Louby
Well-Known Member
I was going to suggest full livery and/or facilities for dogs ie enclosed safe area, agility etc. What about a cattery too? Hope everything works out for you
Closing Livery Yard
- Thread starter scally
- Start date
fabbydo
Well-Known Member
We have recently started renting out facilities to a dog agility club. Big mistake. They bag up the poo and leave it on the mounting block or hay trailer!! Not sure how many more 'quite words' they need. The farm next door has a fenced dog exercise field. I was surprised how much people pay for it, £10 per dog. That might be worth trying.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
On the dog front, you need to be careful regarding change of use, you could easily find yourself spending a lot of money on a planning application only to find your neighbours (if you have any) object or the planners chuck their toys out.
Licensing law has recently changed in respect of dog day care and it has caught out a lot of the 'dog play areas'. As soon as an owner leaves a dog in the care of the 'play area owner/supervisor' a licence will be needed. If the owners stay with their own dog and simply exercise it themselves a licence is not needed but planning consent would be. On the commercial dog walking front, whilst it is unlicensed at present it will be by 2023.
There is a huge amount of money to be made with dog boarding/day care etc but a fair bit of red tape to go with it.
Caravan storage seems popular, we have a neighbour who has two big sheds with caravans in them along with a vintage car and a boat. i think the ever increasing theft of vehicles off peoples drives has increased the need for secure storage.
Licensing law has recently changed in respect of dog day care and it has caught out a lot of the 'dog play areas'. As soon as an owner leaves a dog in the care of the 'play area owner/supervisor' a licence will be needed. If the owners stay with their own dog and simply exercise it themselves a licence is not needed but planning consent would be. On the commercial dog walking front, whilst it is unlicensed at present it will be by 2023.
There is a huge amount of money to be made with dog boarding/day care etc but a fair bit of red tape to go with it.
Caravan storage seems popular, we have a neighbour who has two big sheds with caravans in them along with a vintage car and a boat. i think the ever increasing theft of vehicles off peoples drives has increased the need for secure storage.
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
Likewise....a livery yard near us also has doggy day care and after jumping through all the red-tape hoops the dog side is far more profitable (as well as less muddy and back breaking) than the liveries.
MissTyc
Well-Known Member
In the south east, yards that have secure fence (for dogs) and a barn/indoor (with a few bits like agility equipment) are booked solid at £10/hour ... I have to book 2-3 weeks in advance just to get a 7am slot, let alone during the day!
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
So sorry you're feeling this way OP.
As a fellow YO I feel for your predicament and its a shame that things have come to this.
But....... may I urge you not to be hasty?
Yes you're sick and tired of the whole thing right now, its been a bummer of a winter by anyone's standards and everyone is grousing and discontented. Your fields are churned up and it never seems to stop raining, and you're sick to death of your whining liveries.
However..... I would still urge you to just press the "Pause" button for just a second.
Your problem, I would suggest, is that you have the "wrong" liveries in your yard and/or you are offering the "wrong" sort of livery.
As others have said on here, IF it is the DIY's that are the main problem, then you might want to re-think that - either discontinue the DIY livery OR re-vamp it with a new (and far less free-and-easy) set of rules for the future, and the cost to reflect this.
I'm a YO but I don't offer Assisted or Full livery at my place; I'm not wanting to have that level of responsibility for other people's horses, end of. I'm only a small affair anyway, and realistically whilst I could fit 2 DIY's in, for peace and harmony's sake I only offer space for one. I live on site and it works out easier with just one livery! I think with DIY you have to be very strict and stipulate clearly in your Agreement(s) that DIY means DIY and not anything else!! I am lucky in that I have an excellent livery who is easy to get along with and looks after the place well.
You have to be VERY very fussy - better an empty yard than a full yard with the wrong people in it (as you've discovered!); and the problem is that if you've got a bad apple in the barrel then they'll infect everyone else on the yard. Which is obviously the situation you have OP.
Think you'll have to get rid of the people you've got, but all I'd say is to do it wisely and if you can do it without friction or unpleasantness, or else you'll be the Demon Yard Owner for miles around! Unfortunately its all too easy to get a bad name if disgruntled liveries go everywhere and grouse about it. Perhaps one way to do it would be to announce you'll be closing for "reburbishment" for a while............ or "personal reasons". Anything basically.
Then maybe you could think about offering "limited spaces for summer grazing" just to keep some money coming in, and then re-think the whole thing for next Autumn/Winter??
Just my thoughts.......
As a fellow YO I feel for your predicament and its a shame that things have come to this.
But....... may I urge you not to be hasty?
Yes you're sick and tired of the whole thing right now, its been a bummer of a winter by anyone's standards and everyone is grousing and discontented. Your fields are churned up and it never seems to stop raining, and you're sick to death of your whining liveries.
However..... I would still urge you to just press the "Pause" button for just a second.
Your problem, I would suggest, is that you have the "wrong" liveries in your yard and/or you are offering the "wrong" sort of livery.
As others have said on here, IF it is the DIY's that are the main problem, then you might want to re-think that - either discontinue the DIY livery OR re-vamp it with a new (and far less free-and-easy) set of rules for the future, and the cost to reflect this.
I'm a YO but I don't offer Assisted or Full livery at my place; I'm not wanting to have that level of responsibility for other people's horses, end of. I'm only a small affair anyway, and realistically whilst I could fit 2 DIY's in, for peace and harmony's sake I only offer space for one. I live on site and it works out easier with just one livery! I think with DIY you have to be very strict and stipulate clearly in your Agreement(s) that DIY means DIY and not anything else!! I am lucky in that I have an excellent livery who is easy to get along with and looks after the place well.
You have to be VERY very fussy - better an empty yard than a full yard with the wrong people in it (as you've discovered!); and the problem is that if you've got a bad apple in the barrel then they'll infect everyone else on the yard. Which is obviously the situation you have OP.
Think you'll have to get rid of the people you've got, but all I'd say is to do it wisely and if you can do it without friction or unpleasantness, or else you'll be the Demon Yard Owner for miles around! Unfortunately its all too easy to get a bad name if disgruntled liveries go everywhere and grouse about it. Perhaps one way to do it would be to announce you'll be closing for "reburbishment" for a while............ or "personal reasons". Anything basically.
Then maybe you could think about offering "limited spaces for summer grazing" just to keep some money coming in, and then re-think the whole thing for next Autumn/Winter??
Just my thoughts.......
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Annagain
Well-Known Member
Could you rent it to one person with a few horses - so they'd be responsible for maintenance etc?
asmp
Well-Known Member
Do you have good hacking from the yard? In other counties than mine, I know that you can pay to park up at a farm and go off on hacks. If they did around us I would pay to use it.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
This time of year makes a lot of horse people feel like crap. Even single horse owners are questioning their sanity, wellbeing, and why do I do this?! So I'm not sure that I'd rush to a huge decision this time of year.
If you enjoy certain aspects of being a YO, consider MiJodsR2BlinkinTite's advice above.
You could close down for a bit, take a breath, regroup, and then be very selective. Nothing wrong with that. I do know that some people do not offer DIY or anything aside from full board due to negative experiences with DIY. I am a member of another board where people often ask about opening up a yard and the advice is always no DIY. Sounds like less work, but too much trouble! So if you're open to it, you could revamp your approach or just take in certain boarders as it feels right. Or get completely out of it, your choice, ultimately.
Good yards can be hard to find, so I'd hate to see more and more closing down.
If you enjoy certain aspects of being a YO, consider MiJodsR2BlinkinTite's advice above.
You could close down for a bit, take a breath, regroup, and then be very selective. Nothing wrong with that. I do know that some people do not offer DIY or anything aside from full board due to negative experiences with DIY. I am a member of another board where people often ask about opening up a yard and the advice is always no DIY. Sounds like less work, but too much trouble! So if you're open to it, you could revamp your approach or just take in certain boarders as it feels right. Or get completely out of it, your choice, ultimately.
Good yards can be hard to find, so I'd hate to see more and more closing down.
pansymouse
Well-Known Member
My YO does storage and is always full - she's expanded the number of containers twice and is just about to go for more. It's easier and bigger money than horses.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
I know someone who does dog day care. She charges £530 a month for five days a week - 8.00 til 5. No bedding, no feed- owners provide their own- no hay. No mucking out. The profit margin compared to livery must be very good.
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
Lots of great suggestions. We pay £2000 p.a. per container to archive business paperwork so 10 of those plus a few full liveries?
scally
Well-Known Member
Thank you all so much for all your suggestions, horses certainly are not the way on paper they make next to nothing in fact when i have put in winter turnouts (indoor and outdoor), horsewalker improving facilities those years i have subsidised the business too much and profits over 10 years actually equal less than £1k. Storage containers (we have planning for those on another piece of land as it was previously used for that seems well worth it looking into further, doggy field and agility again no close neighbours etc etc so have looked into that today.
You have really helped. I am going to close the yard (keep it as it is though) and maybe in a few months reconsider have an odd livery or two but going to give myself time and breathing space. The trouble is so many yards in our area fly under the radar and when they charge £20 or £25 a week DIY it costs me £28 per week per stable (electric, insurance, water rates, business rates (0 at moment thankfully), muckheap removal, repairs, maintenance, income tax on everything I earn off yard, let alone my time and having to pay freelance staff and holiday cover when i am away etc etc, that is without taking any money for mortgage (as I have another job that covers that) the whinging, moaning, bitching, bullying and that includes me, and then being told how to manage MY land etc etc when you pay less than you can rent a room 12 x 12 room in house grates a bit close to the mark. As said I have had some lovely lovely liveries a joy to have the company is fantastic, everyone happy and been with me for years, sadly they have given up horses, moved away and I have had an horrific run.
You have really helped. I am going to close the yard (keep it as it is though) and maybe in a few months reconsider have an odd livery or two but going to give myself time and breathing space. The trouble is so many yards in our area fly under the radar and when they charge £20 or £25 a week DIY it costs me £28 per week per stable (electric, insurance, water rates, business rates (0 at moment thankfully), muckheap removal, repairs, maintenance, income tax on everything I earn off yard, let alone my time and having to pay freelance staff and holiday cover when i am away etc etc, that is without taking any money for mortgage (as I have another job that covers that) the whinging, moaning, bitching, bullying and that includes me, and then being told how to manage MY land etc etc when you pay less than you can rent a room 12 x 12 room in house grates a bit close to the mark. As said I have had some lovely lovely liveries a joy to have the company is fantastic, everyone happy and been with me for years, sadly they have given up horses, moved away and I have had an horrific run.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Sounds like a sensible way forward. Such a pity when places that invest in their facilities are not appreciated. I keep mine at home, and have considered paying for a DIY stable at a yard just to use the facilities, without actually moving the horse! This past week, I have paid for school hire on 2 occasions - £60, just to have 2 hours in a dry arena! Not sure how anyone can quibble when the facilities include stable, tack room, walker, arena, all weather turnout etc.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
This sounds like a good plan OP!
It does sound like you could do with a break! and I do think your main problem is that you've got a bum set of liveries right now who're bitching and moaning.
Plus (please don't take this as a criticism), but you seem to be the sort of person who falls over backwards to help and who takes negative comments to heart. For the future - sorry to be blunt here - you may need to toughen-up your approach a bit and be a little less "flexible". Have your livery contracts in place, and establish your yard-rules which are displayed in a prominent position, and of course make yourself available if anyone has a problem, but personally I think these liveries you have are taking the yellow-liquid big time and you'll be well shot of them. It's not many yards who'd install a horse-walker! They don't realise how lucky they are!
Sometimes less is more; and I think its a good plan to close-down what you've got right now which you recognise has gone toxic, and look to the future of maybe getting a few less liveries, but those people to be the types you really want on the yard and who are a pleasure to be with! Its not quantity, its quality you're after. I'm lucky in that I've got an excellent livery - and things are sooohh much easier that way! Its been lovely to see her and her little family progress from their ponies they arrived with ten years ago now, and now they're doing all sorts of stuff and going onto horses! I just luvvit! This is how things can and should be if you have the right liveries, and you sometimes have to cut away the dead-wood in order to achieve the greater good.
I've been doing DIY livery since we moved here in 1992; and in that time I've only ever had one really bad livery - and thank god she only stayed for a month!
Be fussy, be choosy, be VERY choosy! In fact, be as choosy as you'd be if you were buying a horse (if that makes sense!!). Rely on your gut instinct; and be careful of the "friends-of-friends" syndrome.........
Good luck! You deserve success; and I think give yourself a bit of space and you might feel more positive about starting out again.
It does sound like you could do with a break! and I do think your main problem is that you've got a bum set of liveries right now who're bitching and moaning.
Plus (please don't take this as a criticism), but you seem to be the sort of person who falls over backwards to help and who takes negative comments to heart. For the future - sorry to be blunt here - you may need to toughen-up your approach a bit and be a little less "flexible". Have your livery contracts in place, and establish your yard-rules which are displayed in a prominent position, and of course make yourself available if anyone has a problem, but personally I think these liveries you have are taking the yellow-liquid big time and you'll be well shot of them. It's not many yards who'd install a horse-walker! They don't realise how lucky they are!
Sometimes less is more; and I think its a good plan to close-down what you've got right now which you recognise has gone toxic, and look to the future of maybe getting a few less liveries, but those people to be the types you really want on the yard and who are a pleasure to be with! Its not quantity, its quality you're after. I'm lucky in that I've got an excellent livery - and things are sooohh much easier that way! Its been lovely to see her and her little family progress from their ponies they arrived with ten years ago now, and now they're doing all sorts of stuff and going onto horses! I just luvvit! This is how things can and should be if you have the right liveries, and you sometimes have to cut away the dead-wood in order to achieve the greater good.
I've been doing DIY livery since we moved here in 1992; and in that time I've only ever had one really bad livery - and thank god she only stayed for a month!
Be fussy, be choosy, be VERY choosy! In fact, be as choosy as you'd be if you were buying a horse (if that makes sense!!). Rely on your gut instinct; and be careful of the "friends-of-friends" syndrome.........
Good luck! You deserve success; and I think give yourself a bit of space and you might feel more positive about starting out again.
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9tails
Well-Known Member
On the subject of cats, nah it's unlikely to work. Cats tend to be scared to travel, are scared of new places, don't mix well and would probably spend their allotted time hiding in a dark inaccessible place.
little_critter
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, why are you paying a freelancer to cover a DIY yard when you are on holiday?
Afon_34
Well-Known Member
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
my last YO didnt want to take us (my friend and myself) on diy as she was very disillusioned with previous ones. she eventually said we could come to her yard but it would be 3 months trial period and if she wasnt happy with us we would have to go. well we have all ended up being really good friends, my friend and i have helped with her horses and she has bent over backwards to make sure we were happy. my friend is still there over 5 years on and although i now dont have a horse i am on call to help if YO needs me... she takes great delight on telling people about how pleasantly surprised she was with how we looked after our horses and her yard, so maybe do similar if you decide to re start taking liveries again...
planete
Well-Known Member
One riding school local to me has reinvented itself as a dog training facility. The paddocks are available for hire to dog trainers and owners as is the old covered school. Dog proof fencing for the fields, agility equipment provided. Online booking facilities for field and barn hire. Plenty of parking. It has attracted some seriously good dog trainers who did not have their own grounds, there are events in the barn every week-end (competitions and training days from visiting top trainers) and a dog groomer has set up in some of the stabling, as well as a pet shop. It is now an amazing facility requiring minimal maintenance and administration.
scally
Well-Known Member
I have a freelance in to house sit and makes sure yard is ok do my horses, late check check DIYs are all ok and to do what i do (morning evening feeds, turnout if people cant or swap horses over midday if people at work).
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite you are right I do take things to heart and get upset and i do need to grew a thick skin. I do try but I find it so hard, as just want horses firstly happy and then the people but i guess they see me as soft. There have been days I dont want to go on to my own yard, sat in crying anaylise every little thing. Listened to sob stories on why then can come in quick as the yards are terrible stables leak, fencing unsafe and now i know why, let people pay weekly, big mistake these have proven to be the worse liveries of all, as they can cause mayhem and just go wtih no notice cause damage, stolen off me and left owing hayman etc etc etc. I need to toughen up a lot.
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions it has really helped me.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite you are right I do take things to heart and get upset and i do need to grew a thick skin. I do try but I find it so hard, as just want horses firstly happy and then the people but i guess they see me as soft. There have been days I dont want to go on to my own yard, sat in crying anaylise every little thing. Listened to sob stories on why then can come in quick as the yards are terrible stables leak, fencing unsafe and now i know why, let people pay weekly, big mistake these have proven to be the worse liveries of all, as they can cause mayhem and just go wtih no notice cause damage, stolen off me and left owing hayman etc etc etc. I need to toughen up a lot.
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions it has really helped me.