coffin join dej and pedal disorder

roloaimee

roloaimee

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hi my horse is tb x
i have had him for 5 years and nothing but problems -
he has had a kick which caused fracture
feet and pedal disorders
flat feet
sheered heals
and inflammatory bowel disease


so i have never been able to do anything with him

i really would like to do some very light competing - just a little bit of dressage

now and then he is lame - he is lame at the moment
he has corrective shoeing and the farrier is coming again
in a straight line he is fine
in a 20m circle he is fine - but on a tight circle on the right rein he is slightly un sound

people are telling me to put him on to bute - but i have always disliked this idea - the idea of masking a problem

the vet seems to think bute would keep him sound and he would be fine ?

i just wondered if anyone had had any experience with a horse with same problems?? and what your out come was ??
 
you could always try putting photos of his hooves on here and asking for opinions as there are some people on here who can offer some great advice (moorman/oberon/cpteyes)
 
people are telling me to put him on to bute - but i have always disliked this idea - the idea of masking a problem
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It's also anti-inflamatory, as well as pain relieving. Can never get my head round people's reluctance to medicate.....
 
amymay said:
It's also anti-inflamatory, as well as pain relieving. Can never get my head round people's reluctance to medicate.....
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^^ This ^^

Mine gets Danilon daily. Not enough to mask a big problem but enough to have an anti-inflamm effect and mean he can work, which in turn keeps him moving.

Medicating isn't the worst thing in the world as long as you've discussed with your vet and know what you're dealing with.
 
Definitely post some pics, then do some reading on moorman's and Rockley Farm's websites, and Rockely Farm blog. Your remedial shoeing is only treating symptoms, not the cause of his issues. And yes, bute might be a good option while you get things sorted.
 
thanks for your replies -

i wasnt really against the hole medicating - i just wanted peoples opinions, i was just worried about the long term effects if he had to stay on bute - off to the yard in a bit will take some pics and put them on if i can

chestnut cob? is your horse lame without the dandelion and sound with?
 
ok thanks - bit harsh! lol
i dont mean to sounding silly asking these questions - but please understand my horse has had everything he could have had - i just feel very cautious to anything these days!
 
lol thats ok haha - im such a diverer i need somebody to give me a kick up the a** most of the time!
thanks for help
 
roloaimee said:
thanks for your replies -

i wasnt really against the hole medicating - i just wanted peoples opinions, i was just worried about the long term effects if he had to stay on bute - off to the yard in a bit will take some pics and put them on if i can

chestnut cob? is your horse lame without the dandelion and sound with?
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I don't know! Vet originally told me to put him on it last year when he was quite lame due to hard ground, maybe 2/5 lame and very uncomfy (I thought we had reached the end at that point and was prepared to call the huntsman). He improved after a few days box rest and Danilon. Once he was sound and I'd changed farrier (use a remedial farrier now who shoes him very differently to how he was before), vet told me to keep him on the Danilon while the groud was hard but play around the dose to find the minimum I could get away with. That was 12 months ago. I discuss it periodically with my vet and we have talked about taking him off it but he says (and I agree) that he's a big horse with arthritis in all legs who needs to work to keep him sane and happy, so he is maintained on 2 a day.

I would say he would certainly be stiff without Danilon and yes, probably lame. Not catastrophically (ie life-ending) so but uncomfortable. He is happy and comfortable now, and he works which he enjoys. He is more unsound when out of work. I gave him a month off in March/Apr when hunting finished and he was very stiff by the end of that month, more so than after 8 days hunting.
 
roloaimee said:
ok thanks - bit harsh! lol
i dont mean to sounding silly asking these questions - but please understand my horse has had everything he could have had - i just feel very cautious to anything these days!
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You've not tried getting to the root of the problem - sadly the way the vet and farriery world is set up no-one recommends barefoot and addressing the funcamental health of the hoof. Read the success stories from Rockely Farm - it's not flannel, it works at a MUCH higher rate than any other form of treatment for these types of hoof issues.
 
Sbloom, remedial farriery CAN improve the foot, not just maintain it. A food farrier will look at changing the foot so it doesn't need additional support in the future, it annoys me that barefoot is seen as the only way of improving.matters by some parties, which is rubbish!
 
KatB said:
Sbloom, remedial farriery CAN improve the foot, not just maintain it. A food farrier will look at changing the foot so it doesn't need additional support in the future, it annoys me that barefoot is seen as the only way of improving.matters by some parties, which is rubbish!
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RE my mare who had severe under-run heels and long toes (especially on the NF). She was kept in shoes to begin with, to give her heel support and her hooves did change a lot (for the better) during this time. However, as soon as he could my new Farrier took her shoes off because he said that her hooves would improve quicker without them and that the end result would be better.
 
It can improve the foot but in my opinion and experience (DJD of the coffin joint with horse number 1, horse number two shod NB, then barefoot) it does not address the root of the problem - it treats the symptoms, with varying degrees of success.
 
re the bute/danilon I would want to find out if that might make the IBS first without using it.

My boy has DJD in RF, and reverse rotation in both front pedal bones.

He went lame last November and was never on bute (vet didn't advise it either), although we didn't want to cover the problem up at the time, not quite knowing what it was! When we did know what it was we gave steroid injections into the joint.

We did the remedial farriery for 12 weeks first and the exterior of the feet did look better than they had done (under run heels) but when he started to do more than just walk he went lame again. Only other option was padding his flat soles but I felt this was just covering up the situation too and not going to help in long run. Particularly as he wasn't a 'competition' horse just being affected by the hard ground (he is 19!)

Now trying barefoot as my choice but with vet support as I felt it was his best chance of having a useful life in the future. 11 weeks in and feet have change loads (can send you pics/vids if you would like to see for yourself)! much more than they managed to in remedial shoes. He is still sound currently although it is def not the easy option I felt he deserved a try before retiring. I am hoping he can come back to being a happy hacker and do some schooling/dressage ideally.

Useful websites if you consider this route rockleyfarm.blogspot.com
phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org (people here are very helpful as a newbie to it!)
 
ok - my phone has packed up today

this might give u an idea of rolos feet but not clear much

taken the other day - although has since been shod and has a wedge pad on the front right

he has in this photo got bar shoes with a wedge built in

389669_10150874868408021_1694155524_n.jpg
 
He has a wedge pad on one foot only?????

Can you tell us why your farrier did that, it seems very unusual?
 
his angle in his foot is broken - backwards i think - without it u can see the angle is out - but it hasnt helped him at all - i also thought this was odd - but i can only seem to try what professionals have advised - im starting to feel at a loss !!
ive tried so many things - also forgot to add rolo has had quaterzone (not sure how it is spelt) injections into his coffin joint
 
also - you can kind of see it in the pic
rolos coronet band in the left is higher than the right....
with the wedge theyre even
 
You sound like me in respect of the bute. I am fine giving my horse bute prior to a competition when his arthritis might take a pounding but I am really trying hard not to go down the route of daily bute. For the most part my horse is sound but sometimes is stiff or unlevel when first trotted.

Like my vet says, you have two choices. You either stick him in the field and forget about him or give him bute when you need to. It could be the lameness is caused by his arthritis - this is what my horse has and was diagnosed with moderate to severe arthritis in his coffin joints. The cortisone injections he had will only last so long, so long term bute may well be the answer to you and my prayers (much as we may resist at this time). For me, daily bute is a bit like 'end of the line' and I would worry about having to increase the dose when they get to the stage where they get used to it and then require more. Where do you then draw the line?? I am also resisting because it costs so damn much every day and because I am trying desperately to stave off the need for daily bute sachets until it becomes REALLY necessary. As for dying of bute, just forget about that. Like other posters have said, its hardly going to hurt your horse, it won't accumulate in the liver for a good many years. I wouldn't give it a second thought to be honest, after losing four horses in the space of less than seven years I take each day as it comes and try to enjoy every second with my horse, wondering about what's ahead is a pointless and futile exercise imho especially when it comes to bute.

I was wondering if he's lame on a tight right circle due to his sheared heels. You say you are receiving remedial farriery, I hope this isn't from the same farrier you were using when your horse developed sheared heels. Would be for that farrier a bit like making money out of making money from one's own mistake. Flat feet and sheared heels don't go well together anyway, and if your horse is in the first stages of remedial farriery I am wondering if the sheared heels are something to do with the unlevelness on a tighter circle. My youngster had sheared heels, he had them when I bought him. It was highlighted on the vetting report that he had a broken backed hoof/pastern axis and this conformation issue due to the long toes/low heel scenario had, along with naff shoeing, helped to cause this problem. It can be incredibly painful, bit like us walking on a deep cut that opens up if one side of our foot is higher than the other (not that it would be in humans!).

Of course I am merely suggesting and guessing this could be why. You really need a trot workup at the vets to ascertain what's wrong with your horse in case its something that, by riding, you exacerbate like a suspensory injury or the start of something else sinister.

Sorry if my words seem harsh to you, don't mean to be, I am a bit annoyed with your (previous) farrier and also the farrier who used to shoe my youngster previous to me buying him. Very bad work, should be struck off for the suffering bad farriers cause horses.
 
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fwiw I brought up wedges with my vet, as they were mentioned by my farrier, vet was most against using them saying you might get some short term gain but long term they do nothing to help the heels and tend to make them worth.

Rockley, for some reason in my head I have £150 a weekish maybe.. it has been mentioned on here before I know it isn't ridiculous compared to full livery elsewhere.

Certainly send Nic an email, I did and it was never going to be practical to send Frank there (as we only have two and would be a companion short) however she did give me lots of advice (as did others!) and a recommendation for a trimmer near me who I am now using and has been very good. I also have a copy of feet first which she wrote but that has been more useful for my mum (horses are at hers) than me as I had picked most of it up from foruming etc.

It has required a few changes and probably hasn't been the 'cheap' option, although that would have been retiring him! CP/oberon on here have been very helpful before and after.

As we have done it at home and Frank is a tubby when not in work we have bought lots more eleccy fencing to set up a track system, had foraged analysed for minerals and supplement appropriately and Frank has a pair of hoof boots for in front as his soles are very flat/his growth isn't quick enough to keep up with the work so far.

He had one cortisone injection in January and was soundish (not quite 100%) and brought slowly back into work but was lame again 7 weeks down the line. At that point he had another injection (to give him a head start) and we took shoes off. Vet has had success with cases with navi an barefoot but not djd so is waiting to see how we get on.
 
Our WB has some degree of DJD in his coffin joints and has had two lots os steroid and hyluronic acid injections since december 2012,a course of adequan and natural balance shoes.Vet gave me danilon but i am loath to use it as he had been 2/10 lame at the worst,and is now ok.I need to guage how sound he is and i really do not want bute or danilon masking any possible underlying lameness.I use cortaflex and have started using global herbs move free plus and strong bone.I want to see if the herbal route works.He has been sound but he popped a splint on the inside of his nearside cannon bone recently which made him sore.Our instructor felt the splint popped as his nearside foot is altering in alignment.I am sure Oberon and Cptrays would have an opinion on this which i would love to see as they are so knowlegable.
 
rolo isnt using the same farrier as before - although somebody has suggested to me to try a remedial farrier from newmarket?
i am getting so bombarded with all different opinions
bute
injections
shoes
vet again
retirement - i just dont know what to do
put him down (not an option for me right now)

its so frustrating - i have had him for 5 years and we have just had problem after problem - costing so much money.

i wish i could just find the solution for him!

i am wondering if that maybe he just needs retiring - as in a field theres no signs of lameness as i guess he just avoids the tight circles
its so hard he means so much to me and i am just itching to have some lessons and do some dressage which i feel is so selfish of me!
 
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