Clostridia Poisoning

[Questknox]

I lost my horse to clostridia infection just over three months ago. This was a very distressing experience to find him dead in the field with blood streaming from his eyes and nostrils.

He had been checked and was fine the day before trotting up the field to me and eating his dinner, very alert and his usual self I had never heard of this before it happened to me, when I found my beautiful homebred big strong horse dead in the field. I was told after the post mortem by my own vet and by our neighbour also a vet, that he would be dead within a max of four hours of the bacteria entering his body, by either breathing it in, digesting it or it entering via a puncture wound.

There was nothing I could have done.

There were three other horses in the field unaffected by it. My horse was apparently unlucky. It is commonly known in sheep (blacks disease, blackwater disease, blackleg) and a vaccine is available in this country for sheep (and for cattle) but not as yet for horses. It is resident in all soil like tetanus but something (?) activates it.
There are many different types of clostridia bacteria but Quests symptoms were the same as those found in sheep and cattle.

Unless you have had personal experience of this it is relatively little known.

I seriously believe that it may be more common than we think but unless a post mortem is performed we put it down to other things, for example initially I thought he’d had a brain haemorrhage.. Not everyone can afford to have a pm done and insurance will not cover the cost of a pm so stats are not readily available as to the occurrence of this indiscriminate killer.

I have now started a blog in Quests name (see my website link) to try to get some support for a campaign to make the vaccine against this strain available to horses as this at least eliminates one risk and may save lives.

All I am trying to do is make people aware that it exists and that we could prevent it if a vaccine was available in this country

The drug companies won't manufacture the vaccine for horses unless there is a demand and the demand won't be created unless people know of the risk.

THIS BACTERIA CAN AFFECT ANY HORSE ANYWHERE ANYTIME WITH NO WARNING. DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE RISK WITH YOUR HORSE?

I feel really robbed of his life and that no-one should have to go through what I and my horse did and I do not want him to have died in vain, so if anyone out there thinks they may be able to see a way to offering any support at all in publicising the existence of this terrible terrible killer bacteria, and help to get aa vaccine out there to stop other needless horse deaths I would be very grateful.

 

[rachi0]

I'm very sorry for your loss... I can't even begin to imagine what that must of been like to find your horse like that dead in the paddock...

I work on a tb stud.. and a certain strain of the clostridia bacteria is quite common in causing an awful case of gastroenteritis... normally involving said foal to be taken into the vets to be put on a drip for a good few days.. in isolation and monitored round the clock! (i'm not sure on exactly which one it is..) - and many different strains of this bacteria are found in the horses own gut... and it can be found in the soil for many years after contamination.

I have attached a link to a veterinary journal that explains the signs and symptoms of the different strains. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/toc_50700.htm

again.. i'm very sorry for your loss.

 

[Questknox]

Thank you for your response and your concern, I have looked at Mercks before when this first happened. The bacteria is so resilient it was even found active when the pyramids were opened after all that time!

The cases you are seeing with the foals is quite common in Kentucky and all foals are vaccinated against this over there ...but not here.

When this happened to Quest, it looked as though he had just gone straight down as there were no marks in the ground around him to suggest any form of thrashing around and he had droppings behind his tail which were solid.

I had seen the blood on his head but there was also blood coming from his rectum and penis. All orifices in fact. He was also very 'blown up' with gas.

His body temperature was still not back down to normal when the pm was done approx 5 hours after I had found him. All of this apparently marked the strain out to be that which causes the sheep and cattle issues and that is why I am trying to get the vaccine developed for horses.

It seems sinful to me that we could eliminate at least one risk but we don't have the means available to us. If even one more horse dies in this way it is such a waste

 

[Oliver12]

I'm so sorry for your loss but thank you so much for posting this.

A few weeks ago a lovely young four year old gelding suddenly died with very similar symptoms to your horse. The whole yard were saddened and shocked as he appeared normal just the day before. The owner was very distressed and would not speak to anyone on the yard about it and no more has been heard from her. The YO contacted the veterinary practice concerned as we were all worried that he had been poisoned in some way but all he was told was that the horse had a weak immune system but due to confidentiality would not give us any more information. I have searched on the internet but have not been able to find any disease that could cause bleeding from the penis/rectum/eyes and nose, shock, blood count dropping to almost zero and then death.

Once again, I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[applecart14]

I lost my horse to clostridia infection just over three months ago. This was a very distressing experience to find him dead in the field with blood streaming from his eyes and nostrils.

He had been checked and was fine the day before trotting up the field to me and eating his dinner, very alert and his usual self I had never heard of this before it happened to me, when I found my beautiful homebred big strong horse dead in the field. I was told after the post mortem by my own vet and by our neighbour also a vet, that he would be dead within a max of four hours of the bacteria entering his body, by either breathing it in, digesting it or it entering via a puncture wound.

There was nothing I could have done.

There were three other horses in the field unaffected by it. My horse was apparently unlucky. It is commonly known in sheep (blacks disease, blackwater disease, blackleg) and a vaccine is available in this country for sheep (and for cattle) but not as yet for horses. It is resident in all soil like tetanus but something (?) activates it.
There are many different types of clostridia bacteria but Quests symptoms were the same as those found in sheep and cattle.

Unless you have had personal experience of this it is relatively little known.

I seriously believe that it may be more common than we think but unless a post mortem is performed we put it down to other things, for example initially I thought he’d had a brain haemorrhage.. Not everyone can afford to have a pm done and insurance will not cover the cost of a pm so stats are not readily available as to the occurrence of this indiscriminate killer.

I have now started a blog in Quests name (see my website link) to try to get some support for a campaign to make the vaccine against this strain available to horses as this at least eliminates one risk and may save lives.

All I am trying to do is make people aware that it exists and that we could prevent it if a vaccine was available in this country

The drug companies won't manufacture the vaccine for horses unless there is a demand and the demand won't be created unless people know of the risk.

THIS BACTERIA CAN AFFECT ANY HORSE ANYWHERE ANYTIME WITH NO WARNING. DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE RISK WITH YOUR HORSE?

I feel really robbed of his life and that no-one should have to go through what I and my horse did and I do not want him to have died in vain, so if anyone out there thinks they may be able to see a way to offering any support at all in publicising the existence of this terrible terrible killer bacteria, and help to get aa vaccine out there to stop other needless horse deaths I would be very grateful.

Questnox I am so very sorry. I hope you find the answer in your quest to publicise this terrible disease. I wish you lcuk

 

[Questknox]

I am sure that many more horses die in this way without it being diagnosed as clostridia poisoning but the symptoms are very specific to the bacteria as described.
If I can get more stats on the occurence of this then the drug companies may decide to make the vaccine available for horses. If you or your yard friends want to support the campaign please visit quests blog http://quest-horseequinepoisoning.blogspot.com/ and register your support
thank you

 

[Questknox]

I have now set up a facebook page for Quest as questknox@yahoo.co.uk. There is a survey on here which is only 8 questions long and will take 5 mins to complete. It may provide me with the support I need to persuede the drug companies to start producing the vaccine for horses.

Please take the time to complete the survey and support the campaign

thank you

 

[LynH]

One of my horses recently had colitis and when she was admitted to the vet hospital they tested for clostridia. Apparently is it one of the main causes of colitis and I imagine that the colitis would be stated as the cause of death rather than the bacteria that caused it. It would be useful to know how may fatal and non-fatal cases of colitis were caused by clostridia.

Fortunately my horse did not have clostridia and she was one of the lucky ones who survived a bad bout of colitis. She is still recovering several weeks later but I was surprised how quickly she went downhill but without the obvious pain of a colic. I still have no idea what caused the colitis.

If a vaccine could prevent this form of colitis I would definitely vaccinate in future. I will complete your survey and wish you lots of luck with your campaign.

 

[Questknox]

Thank you LynH.

I am sorry to hear of what happened to your horse but really pleased he was ok in the end.

I have had a response from NOAH (national organisation for animal health) and they have agreed to approach the drug companies to ask why a vaccine isn't available but i know the answer will be lack of demand. The more people who complete the survey the more chance i have of proving the demand.

Please talk to your friends and ask them to complete the survey too

 

[Rollin]

Is this the same organism which causese Clostridium Difficile in people? I think the first major outbreak was in Northwick Park Hospital about 20 years ago. GI problems which can be life threatening.

 

[Questknox]

My vet indicated that it was quite a problem in hospitals so i guess it probably is

 

[emmajanerushton]

Have just lost my mare to something along these lines will read your post then reply some more x

 

[emmajanerushton]

Will copy my post from another forum in a sad way glad to find others that have gone through similar and that im not just mad and crazy wanting answers

Will find out tommrow if this bacteruim or one very similar as about 7 types of Clostriduim one harmless most completly fatal, just looking on you tube if you put aytypical Myopathy in you will se an icelandic horse doing very much and looking very much the same as my mare before admittance to hospital.

While this is very rare, my mare started on the tuesday with Suspected lammy/ colic befire horse and hound came out on the thursday ( not the week just gone the week before) and my blood ran cold when read the symptoms, all excpet the red wee, we had, though was so rare vets thought not at first, outcome would have been same no matter what its just driving me nuts wanting to find out more.

Myopathy is muscle damage where they dont function properley and this is effectvly over 7 - 10 days what happened with my mares guts, the swaying presumed to be laminitis and the sweating with no adverse temeperature, are all pointing to this.

WE GAVE FULL PERMISSION FOR SAMPLES FROM ALL OVER HER BODY TO BE TAKEN AND HAVE BEEN SENT TO AHT IN NEWMARKET AND AM AWAITING RESULTS - To late for my lovley lady, please please dont be scared to press your vet for more urgent treatment and tests if your horse is off colour, If Keishas death can teach us anything it will, she was sweet in life and hopefully her passing will help others.

While she was 13 and full vacc and upto date wormed and worm counted, in full health this started Tuesday 2nd Nov and she died Friday 12th Nov, did put a time line on my other post will paste it back over with more details added to her symptoms as a possible help to others

Keishas Time Line

Monday 1st Nov - right as rain coming sound after doing splits three weeks previosuly - out with charlie, not out all the time but did spend more time in the field in the last 2 weeks due to being rested from work with strain.

Both came in for the night

Tuesday 2nd Nov Morning 9am Collapsed in a sweaty heap in stable, LW stable rug DRIPIPING in sweat, swaying and hitting walls trying to getting up, vet called painkillers and acp as looked laminitic maybe a little colicy. Seemed more setteled after pain killers.

Wed Thur Fri Sat - Various bright some days, very foot sore, bar shoes fitted as precaution Thursday. Thinking bog standard laminitis, was as if she couldnt lift her feet from the floor but was more locked up over hind end, staggered gait most days.

Sunday went manic in stable - head flicking, neighing generally bright but unsetteled brought char in next to her, tail swishing, hay eating started to slow down, normally a foooodie but dregs left

Monday seemed fine - again a little hay left minimal poohs - Bran & Hi Fi Left presumed as didnt want bute

Tuesday x rayed 8% rotation of pedals but bright and happy, vet said seemed much brighter, though feed left Meds administered directly by syringe

Wed - a ok day - not eating much ( very unlike her) - feed not touched syringed in bute, very little pooh and a little clammy/slightly sweaty

Thursday morn fine but hay and feed left

Stable Girls reported she was up and seemed ok at 4 - 5pm

Thursday 7pm gets to stables she collapses and starts colicking really bad. rolling, head baning, tail swishing really badly, neck outstreched, do have pics of this but quite distressing to see. Vet out in the hour painkillers massive dose and buscopan, Referal to hosiptal, stomach tap, yellow slightly cloudy, rectal felt impacted one side, ultrasound looked to have a fatty lump (lipoma) that may have flipped over intestine and be sqeezing her small instetine but hard to see as a big deep bodied mare.

Emergency Colic surgery, no twist found bowels severley impacted goes with the not eating - cleared out, the back bowel ( hind Gut)almost not function unable to move anything (Paralysis), Fluid Threpay and instensive nursing, fluids backing up and abdoman distending, gut motility zero, slowly deteriorating until 2pm today collapsed and put to sleep.

 

[Questknox]

I am sorry to hear of the loss of your horse believe me i know how it feels.

NOAH have refused to take it any further even though i had a pm because i had no lab tests done.

My vet and my next door neighbour (also a vet) and the horse and hound vet who wrote the last article using Quest as a case study all pinpointed the same strain of clostridia that causes death in sheep for which we have a vaccine, they did not need lab tests as the symptoms are so distinctive.

Much as i would like to think Quest did not die in vain i do not think i can continue with the campaign as there has been very little support from any of the organisations i have approached and i don't think i can achieve any more on my own. Despite over 80 friends joining Quests Facebook page only 14 people in total completed the survey, which i guess shows that unless you have actually experienced this then you may be sympathetic but not committted enough to change anything.

I really hope it is as rare as is beleived but i still don't think it is. At least I have been able to make people more aware with the vet article and letters being published in various magazines so next time a horse dies like this clostridia may be in peoples minds and real stats may become available.

thank you to all who answered this thread and please continue to spread the word

In Memory of Quest