Coffin bone fractures

[shadowboy]

Evening all , vet has been to see new boy and as no puss from poultice we have two potential options- bruised sole or fractured coffins bone (pedal bone) anyone had experience or either? In particular what prognosis and treatment was for the coffin bone injury?

We won't know for sure until x rays but very has requested another 48 hours to see if there is an improvement before going down the expensive route!

 

[Marydoll]

Tbh without x rays and a lameness work up its mainly guess work, im not sure how hes managed to pinpoint it without either, or has he had nerve blocks etc done ?

 

[lucy007]

No experience I'm afraid, but wishing all the best for a positive outcome for you.

 

[shadowboy]

No nerve blocks- he said this was the worst thing to do for a potential coffin bone injury as it encourages the horse to use the hoof which would destabilise the fracture if there is one. Basically the horse was Non reactive to hoof testers in a specific way but generally reactive over the whole sole. There is an increased pulse in the hoof that reduces away from the hoof. No puss from 24 hours poulticing and no improvement after 48 hours box rest so either deep seated bruise of something more sinister In the hoof hence why another 48 is being given before x rays are do e to confirm

 

[be positive]

Has a farrier looked at him? a vet is not always the best person with feet just because there has been no pus yet does not mean it is not an abscess, if it is deep it could take a long while to come out, not saying it is not a fracture but I would not rule out an abscess too quickly.
Prognosis for bruising is obviously good although it can take some time to resolve and may form an abscess, prognosis for a simple fracture is usually very good as the area is able to remain well stabilised within it's own natural cast, the hoof.

 

[shadowboy]

My farrier had a baby on Wednesday so can't make it hence going to vet- most farriers don't like treading on other's toes so no one else I rang was willing to come up!

 

[be positive]

My farrier had a baby on Wednesday so can't make it hence going to vet- most farriers don't like treading on other's toes so no one else I rang was willing to come up!

So who is covering her while she is off, surely she has made arrangements with other farriers in the area to do her work, in my area several farriers will cover each other for illness or holidays, they will always attend if a horse is lame, last time I had to call, when my farrier was off injured, two were en route within a few hours which was very much appreciated.

 

[Melody Grey]

I faced a very similar quandary with my mare two weeks ago. She's had two weeks off on bute ,had box rest for about the first 3 days and then started going out in the field for a couple of hours with hoof boots on the back and is now out all day without the hoof boots.

So far (touches wood) she's sound although does still have a dp and a little heat there. My vet was also enthusiastic to go down the diagnostic route at great expense but I insisted on box rest instead first.

I've absolutely no experience of coffin bone fractures I'm afraid, but my mare improved very quickly on the bruised feet, so potentially could be something more in your case? Is there absolutely no improvement on bute? How much bute are you giving?

I hope it turns out to just be bruised sole for you- I've been told it can be a slow process if it's severe.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have cared for both .
The coffin joint , the horse had a fairly long period of box rest four months I think was sound and went back to work , I don't know if it had issues in old age as I moved on .
The badly bruised sole was a bit of a palaver but the horse did come right her feet where not in good condition so we got that cracked and she was ok.

Both horses had deep clean beds and where box rested the bruised sole horse had her sole removed it was protracted but it was mainly care costs not vet bills .
The pedal bone horse had a set of X-rays ( pre MRIs and things ) and rest on a deep bed .

 

[Melody Grey]

Will also echo others' sentiments on the farrier being preferential to advise. Foolishly I let my vet have a dig around with a hoof knife (farrier is annoyed!) and has set us back being able to get her shod on the back- I live and learn!

 

[shadowboy]

No the farrier did not make other areangements- I actually only found out because he didn't show at the allotted time and one of the liveries told me- I've tried calling others but as I'm not a regular they aren't interested.

 

[Goldenstar]

If it may be broken pedal bone be careful best keep the horse still as poss and have an X-ray .
Better safe than sorry .

 

[Goldenstar]

No the farrier did not make other areangements- I actually only found out because he didn't show at the allotted time and one of the liveries told me- I've tried calling others but as I'm not a regular they aren't interested.

No farrier in their right mind is going to dig around in the foot of a horse with a suspected pedal fracture .

 

[shadowboy]

It wasn't suspected until after the vet had been. Farrier was booked for Thursday having thought it was an abscess. Vet came this morning and felt it wasn't an abscess but either a bruised sole or a fracture. The ringing around for farriers was done on Thursday before I had spoken to the vet- but as non were willing I had the vet out- who did no digging around as there was no specific point in sole showing a reaponce

 

[Goldenstar]

Digging about is not a good idea if there is a fracture .
Waiting two days might well bring an abscess to a head ( I hope so ) but I think you need to get your head round the horse perhaps needing some X-rays .

 

[shadowboy]

Digging about is not a good idea if there is a fracture .
Waiting two days might well bring an abscess to a head ( I hope so ) but I think you need to get your head round the horse perhaps needing some X-rays .

Totally, which is why the vet didn't do any. He has decided to wait 48 hours as the horse is uninsured (likely to be uninsured as it was a new policy taken out on Tuesday so likely to be contested!) so vet said as a just in case to wait 48 hours and to text him Sunday night to let him know if there was any improvement- if not he would x Ray Monday.

 

[Goldenstar]

It should not be too awful a bill for a set of X-rays .
If they start talking about MRIs and things make sure you understand why they are needed and check the treatment won't be the same as it would be without .

 

[Gingerwitch]

If they x ray make sure of the following
a/ they use a nail on the out side of the hoof to give an accurate guide if any displacement of the pedal bone
b/ they do an x ray from the rear, front and both sides of the hoof - yes may cost sllightly more, but you will get to see properly what is going on in the hoof - and ensure that they look to see if any collapsing to either side of the bones.

good luck

 

[Wagtail]

Often abscesses take more than 24 hours to 'pop'. My mare's took a week )wet poultice 3 days max).

I have had two horse with broken pedal bones. Both made 100% recovery. First one only needed 6 weeks' box rest, second one needed 6 months as the fracture was higher up.

Bruises can result in abscesses.

 

[kiskadee]

Get a good equine vet! Farriers are not allowed to diagnose or treat!! I could be more conditions than your vet has said. Why didn't he open up the foot? You need xrays to see if its fractured and why no pain relief??

 

[shadowboy]

Often abscesses take more than 24 hours to 'pop'. My mare's took a week )wet poultice 3 days max).

I have had two horse with broken pedal bones. Both made 100% recovery. First one only needed 6 weeks' box rest, second one needed 6 months as the fracture was higher up.

Bruises can result in abscesses.

Thanks for your reply wagtail- it was actually one of the few replies that actually answered my question! If we wait till Monday if it is an abscess it will have been present 4/5 days so more likely to have brewed. It could be a bruise hence again why there is a wait for x rays. The vet is trying to be open to options but at the same time not wasting my money if it turns out to be an abscess on the x rays. Whatever the cause the horse is being box rested so it makes no difference to wait until Monday so to speak.

 

[shadowboy]

Get a good equine vet! Farriers are not allowed to diagnose or treat!! I could be more conditions than your vet has said. Why didn't he open up the foot? You need xrays to see if its fractured and why no pain relief??

A vet has seen the horse, don't worry! He didn't open the hoof up because it would not be prudent to as there was no specific point of pain with hoof testers- also if it was a fracture this would be detrimental to the hoof. No pain relief was given to prevent the horse from too much activity in the box- ie to be more careful with his feet- it was also not given to help us judge if there was any improvement over the weekend- if bite was given this would mask any changes

 

[Goldenstar]

No it makes no difference to wait it's what I would do in your place .
the mare we bought had bruised soles that caused terrible abscesses all under her soles .
The vet cut the soles right back (gruesome ) and we then poulticed and protected with pads while the sole grew back the vet wrap bill was epic but I co owned the horse with a vet so it was not quite as painful.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Thanks for your reply wagtail- it was actually one of the few replies that actually answered my question! If we wait till Monday if it is an abscess it will have been present 4/5 days so more likely to have brewed. It could be a bruise hence again why there is a wait for x rays. The vet is trying to be open to options but at the same time not wasting my money if it turns out to be an abscess on the x rays. Whatever the cause the horse is being box rested so it makes no difference to wait until Monday so to speak.

Was there really any need to say this - it has come across extreamly rude and if you had even the slighest awareness of what i went through with the big lad with a suspected pedal bone fracture then you might have appreciated the advice.

 

[shadowboy]

Was there really any need to say this - it has come across extreamly rude and if you had even the slighest awareness of what i went through with the big lad with a suspected pedal bone fracture then you might have appreciated the advice.

Uh ok- one of the few- not the only one. I can see you're obviously upset by that- apologies but I was trying to get prognosis comments not question after question about why a vet/ farrier etc was called, but as I say, there were a FEW replies that helped.

 

[shadowboy]

No it makes no difference to wait it's what I would do in your place .
the mare we bought had bruised soles that caused terrible abscesses all under her soles .
The vet cut the soles right back (gruesome ) and we then poulticed and protected with pads while the sole grew back the vet wrap bill was epic but I co owned the horse with a vet so it was not quite as painful.

wow! How did you poultice? Was the horse willing to transfer weight to the other legs? How long for sole regrowth? What does a hoof look like without a sole? Do you have pics?

 

[Tnavas]

No nerve blocks- he said this was the worst thing to do for a potential coffin bone injury as it encourages the horse to use the hoof which would destabilise the fracture if there is one. Basically the horse was Non reactive to hoof testers in a specific way but generally reactive over the whole sole. There is an increased pulse in the hoof that reduces away from the hoof. No puss from 24 hours poulticing and no improvement after 48 hours box rest so either deep seated bruise of something more sinister In the hoof hence why another 48 is being given before x rays are do e to confirm

Keep poulticing, nice wet poultices to get the hoof soft enough to let the pus through. - I went through this drama many years ago to the point the horse went in for Xrays and the vet telling me it may be the end for my lovely horse. Nothing showed up on the Xray and despite hoof testers not revealing anything conclusive the vet told me to turn the horse out. A few weeks later when brought in for a regular trim the whole sole fell off and pus poured out. It must have been a very deep abscess and the poulticing hadn't been able to draw it out. My horse came sound and we had several more years together.

 

[EstherYoung]

Our youngest chipped a pedal bone, a combination of growing too fast and doing handbrake turns at speed in the field at 2yo. It's slightly different to a fracture in an older horse because their bones are like cheese and much softer than the ligaments, so they chip easily but they also mend easily. A bit like greenstick fractures in kids. Felixs did present exactly like an abscess, although with no swelling, and it was only when he didn't respond that the chip was diagnosed (and even then it took a referral to the 'God of xrays' to be sure). Our vet was always very positive about his chances, which is unusual for a vet. We yarded him on a soft straw bed for a couple of months and then started walking him out again. The only external sign was some odd flare that grew down the foot where the injury was, but the new growth above was very tight. Almost like he grew his own cast.

 

[budley95]

Lady at our yard had a pony that fractured her pedal bone 2 years ago now. Her 13.3 mare has just gone back into normal shoes after the pads and is jumping 3ft single jumps, is doing a lot of hacking again including roadwork. Long slow process but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Hoping for you and your horse it is just an abcess or bruised sole, but fractured pedal bone isnt the end of the world by any means.

 

[EstherYoung]

Ps Our vet said with Spuds latest abscess that 99% of acute foot lamenesses are abscesses, it's just if it doesn't come to a head quickly they like to xray to rule out a fracture. A stubborn abscess may benefit from movement, but a fracture needs restricted movement.

So don't panic that the vet has mentioned xrays, they're wanting to rule out a fracture before saying it's ok to start getting your horse moving, rather than looking to find one.