped probably hurts which explains the reaction, and I don't believe that she has previously been clipped without sedation/ twitching. I just don't know the best way to go now - would people recommend twitching or sedation? The problem is that to clear her various scabby infected bits I need her legs clipped so I can keep an eye on what's going on, but it obviously is sore to clip.

Thank you for reading and I hope the above makes some sense! :)
 
If it is essential to clip her legs to treat them then I would use a sedative. If they are sore then you can totally understand her not being so easy to clip as you had been told, she does have a reason if it is painful. If you can treat her legs without clipping (if creams need to be applied then it is possible to do it and leave the hair on, just part the hair and apply the cream carefully) then I would do that as a preference. If she is a sensitive sort with her legs anyway then the more protection you can leave them the better really.
 
She's normally absolutely fine with her legs, clipping seems to be the only issue. I would leave them hairy but its not really an option - the skin infection is behind her knees and very difficult to see with her hairyness on, the vet has recommended clipping so I can see if its spreading etc, as well as to get the cream on more easily.

Am I right in thinking that sedatives have to be prescribed by the vet? Is there anything you'd recommend?

Once the infection is cleared I will work on desensitising her to having the clippers on her legs over the summer before we hit next winter! Don't like seeing her distressed by it, but it must be an ingrained response to the pain as she's not bothered by the clippers anywhere else on her. :(
 
You can get things like magox and oxyshot stuff just from the tack shop. Seem to work for some horses and not for others. If she is just figity and a little bothered then they might be enough just to allow her to settle for long enough for you to clip her legs. If she gives a bigger reaction then it might be worth having the vet - I must admit I tend to prefer the calmest option if there is any chance of a worried or scared reaction to something that I don't have time to work through. I am inclined to think that if something is scary and then becomes a big deal then it can make things worse. The vet can give a jab - diff stuff depending on the length of time to be sedated for or amount of sedation needed. They also have a paste which a horse on our yard has had a couple of times and it seems brilliant stuff. No needle bother and it seems to have an effect in about 10 mins and have a much stronger effect than the over the counter stuff.
You might find that when her legs are sorted and she has twigged that they don't hurt anymore, then she might be just fine with having her legs clipped.
 
The trouble with sedative is that they can snap out of it, and your vet will confirm this, so not the easy answer you hope for, plus it can get expensive. I'm a twitch person. Provided it is put on correctly, you can get on with the job quicksticks, horse doesn't fight, you don't get hurt and you can keep an eye on the legs. If the problem over the clippers is in her head, when you have done this a few times and she realises it ISN'T going to hurt, you may find that you don't need to restrain at all.
Good luck
 
Yeah she doesn't kick out or anything, is just determined not to let you near her legs - picks them up and puts them down again and walks away from you the minute you bend down. She's fine with front and back legs to her knees - after that you stand no chance.

Agree on wanting a calm reaction - thats why I left them on the weekend, so I have a smart fully clipped out horse with hairy back legs from the knees down! Just wasn't worth stressing her out for, so left them til I could figure out the best solution.
 
irish_only said:
The trouble with sedative is that they can snap out of it, and your vet will confirm this, so not the easy answer you hope for, plus it can get expensive. I'm a twitch person. Provided it is put on correctly, you can get on with the job quicksticks, horse doesn't fight, you don't get hurt and you can keep an eye on the legs. If the problem over the clippers is in her head, when you have done this a few times and she realises it ISN'T going to hurt, you may find that you don't need to restrain at all.
Good luck
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Clipped her legs last time with a twitch, only took about 10 mins and she seemed very chilled out about it. Just did a bit of reading about it when I got home and it said that the chilled out-ness (yes I know thats not really a word) came from endorphins being released as a pain response which put me off a bit. There's a lot of conflicting views and i'm really confused! Just want to get her legs done in as painless, stress free and quick manner as possible. Note - I didn't do the twitching as I wouldn't know how, one of the other liveries who uses and knows how did it, and I clipped her legs.

Do you think that whether I twitch or sedate, because its still going to hurt a little (front legs are worst in terms of scabbiness and i've done them) that she'll associate either, and the clipping, with pain still? :confused:
 
My horse hates clippers full stop and I've tried both sedation and twitch. He is clippable with both but personally I prefer the twitch. The sedation is very expensive (£60 last time) and the vet had to stay whilst I clipped. It took 3 injections to keep him under and there is always a possibility for him going down. I find the whole sedation thing a bit stressful and can chemically knocking them out on a regular basis really be too good for them?!?! The twitch however is instant, get job done quickly and back to normal immediatly. Next day he's forgotten it all. Neither is "nice" but a nessecary evil. Have you tried just cutting the hair with scissors? I can get a clipped effect on fetlocks from just scissors. Try getting someone else to hold up another leg and then you have more of a warning if going to kick.
 
Did think about the scissors option but she's a mega hairy cob and her unclipped legs look like a fluffy teddy bear next to the rest of her! Did wonder if I trimmed them with scissors whether I might be able to finish off with a set of trimmers rather than clippers - just reminded me that I've tried trimmers on her too and she was much better with them on her legs than the clippers, but she is now too hairy for them to deal with.

And unfortunately she's a bit of a smart cookie, and think this has been an ongoing issue for a long time, as she's well aware that if you hold a leg up that she can lean her full weight on you and still lift the other leg. Tried it and nearly got squished - she's a big girl!
 
I would twitch her, you could always try a skin twitch (on her neck) to see if this helps first. It is a lot less stresfull for the horse if she is happy to be twitched and as another poster has said they can come out of a sedation pretty damn quick and panic when they realise what is going on. Make sure the person holding the twitch knows what they are doing.

You could also try using scissors on her legs and then trimmers to tidy up. :)
 
I've never had a horse resent the twitch being used, and find that it is far far nicer to twitch, get the job done, and then give them a good pat and hug and tell them how much you love them :). Much much nicer than falling out, losing battles and letting them think they can dominate. Re the endorphins, yes the twitch does release them, but this relaxes them (as in the lion on the preys nose and then they go calm), and you want to relax them and convince them that you are not going to hurt them, but you ARE going to clip those hairy legs.
 
Allover said:
I would twitch her, you could always try a skin twitch (on her neck) to see if this helps first. It is a lot less stresfull for the horse if she is happy to be twitched and as another poster has said they can come out of a sedation pretty damn quick and panic when they realise what is going on. Make sure the person holding the twitch knows what they are doing.

You could also try using scissors on her legs and then trimmers to tidy up. :)
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Last time we twitched her on her lip - is a skin twitch better or worse? She was totally chilled out with it on and did make life easy, just trying to assess all the options!

And thinking the scissors and trimmers might work, will give it a go and see how she is :)
 
Skin twitch is not as effective, plus it makes your hand ache!

Let me give you an instance of where I've used the twitch.

Very arrogant TB stallion who had a very short list of various things that we were not allowed to to him, including pulling his mane and injecting him. Had various fights with him, tried tying him up very short etc etc and he would rather die than give in. Because he was very dominating, he hated the twitch because it meant he would lose the battle, so would fight it being put on. We worked out that if we tied him up and then blindfolded him, we could then put the twitch on because he would NEVER endanger himself. Twitch on and blindfold off he was like a lamb, vet could take bloods, vaccinate etc and I could pull his mane. This worked for all of us. He wasn't bullying us, we weren't bullying him, and we could quietly go about doing the necessary evils.
Can I add that in every other way he was a complete sweetheart.
 
Im definately a twitch ratherr than sedate person. My old pony was terrible to sheath clean - boardering on dangerous - and would fight sedation all the way. Even when the vet was on standby giving top up inj it took three of us to hold him and get the job done! However when I twiched him it only took me to clean and dad to hold the twitch, and was over and done with in minutes. He never had a specific problem with his sheath, he was just a boy who liked his privacy! :-)

I have also twitched Melly to clip her head when she managed to get a cut just below her forelock, over and done with in seconds and no stressing at all.

Twitching done properly will be no problem for anyone, its (like everything!) just when its done badly that there is a problem. If your friend at the yard is competant and is happy to help you with your girl, I would definately go down that route.
Hope that helps! :-)
 
Thank you all for your advice - think as the twitching worked last time, and the other livery is happy to help out again, that is the route we'll go down. I feel a bit mean doing it (silly idea in my head cos of the reading I did previously which i'll just have to get over) but it will make the whole process significantly less stressful for her, and hopefully she will eventually realise that its not going to hurt and things will get easier. :)
 
the quickest way to make a horse difficult to clip is to clip its legs. sounds like you have a mite y cob. if twitch works then this is the quickest and cheapest way to deal with the leg hair. just watch horse doesnt strike out (they do this at speed!!) you only really get 20 mins of good twitch time. i have a mite y cob in livery. he is fully clipped. fine for all of head, all of body and down to just above the knees and hocks. then he needs iv sedation (dom/torb/acp mix) to get the rest off. sedalin doesnt work for his legs. neither does iv sedevet. twitching just turns him into a very fast striking horse. this cob is regularly jabbed with dectomax, which stops the mites. his legs are clean and clear of itch or scabs but his memory of sore knees is a long one. Be careful when you clip his legs.
 
Poor you, it's a real dilemma knowing what to do. I have been in exactly the same position with my big chap, scabby knees and hairy legs. You really need to resolve the clipping issue because these type of horses always seem to have the 'scabby knee syndrome'.

I tried twitching and sedalin and various other things like tempting with carrots, a kick in the shins, shouting, pleading etc etc :p. The solution was buying cordless trimmers and doing advance and retreat. The good thing about cordless ones is you can keep the clippers on the leg even if your ned is prancing around, until they realise you aren't going to give up.

The trimmers I got are liveryman harmony and apparently they can do a full clip - on a normal horse :eek:

So, now I have a horse I can clip all over - but still with scabby knees! Although we have some improvement on that front now thanks to frontline spray, aloe Vera and persistent.

Good luck, I hope you don't get as obsessed as me.
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
the quickest way to make a horse difficult to clip is to clip its legs. sounds like you have a mite y cob. if twitch works then this is the quickest and cheapest way to deal with the leg hair. just watch horse doesnt strike out (they do this at speed!!) you only really get 20 mins of good twitch time. i have a mite y cob in livery. he is fully clipped. fine for all of head, all of body and down to just above the knees and hocks. then he needs iv sedation (dom/torb/acp mix) to get the rest off. sedalin doesnt work for his legs. neither does iv sedevet. twitching just turns him into a very fast striking horse. this cob is regularly jabbed with dectomax, which stops the mites. his legs are clean and clear of itch or scabs but his memory of sore knees is a long one. Be careful when you clip his legs.
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she literally just needs doing from her hocks down so should only take about 10 mins, and last time we twitched she just chilled totally. and yup, she's just had 2 injections for mites but the vet thinks thats not the main problem, she's got a chronic skin infection she's had for years that has been untreated, but thankfully seems to be starting to clear up now - is scabby instead of bleeding. poor girl must have been very sore for a long time - quietly fuming that her previous owners did nothing about it. :mad:
 
Harriettie said:
Poor you, it's a real dilemma knowing what to do. I have been in exactly the same position with my big chap, scabby knees and hairy legs. You really need to resolve the clipping issue because these type of horses always seem to have the 'scabby knee syndrome'.

I tried twitching and sedalin and various other things like tempting with carrots, a kick in the shins, shouting, pleading etc etc :p. The solution was buying cordless trimmers and doing advance and retreat. The good thing about cordless ones is you can keep the clippers on the leg even if your ned is prancing around, until they realise you aren't going to give up.

The trimmers I got are liveryman harmony and apparently they can do a full clip - on a normal horse :eek:

So, now I have a horse I can clip all over - but still with scabby knees! Although we have some improvement on that front now thanks to frontline spray, aloe Vera and persistent.

Good luck, I hope you don't get as obsessed as me.
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Thank you - will have a look into the liveryman but think last time I looked my bank balance screamed 'nooooooooooooooo' at me! got some cordless trimmers so will try with those. twitching does work with her, was just hoping for some miraculous other option!

and aloe vera seems to be helping her legs too :) - her skin infection is basically thickening the skin which is then cracking (and in her heels bleeding cos the cracks keep opening :() and the aloe seems to soften the scabs on her knees. vet has prescribed fuciderm which is an antibacterial cream I think which is clearing up her heels, so once the scabs are softened on her knees, will try it on there.

and think i'm doomed - I wake up dreaming about her legs, haha! oh, and saddles - she's huge and impossible to fit, lol! only had her since october - think if I get any more obsessed, anyone non-horsey I know will disown me :D
 
I know a mare who is now permanently on a low dose of steroids because it wasn't treated straight away when she first got it.

You might need antibiotics/anti inflams/pain killers to clear it up, its very very painful.

The mare I know used to have really bad swollen legs too and the skin used to be like it was so tight on her legs it would split and be really painful

You need to try and sort it before it gets to this stage.

I can understand why you are doing it, the hair will come off in lumps anyway. How are you treating it ? Hibiscrub, creams ??
 
NOISYGIRL said:
I know a mare who is now permanently on a low dose of steroids because it wasn't treated straight away when she first got it.

You might need antibiotics/anti inflams/pain killers to clear it up, its very very painful.

The mare I know used to have really bad swollen legs too and the skin used to be like it was so tight on her legs it would split and be really painful

You need to try and sort it before it gets to this stage.

I can understand why you are doing it, the hair will come off in lumps anyway. How are you treating it ? Hibiscrub, creams ??
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I've had the vet out, he's given her 2 mites injections as he thought she might have a low level which was slightly irritating so best to clear it. And for the infection i'm using hibiscrub (leaving it on for 5 mins - recommended by the vet) and fuciderm - seems to be doing the trick. The scabs in her heels were bleeding and really really sore, they're now scabbing up and she's much happier with me touching them. Using aloe to soften the skin on the back of her knees so it doesn't crack (again vet recommended) and then will start the fuciderm on that area too. The vet basically said it was a case of trial and error as she'd had the infection so long but fuciderm is the first thing we've tried, and - touch wood - it seems to be doing the trick :) He did say if nothing else works we'll try antibiotics but to get a decent dosage to the skin on her legs she'd have to have a long course of them and he'd prefer to try other possibilities first - don't fancy the idea of her being on antibiotics for months so fingers crossed the fuciderm continues to work its magic :)
 
I would carry on using a twitch - i don't see anything wrong with them - and having somebody hold an opposite leg up so they can't fidget. Failing that try some sedalin, you won't need much just to do legs :)
 
littleme said:
I would carry on using a twitch - i don't see anything wrong with them - and having somebody hold an opposite leg up so they can't fidget. Failing that try some sedalin, you won't need much just to do legs :)
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Tried the leg, doesn't work! she's a smart cookie (and think this has been going on for years so she's learnt little tricks) and knows she can lean on you and she will put her full weight on you and keep picking up the leg she doesn't want you to touch.

Is sedalin the paste that you can get from the vet?
 
flirtygerty said:
I'm puzzled as to how a twitch can be used wrongly.
I have never used one but seen it used often, so excuse my ignorance
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Tbh I don't know much about it but think from some of the reading that I've done that twitching on the ear can make horses headshy, and if a twitch is left on too long it can cause nerve damage - not sure if that's 100% correct though..........
 
D'sMum said:
I've had the vet out, he's given her 2 mites injections as he thought she might have a low level which was slightly irritating so best to clear it. And for the infection i'm using hibiscrub (leaving it on for 5 mins - recommended by the vet) and fuciderm - seems to be doing the trick. The scabs in her heels were bleeding and really really sore, they're now scabbing up and she's much happier with me touching them. Using aloe to soften the skin on the back of her knees so it doesn't crack (again vet recommended) and then will start the fuciderm on that area too. The vet basically said it was a case of trial and error as she'd had the infection so long but fuciderm is the first thing we've tried, and - touch wood - it seems to be doing the trick :) He did say if nothing else works we'll try antibiotics but to get a decent dosage to the skin on her legs she'd have to have a long course of them and he'd prefer to try other possibilities first - don't fancy the idea of her being on antibiotics for months so fingers crossed the fuciderm continues to work its magic :)
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Sounds like you're doing all you can then at the mo, and following vets advice, aloe is really good and I love fuciderm, my horses muzzle rubbed him years ago and used it on that was fab cleared up in a few days
 
flirtygerty said:
I'm puzzled as to how a twitch can be used wrongly.
I have never used one but seen it used often, so excuse my ignorance
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Over tightening, rough handling of the twitch, wrong kind of string used around the nose are the main causes. As far as i am aware ear twitching does not have the same effect, ie endorphin release, as the nose twitch, it just hurts. I hate ear twitching and it does make horses headshy. I find it makes them too scared to move as opposes to cant be bothered to move!
 
NOISYGIRL said:
Sounds like you're doing all you can then at the mo, and following vets advice, aloe is really good and I love fuciderm, my horses muzzle rubbed him years ago and used it on that was fab cleared up in a few days
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Thanks - has taken a while but fingers crossed we're getting there. Once its cleared i'm planning on using pig oil & sulphur to keep the area supple and hopefully prevent any future infections. Just want my girl mended :(
 
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