Cob with kissing spines. Long story! sorry!

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MorganExpress

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I have a 16 year old cob that was diagnosed with kissing spines at 14. This his story-
I bought him as a 11 year old out of work and fat, bought him back into work slowly and was winning elementary level dressage, show jumping, hacking and showing successfully. I used to ride him every night for an hour either schooling, jumping or hacking in company (never hacked alone was terrified for some reason) then with uni commitments went to half an hour then gradually down to 4 times a week for half an hour a time.
He has always had a moody temperament liked to throw the odd buck or leap here and again, but one day did a full rear for no apparent reason, put it down to spook and carried on. Week after I was lunging him and he couldn't get the correct canter lead, next day I rode him and still couldn't get correct canter and instead bucked and bunny hopped. Phoned vet who said he had most probz bruised and give him time off.
He had a full month off work before we started lunging but this time was so much worse, wouldst go into trot and when he did it was uptight and unbalanced not the usual powerful trot of a cob, then his canter was awful he couldnt keep to one elad and used to end up bucking uncontrollably. I then started hacking him out in walk and trot and he seemed okay until that became to much and he started rearing again. Had further time off and bute and was a bit better.
Lunging improved slightly was more forward but still unbalanced. The next day my friends daughter wanted to sit on him as she always did with him (shes 5) and the minute she got on (bare back) his eyes flashed and he reared and bolted and threw her ( so out of character) so phoned vet straight and requested second opinion.
Vet said that swelling was not in fact bruised or pulled muscle but 99% sure it was kissing spines (never heard of it) read up and saw all the symptoms were him to a T put took so long to diagnose because he was always un willing to go forward and bucking ...
Anyway we discussed treatment and vet said he would need scans to 100% confirm then an operation, we live over 4 hours from nearest horse hospital, vet said it would be long for him and strenuous (not best traveler) and just to retire him (insurance didn't cover kissing spines ! b***** e&l)

My question is what are your experiences with kissing spine? He seems happy enough grazing with his other retired friend has a few stiff days but seems okay. He isnt worked at all any more and is on 24 hour turnout. Is there a chance he still in pain and it isnt obvious to me? Am i doing the right thing? Ive read alot of forums on this and most people suggest PTS. I have a farm so livery isnt a problem and he could spend the rest of his days grazing here but I want to make sure he is comfortable?!
 
Gosh - not sure where to start, but guess my question is would you be prepared to operate or not? I suspect that you gradually built his fitness up and the muscle supported his back and allowed him to cope with working, when you reduced his fitness regime, he would have lost some of that muscle and if there is a tendency to KS then the lack of support from muscles would have allowed it to rear its head. Happened with mine, I started with major tantrums when he was a baby but didn't understand the problem, he got fit and coped then I got pregnant, he stoppped being fit and then when I started riding again he couldn't cope. I operated as there was nothing else wrong and he was young. I think he was suffering from constant low level pain before his op and imho, rest is the worst thing for ks, correct long and low ground and ridden work is good. My horse is happy fit and well 7yrs on, but if you operate you still have to work them correctly and regularly, it is a commitment. If you think you want to go down the operation route there are several very clever ways to do it now, I woud just check that the KS hasn't caused any other issues and given his age he could cope with op, but you would want to make sure he isn't suffering from arthritic changes, SI or feet issues that could hold back a successful rehab, if he has carried himself incorrectly for 14yrs he may have put unknown pressure on some of his joints so check it out first thoroughly before you go ahead - on a final note, I have no regrets my horse is now 14 and for the most part doing well, also check your horse has good foot balance because I have taken mine barefoot as his weren't and they are very sensitive to that being wrong. Good luck.
 
That was also my theory! Glad your horse is doing well :) I was up for the operation but the fact that he doesn't travel and it is at least 4 hours away and that the insurance won't cover any of it is the reason why he hasn't had it. His feet are deteriorating badly, he has the farrier every 6 weeks and ive noticed his hind hooves are much narrower almost to a point ... I have spoken to the operating center and they admitted ideally he isnt the best candidate and being the awkward hard to handle horse he is wouldnt deal well with the rehabilitation either as he doesn't stable well or lunge quietly.. its either spook and stop or a million miles an hour.

He doesnt seem to be in pain im watching him trot across the field now from my window and hes stiff and unbalanced but forward, hes shiny and has bright eyes and pink gums - I am just sick of people (non horsey people) telling me to PTS that its the kindest thing when honestly looking at him you wouldn't say there is anything wrong. I have a cupboard of bute here that he has on his bad days e.e ground is hard or he's lay down for long ... am i being unkind keeping him like this?
 
That is exactly my reasoning Amymay! Obviously If i find he doesn't trot or play with his friend any more and just seems down in himself then I will have to consider it , but I was just worrying whether anyone with more experience in this area could tell me if he is in pain an not showing? am i doing him more harm leaving him out? Are there alternative therapies that i could use instead of bute when he has a bad day ?
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with using Bute at all - and I wouldn't hesitate to administer it either daily or on an adhoc basis when needed.

I would also have thought the horse is better out than in.
 
Well I would go along with the fact that you know your horse the best and if you are happy that he is happy then go with it.

The only thing i would say is that my horse would have flare ups in all respects of life which made him hard to handle on the ground as well as ridden and he was randomly very spooky which made him quite unpredictable. He was and is very good natured, but the vet said he would have low level fairly constant niggles which surprised me because he didn't give out those vibes in the field.

Just as an aside, before his op I didn't ride for 6mths but did ground work to try to get him a bit fitter. I never lunge as I think it makes them very one sided and he would try to kill me, but I was taught to long rein properly which he took to like a duck to water no tantrums after we initially started, unlike a pessoa or lunge, it allowed me to strengthen him and keep him going and it gave him a new lease of life. He and I really still really enjoy it and you may find that is something you can enjoy doing with him to give him something different from just the field if you wanted to. Good luck and if bute works, go with it!
 
If you could find 2000 quid for the operation and follow up I would recommend it. See my thread in vets about my horse. The rehab for ligament resection is only six weeks and I never box rested mine at all, though that was against the advice of the vets.

Otherwise, I would retire him as you plan to and check him regularly for back muscle spasm which would show you that he is in pain.

Be aware also that according to my vet, they have realised that Bute is not very effective against back pain.
 
Hello,
Just a couple of ideas, but no problem in retiring him on bute either
Some people have success with steroid injections into the spinal area rather than the full blown operation. This can help reduce the pain while muscles can be built up by correct rehabilitation.
Are you in the middle of no where? 4 hours seems a long way away some practices use visiting surgeons to do operations could this be a possibility? I don't mean to get at your vet, I am not a vet but have seen a few horses presented to the vet believing it is with kissing spine and it is actually something else. It seems a shame in a way if it is something else? Would your insurance pay for diagnostics not sure how it works if they won't pay for kissing spine.
Hope this might help?
 
What good points. KS is often mistaken when the pain is caused by SI issues, PSD or ulcers. You'd need xrays and a steroid injection test to be sure the kissing spines are actually the culprit. The injections added £500 to my bill but they were essential to prove that it was his back that was causing the pain.
 
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