Cockapoo

Sorry your mother is so anti staffies. Such a shame. I have three rescues currently lying over me, they hardly moult, are very active, extremely loving and spend a vast amount of time at the yard and shows, mixing with lots of people and dogs. Fair enough if she doesn't like the look of the breed, but they are a breed that needs to be reclaimed by proper dog people! Mine have changed a lot of people's perceptions on the breed but they ARE high energy terriers..
 
Thanks for your comments everyone :)

I have shown Mum this thread and she is mortified! No way will she be in contact with that site again. In fact she has decided to get either a purebred Cocker or a Pure Poodle.

Any input on either of those?
 
Persephone said:
Thanks for your comments everyone :)

I have shown Mum this thread and she is mortified! No way will she be in contact with that site again. In fact she has decided to get either a purebred Cocker or a Pure Poodle.

Any input on either of those?
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Lovely to hear that some people have sense.
The link to dogpages has breed rescues and most rescues know reputable breeders. In fact reputable breeders typically support their breed's rescue. The is at least one well known poodle breeder in your area on the list.
Cockers & poodles are very different breeds. Has your mother also considered Bichons, Cavaliers and other small breeds like powderpuff Chinese cresteds?-the less common breeds are often cheaper as puppies than more commercial breeds.
 
Cocker, but only cos I'm very spaniel biased. I much prefer the look of cockers and I think it would be a very energetic dog! They're basically small springers, so love to quarter the ground, hunt for squirrels. It would need lots of training and someone with time to do this and with experience of working types. Show cockers are probably calmer.
 
I did suggest both Bichon and Cavaliers funnily enough. She has a funny mindset about Terriers and Staffies for some reason, but then that's her choice.

She was going to do some more research tonight and is not averse to a rescue at all :)

I will e;mail her the link again :) Thanks for your help!
 
cinammontoast said:
Cocker, but only cos I'm very spaniel biased. I much prefer the look of cockers and I think it would be a very energetic dog! They're basically small springers, so love to quarter the ground, hunt for squirrels. It would need lots of training and someone with time to do this and with experience of working types. Show cockers are probably calmer.
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Her last Cocker was really dozy and quiet, he was a show type, but came from....you have guessed it...a puppy farm :( Well I am pretty sure it was from what she said, I could have throttled them last time, but at least they are making sure they don't repeat the mistake!

I get the distinct impression that my Dad would be happy with something a bit bigger tbh, but I'll bet Mum will win :p
 
Persephone, do you remember F, who came with me to meet you? She breeds working Cockers, i can ask if she is having a litter this year if you like?
 
Don't know any little poodles, but know a few standards who are all great dogs.

All the Cockers I have met have tended to be rather vocal, in your face, mouthy and rather dense......don't know if these are common traits....So can't say I am their biggest fan :)

That said I have a JRT! So clearly have dubious taste in dogs :)

BTW the Pointer x Cocker looks lovely ;)
 
If she's had a cocker before then why not try a poodle this time? I have a white miniature poodle, and as long as you treat it like a dog not like a child it will be a lovely dog! They only get snappy when not exercised, treated like a human child, spoilt rotten, allowed to be the boss and do whatever they like. I've had my mini for 7 years now, she has been there when my brother was born and she was only a year old then, she'd let him play with her paws, ears, open her mouth etc, I have NEVER seen my dog growl or look at someone in the wrong way, i complete stranger could go up to her and remove her favourite toy from her mouth and she wouldn't bat an eyelid. They don't moult, they need clipping, and they do need brushing more than smooth coat dogs, but you can do that while its on your lap in front of the tv. I have mine clipped quite short most of the time, i leave her tail fluffy and her head and ears so that's all i have to brush. Poodles do have the tendency to have weak teeth though so i have been advised by the vet not to give her hard bones or anything like that. Another thing i have to do is make sure to check her ears as poodles have long hair growing inside their ears, those can mix with the wax and form little plugs, during the 7 years i've had my dog thou, i haven't done anything special with her ears, just check them and clean them like you would with any other dog. They are very clever little dogs, mine easily learns new tricks in a few days. I'd reccomend a mini to anyone, will be happy to go into town, to the park, round the fields and will go for a whole day, they love agility too but will be equally happy staying home all day and it wont affect it. They really are great :)
Here's my little one:
Extremely hairy last winter
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not so hairy
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(she has an undershot jaw, an alcoholic bred her and took her away from her mum at 2 weeks old, i got her a few days after that, word of mouth, didn't pay a lot for her at all but my mums best friend is a vet so she got the proper care she needed, she's have died with him, i guess she's sort of a rescue)
Sorry for such a long reply! :o
 
If she likes a poodle, why not try a bedlington
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totally non shedding, very non terrier like, the calmest dog I have ever come across. Will run for ever outside or curl up cat like in the house. Has never growled, showed his teeth and is up for anything you want to do. He is nervous of nothing. Life is for living with a bedlington, but they are loyal, loving and real commedians. He can be a killer outside, ratting and rabbiting, but comes to call id fabulous off the lead. More macho than a poodle. totally non shedding, just needs a clip every couple of months, and you can do a show clip or a rough clip.

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I have a show lines cocker. Love her to pieces! Don't think I'd have another breed now. However a rare genetic mutation means she's blind, not down to breeding, according to ophthalmologist though. Hence mutation not genetic. So I'm obviously very spaniel biased!!! Hehe! As far as coat care goes, I just run the clippers over her and trim when she starts to look scruffy and brush her a couple of times a week.

Another one to think of, much as I love spaniels, my sister has a lovely little Mini Schnauzer. A similar size to my small cocker. Very sweet little dog and although sometimes forgotten by people, they are also non-moulting.

Glad she's been put of the cockapoo! Probably one of the most memorable ones I met when it was 3months old. An 'pedigree miniature apricot cockapoo' apparently *rolls eyes* said dog completely dwarfed a 7 month old Pixel (my cocker) Turns out the little poo had a throw back to standard lines and mini poo ended up the size of a small lab!!!
 
If not the pointer x below then I would recommend a poodle from the chosen breeds, they are clever and full of energy, and can be hardy when let to be make fab and fun and loyal little companions:)
I don't agree with lining the pockets of irresponsible back street breeders who sell pups with stupid made up names to the unsuspecting and uneducated for mega bucks:rolleyes: which inturn encourages more back street breeding and from dogs that cannot be equally health tested and for that price you can buy a one that is, which means encouraging responsible and healthy breeding. Just my opinion:p or a lovely rescue for a small donation fee.
 
cinammontoast said:
The part about less likely to get the health issues is utterly unscientific: please don't tell me the breeder told you this because it's rubbish! Who says crosses live longer than pedigrees? Where is the proof and the study and control groups? If you use two dogs with the same health issues, the genetic reasons will be similar so any health issues will more likely be exacerbated, not lessened.

Pups from a non moulting and moulting breed cross will be in a particular ratio of non moulting/moulting. There is no guarantee of coat type until the pup is grown. There are absolutely no guarantees and if a breeder tells you all the pups will be non moulting, then they are lying, basically. From the Australian guy who first ever bred labradoodles, I believe only one pup was non moulting in his first litter.

The breeder you link says people can visit pups of a week old: I have never heard of any decent breeder allowing people to visit pups so early. :( Smacks of puppies for profit, that site. Re-homes to fireside home? Many Tears rescue has a ton of ex-breeding cockers usually. :rolleyes:
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Oh it was only my breeding lecturer at uni who told me that, of course what does a fully qualified lecturer and researcher into many breeding fields know? He must be talking rubbish, I might as well never go to any of my breeding lectures again. *sigh*
 
I visited a vet school last year and one of the final year students was telling me she was planning on getting a Labradoodle when she was settled. When asked why she spouted the same drivel that the has just been copied.

I pointed out that-
A -the breeds shared hereditary problems so the likelihood was actually greater as fewer tests were done, certainly the pedigrees were not researched as thoroughly as by breeders looking to improve their breed.
B, Animals discarded from the breed were used to produce these puppies eg the F2 labradoodle that came in with Sebaceous Adenitis and was not diagnosed by their vet as "only poodles get SA" (which is incorrect) - SA showed up in the pedigree hence the endorsements "progeny not eligible for registration" and the reputable breeder of the grandparents had ceased breeding that line.
C - the original mating was done because no Standard poodles were available in that location & it was a failed experiment.
D - anyone paying money to support irresponsible breeding should be struck off the same as any vet supporting puppy farms with poor conditions.

How many years have English cockers & poodles been crossed? Probably less than 10 so where do they get the ages?
FWIW I know purebred poodles in their twenties and more in their late teens. The oldest got to 24.
I know odd cockers in their mid teens, most get nearly there.

Where does your lecturer get his/her info -from the puppy farmers' sale site perhaps?
 
What about a whippet? Mine is the easiest dog I've ever had. Small enough to pick up and can curl up small enough to fit on your knee, but not that small that you trip over him. Hes very, very people orientated, he just loves everyone he meets. He doesnt really moult and has a coat like velvet. He barks if someone knocks on the door, but he has never yapped. Hes very clever but generally well behaved for a puppy. He spends all day (and night :D ) sleeping and is happy with 20mins walk twice a day, but will also when an adult go out all day if you want. Hes my first whippet and I cant sing his praises highly enough.
 
I simply can't understand why anybody would pay so much for a Mongrel. Mine cost just over 100 pounds from the rescue and is a perfect little dog
 
Wifey I second a poodle, they are super dogs, despite the reputation.

Rowy I know you love your dog but please don't think your dog came from a good breeder, chalk it up to experience, most of us on here have done so at one time or another.
My English lecturer was a terrible speller. All you need to do to be a lecturer in many colleges is to have a degree in a relevant subject.
 
rowy said:
Oh it was only my breeding lecturer at uni who told me that, of course what does a fully qualified lecturer and researcher into many breeding fields know? He must be talking rubbish, I might as well never go to any of my breeding lectures again. *sigh*
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Sigh away. The deliberate blindness and stubbornness of youth! Sadly, I think your breeding lecturer needs to go back to his books and read up on basic genetics again. Inevitably, the progeny of two parents with health issues will show evidence of similar or at least be a carrier. For someone who is attending breeding lectures, I'm appalled that you would basically go to a small scale puppy farmer for a dog.

s4sugar said:
Where does your lecturer get his/her info -from the puppy farmers' sale site perhaps?
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Quite. I'm afraid that if I were to listen to everything my vet said, my dogs would be in a sorry state. Have you seen what food they recommend?! They get one day of training re nutrition, so they are not, imo, at all qualified to recommend food. Just because someone has a degree means sod all, unfortunately. You have some very experienced people on here and refusing to pay attention to what they say is just silly.

Give me the study re extended age of cross breeds and a decent study (verified by peers of he who wrote the study) re health issues being lessened in the way you insist upon. Can you not see that that is a highly unlikely claim?
 
rowy said:
We have a cockapoo whose breeder does all the health checks etc.
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Not according to their website Rowy.... Only test eyes, which is cheap and easy to do. They don't test hips/elbows etc which really important.

Also dislike that their bitches have had 3 litters by 4 years of age when any decent breeder would never have more than 1 a year and would never breed from a bitch less than 2 years old.

They do seem to be churning pups out fo profit rather than breeding their next pet/show/working dog for themselves. The later is the only sort of breeder I would buy from.
 
cinammontoast said:
Sigh away. The deliberate blindness and stubbornness of youth! Sadly, I think your breeding lecturer needs to go back to his books and read up on basic genetics again. Inevitably, the progeny of two parents with health issues will show evidence of similar or at least be a carrier. For someone who is attending breeding lectures, I'm appalled that you would basically go to a small scale puppy farmer for a dog.



Quite. I'm afraid that if I were to listen to everything my vet said, my dogs would be in a sorry state. Have you seen what food they recommend?! They get one day of training re nutrition, so they are not, imo, at all qualified to recommend food. Just because someone has a degree means sod all, unfortunately. You have some very experienced people on here and refusing to pay attention to what they say is just silly.

Give me the study re extended age of cross breeds and a decent study (verified by peers of he who wrote the study) re health issues being lessened in the way you insist upon. Can you not see that that is a highly unlikely claim?
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I can give you the name of the lecturer if you like. He isnt one of the ones who just got a degree and PGCE in order to be a lecturer, he has done much of his own research into lots of different fields of breeding. My course is equine sports science but the lecturer also has done research into many other different breeds. He specialises in genetics though as that is what he taught in our first year. As a scientist, everything he said made sense.

I, myself, didnt buy the dog. She is my sisters who my parents bought for her as she wanted a cockapoo as many people had told us what wonderful dogs they were and we went to check out the place etc. I am not against pedigree as we have a 8 month old labrador (who, despite having health checks etc has an overshot jaw :( ) and a pedigree shetland sheepdog who suffers from stress issues (can only be fed certain things as a lot give her a really bad stomach which is not pleasant on a dog who has a very fluffy bottom :P ) and before anyone else says, no they did not come from puppy farms.

My parents have bought from a puppy farm in the past, an old shetland sheepdog who ended up dieing pretty early, even though she was a wonderful dog and have thereby learnt from this and will not do so again.
Forgive me for sounding stupid but surely puppy farms are those that breed dogs every 6 months when they come into season until they are no longer able to breed? Or at least a fair way into their life? I havent vast experience on puppy farms as I was only a baby when my parents bought the sheltie from a puppy farm.

I am in no way an expert on dogs. I do love them! But am more into horses to be honest. In horses people cross breed as they make much stronger animals. i.e thoroughbreds often have many health and conformational issues but if you cross breed with a welsh for example, as long as mare and stallion being used have health checks and have no conformational problems.
 
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Yes but if you breed a breed of dog prone to say, HD and epilepsy, with a dog of a breed prone to HD and epilepsy, and have done no hip x-rays or checked out whether either of the breeding partners may be carriers of epilepsy, even if they are different breeds, you are still running a bigger chance of ending up with a dysplastic, epileptic puppy than if you mated two dogs of the same breed from several generations of low hip scoring animals, who were known never to have produced an epileptic - just crossing dogs willy-nilly does not make them healthier, I think is the point people are trying to make, for instance a lot of labradoodles are now presenting with hip issues and skin conditions.

You can't test for an overshot jaw and it is unlikely to cause her many problems, it's just a conformation/aesthetic issue, it is not a reason to shun pedigree dogs.
Again, stress is not something you can test for, it's an issue that often comes from the parent dogs of any breed or crossbreed or mongrel.

My own older dog has skin, stress and waterworks issues even though he was bred in the purple - it won't put me off the breed, but because I know exactly what lines he came from, I will know to avoid the same combination in future.
 
CaveCanem said:
Yes but if you breed a breed of dog prone to say, HD and epilepsy, with a dog of a breed prone to HD and epilepsy, and have done no hip x-rays or checked out whether either of the breeding partners may be carriers of epilepsy, even if they are different breeds, you are still running a bigger chance of ending up with a dysplastic, epileptic puppy than if you mated two dogs of the same breed from several generations of low hip scoring animals, who were known never to have produced an epileptic - just crossing dogs willy-nilly does not make them healthier, I think is the point people are trying to make, for instance a lot of labradoodles are now presenting with hip issues and skin conditions.

You can't test for an overshot jaw and it is unlikely to cause her many problems, it's just a conformation/aesthetic issue, it is not a reason to shun pedigree dogs.
Again, stress is not something you can test for, it's an issue that often comes from the parent dogs of any breed or crossbreed or mongrel.

My own older dog has skin, stress and waterworks issues even though he was bred in the purple - it won't put me off the breed, but because I know exactly what lines he came from, I will know to avoid the same combination in future.
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We were going to show the labrador but because of this we cant anymore :( She would have been a fantastic show dog as well because she has the most beautiful temperment, and many people have said how she is built to show!

I am not agreeing with the extreme price of cross breeds, I mean its not as if you can show or breed them (though ours is showing very good talent for agility!) And I think in the future, I would buy a cross breed from a shelter or somewhere (though I do have a dream to own a powder puff chinese crested ;) ).
 
That's life, we've had a number of dogs bought to show and they didn't end up being right one way or another, it's part of puppy buying and part of dog showing, you win some, you lose some, guess we've not been very good at picking one, one was a longcoat, our dog of a lifetime was beautifully put together but broke her leg when she was a puppy, our best winning male dog was a few cms to short to make it all the way, our best winning female dog was a bit shy and put on weight when she looked at food, we've had to miss shows because of females coming into season or dogs blowing their coats - bloody nightmare!

You'll be surprised to know I love powderpuff Chinese Cresteds :p :D
 
rowy said:
And I think in the future, I would buy a cross breed from a shelter or somewhere (though I do have a dream to own a powder puff chinese crested ;) ).
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In which case, I can put you in touch with a friend who has just aquired a puppy and has an adult too. She would only buy from excellent lines.

I think what your lecturer has told you needs challenging: it may be his own opinion, but unless he has verified studies published, then I'd be conducting separate research to back up what you say. :)
 
The reason why I dont like all this crossing is mainly because the particular puppy farm I am thinking about,crosses very bad examples of these dogs and people are buying them and fueling their trade. Because their dogs in the pure bred form are so bad. My friend's father went to look round out of interest and said that they are very bad, poor mothers with weeping eyes and dragged down and skinny. They dont show you the father just the mother and because people have seen them advertised they have started doing the crosses. You might have an ok dog and you can put any old example of another breed to it. The proper pedigree breeders would never put a good example of a pedigree onto a different breed! Why? Because they charge £300 a time for the stud fee, not a dog from up the road that might sound a good cross with another dog. They actually have pride in their breeding and what their dog breeds with.
 
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