Coffin joint Arthritis and fetlock arthritis

MissyG

MissyG

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Hi Everyone

My horse had a CT scan yesterday and I was told she had coffin joint and fetlock joint arthritis, I want to give her the best chance so are there any supplements that have helped/barefoot/remedial shoes?
My vet wants to nerve block to see which one is causing her pain or it is both, and go down the route of injections now this is not an insurance claim as she is classed as veteran so it is accident only, I am asking is other peoples experiences and how long can i expect the injections to last best and worse case.

TIA
 
Steroid jabs made my horse appear sound for a couple of months. Once they wore off he became catastrophically lame. Would never steroid jab again. He was field kept & my personal theory is that once he was comfortable he moved alot more (evidenced by the skid marks in the field 🙄) & that expedited the wear of his joints 🤷‍♀️
 
Mine has had an arthramid injection into the fetlock joint following an arthritis diagnosis by MRI. He was never very lame, and it was intermittent so it's hard to assess whether it's worked or not until his work load is increased - it was about a month ago and he's currently just walking. He's been barefoot most of his life anyway so I haven't changed that. The vet believes that this will last 1-2 years, quite a lot longer than steroid injections.
 
thanks for your replies the vet has said that bar shoes should help however I have been researching regarding supplements and there is a few out there that say they work and at the moment it is either feed-mark best flex or vetrofen but with the vetrofen it says dont use with bute so I am undecided at the moment has anyone tried the magnetic boots?
 
Once they have arthritis then supplements do very little except possibly prevent further issues elsewhere...maybe, not fur sure. We've just been through this with my mare who has newly diagnosed hock OA. She's had Arthramid injections last month.

Our physio says really little point in using a joint supplement now for the hocks because it won't undo the damage, she said save my money for future arthramid injections.

But I have done my own research and there is some positive clinical research out there for joint supplements in general, specifically science supplements flexibility professional (it's very expensive). Feedmark best flex has lots of literature for the ingredients alone, not the actual formulation. So it may be useful...I have just started her on Rowen Barbary Supple Plus because it contains the recommended daily amounts of MSM, Glucosamine and Boswellia and Green lipped mussel...which have scientific studies to support their benefits. https://rowenbarbary.co.uk/supple-plus-advanced-support-html.html

I did use the science supplements joint supplement for a month but it made little difference to my girl, they say if you see no benefit after 2-3 weeks then its not likely to help so I stopped. I'm now trying the Rowen Barbary one as it is a lot cheaper and I figured it won't hurt...if no better I will also discontinue.

But ultimately you are best to consider shoeing, workload, medicating and other management above supplements.
 
Bobthecob15 said:
Once they have arthritis then supplements do very little except possibly prevent further issues elsewhere...maybe, not fur sure. We've just been through this with my mare who has newly diagnosed hock OA. She's had Arthramid injections last month.

Our physio says really little point in using a joint supplement now for the hocks because it won't undo the damage, she said save my money for future arthramid injections.

But I have done my own research and there is some positive clinical research out there for joint supplements in general, specifically science supplements flexibility professional (it's very expensive). Feedmark best flex has lots of literature for the ingredients alone, not the actual formulation. So it may be useful...I have just started her on Rowen Barbary Supple Plus because it contains the recommended daily amounts of MSM, Glucosamine and Boswellia and Green lipped mussel...which have scientific studies to support their benefits. https://rowenbarbary.co.uk/supple-plus-advanced-support-html.html

I did use the science supplements joint supplement for a month but it made little difference to my girl, they say if you see no benefit after 2-3 weeks then its not likely to help so I stopped. I'm now trying the Rowen Barbary one as it is a lot cheaper and I figured it won't hurt...if no better I will also discontinue.

But ultimately you are best to consider shoeing, workload, medicating and other management above supplements.
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She is booked for the injections in the fetlock next week and bar shoes two days before that I realise that nothing will reverse the damage already there but if it keeps her more comfortable then I am willing to try it, it broke my heart to see her this lame so if I find something that helps then she can have it however I do have a limit. I am hoping that we can be a happy hacker, I am realistic that even though I would love to jump her again this is probably just a dream and drag hunting wont be on the bucket list but a beach ride I am hoping that this will be possible as this is all depending on the response to treatment.
 
MissyG said:
She is booked for the injections in the fetlock next week and bar shoes two days before that I realise that nothing will reverse the damage already there but if it keeps her more comfortable then I am willing to try it, it broke my heart to see her this lame so if I find something that helps then she can have it however I do have a limit. I am hoping that we can be a happy hacker, I am realistic that even though I would love to jump her again this is probably just a dream and drag hunting wont be on the bucket list but a beach ride I am hoping that this will be possible as this is all depending on the response to treatment.
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fingers crossed for her, its early days for our injections as arthramid takes 1-2 months but she seems better already. she was never lame as such really other than on flexion tests, just quite stiff. So I am hopeful.

I'll let you know how we get on with the Supple Plus as its a lot less expensive than some of the others and does seem to include key ingredients.
 
Bobthecob15 said:
fingers crossed for her, its early days for our injections as arthramid takes 1-2 months but she seems better already. she was never lame as such really other than on flexion tests, just quite stiff. So I am hopeful.

I'll let you know how we get on with the Supple Plus as its a lot less expensive than some of the others and does seem to include key ingredients.
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Thank you I am tempted to just go with this supple plus and start it when she has had her injections etc when she was at the RVC they did the assessments again and I was proud that she only had a little buck and canter on the soft surface however that little bit made her so lame on the hard surface they said they would not trot her as she looked a lot worse, so glad I got the scan and we have a diagnosis despite the cost.

I have my fingers crossed for you and your mare xx
 
Good luck with yours too!

I've read a lot around the subject and generally the science suggests if you are not seeing any changes after 2-3 weeks on a joint supplement it probably isn't going to help. So I think keep that in mind.
 
Arthramid is a game changer. It takes longer to work, but it honestly made such a huge difference over steroids with my horse. Hopefully it’ll last at least a year and it is fairly expensive, however you could probably end up spending that same amount on supplements and powders in the same time, and you don’t necessarily know for sure that the supplements will do anything miraculous.
 
Update
She had no shoes for a week and looked better each day and looked soundish in walk and her feet did not crumble so gave me hope that if I went the barefoot route it might be ok.

Bar shoes are on and she is lame however that is to be expected due to the shoes going on.

We have injected the coffin joint first as my vet has gone back over the CT Scan and has noted that she does have navicular changes as well which does not surprise me as she is a very active horse :cool:

Supplement wise I have gone for Equine Premierflex HA and if it does not make a difference it is not the end of the world as did not cost the earth we got 3 months worth so we will know if it has made a difference or not.

We have had 24 hours in the box post injections and now the next 3 days will be controlled exercise walking in hand :p and when I walked her out this morning OMG she bounced out so full of herself that this should be very interesting....
she is also on bute so obviously not feeling it.

WISH ME LUCK hoping to survive the in-hand walking and then the bringing the beast back into gentle work hahaha she definitely does not know the meaning of gentle or steady picture of beast below (arena eventing) kakie.jpg
 
Hi Everyone update time

So we got back into work and hacking out I was able to resume my lessons about 3 weeks after the injections doing walk and trot only and we were out hacking once or twice a week but it was walk and a small trot we introduced canter for a short burst on week 5 and continued on the twice a week hacking with a small amount of schooling on the soft with no small circles or turns and we were bobbing along nicely a couple of times we had a slight off moment that when rested for a couple of days and just had turnout was fine then we hacked and she felt fine so we had a longer canter than normal and she was fine till the next morning when she came out lame which did not go in two days of rest and called the vet for apt so had to wait a week but was giving her bute to help with the pain which I had to stop on Tuesday (last one was Monday evening) so the effects had come out of the system for the apt today.

I am heartbroken however I am hoping this may be another issue, but not convinced I am hoping I can get her field sound but I am not hopeful at this point with no insurance and a money limit I have to be realistic, Especially as she is not tolerant of being out in the field for more than 6 hours or when it is cold/windy or raining she is a total idiot that I cant help but love, I have never had a normal horse it has always had unique features and quirks that keep me engaged.
:-(
 
MissyG said:
thanks for your replies the vet has said that bar shoes should help however I have been researching regarding supplements and there is a few out there that say they work and at the moment it is either feed-mark best flex or vetrofen but with the vetrofen it says dont use with bute so I am undecided at the moment has anyone tried the magnetic boots?
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Harpagyl supplement is often more effective than Vetrofen, and generally more palatable. Got a tub of Vetrofen still taking up space on a shelf.
Yes, combination of 24/7 EquStreamz bands (for which the ‘science’ is unclear, so perhaps buy second hand from eBay until confident there is any positive benefit for YOUR pony??), keep moving the bands above fetlocks / below fetlocks, and regularly clean;
and Harpagyl, twice daily to begin with, reduced once horse improved immeasurably.
Harpagyl is banned in competition, presumably recognised as one of the very few supplements which actually does something helpful....good luck!
 
So sorry, my boy was diagnosed 10 years ago when he was a 7yo with navicular and coffin joint arthritis. We had steroid injections and remedial shoeing but he never came sound with ridden work. I still have him now as a companion (all 16.2 hands of him 🤣) as he’s comfortable retired. best of luck x
 
My horse would come sound off of steriod injections

Last lot of injections didn't help so we xrayed to find the coffin joint had now collapsed

As per my other thread the only option remaining was to de nerve which wasn't even open for discussion
 
Not posted in forever but occassionally pop in to read and saw this. It is so like one of mine. She has high and low ringbone and despite arthramid and steroids 5 mths later she's really struggling with the ground and too sore to ride. She also has the premierflex HA and boswellia and right now is on a daily danilon to try to keep her comfortable. Just wondered where you're at with your horse now?
 
Hi Everyone
Just thought I would give you all an update regarding Katie and the last vet visit, we had the visit and he said that she was lame on one leg not both so we injected the lame fetlock we did the box rest and controlled walking and then turn out in small paddock we was sound for 13 days and then went lame within the 13 days we was on 1 sachet of danilon for 7 days twice a day then went down to 1 which she was sound on as she was in the field with the hard ground thought she may have aggravated it so box rest again with 2 danilon until my Harpagyl arrived and then switched to this twice daily has been on this for 5 days and went in the field yesterday.
I spoke to my vet 5 days ago who said if she does not come sound at best I will have a walk hack on 2 x danilon daily and blood test every 6 months but my horse does not recognise she should be normal so walk hack hahaha fat chance of this she is spice at all times and not a plod despite being 18 she hates it when she is not ridden she is the example of growing old disgracefully and even as she is she would still gallop and jump even if it crippled her, so retirement is going to be an issue.....
My horse is on a joint supplement, Harpagyl and a calmer and EquStreamz bands 24/7 so the million dollar question is do I just take the shoes off and see how she goes for the time being.....
Any advise welcome as steroids lasted 8 weeks in the coffin joint and 13 days in the fetlock and vet said that to go down the Arthramid route would be around £1700 for the 3 joints which is not a option TBH and especially as they cant even give me a 50/50 chance it will work.
TIA
 
What are you getting out of shoes right now (tho with the caveat that hard summer ground isn’t ideal for transitions, I managed to have a soggy summer)

My own was 19 when he went lame (dx coffin joint djd by nerve block, nothing very exciting on X-ray, mri wasn’t going to change my management plan. Had 2 cycles in bar shoes lost dx)

I figured if he was retiring he was having shoes off anyway so might as well try a proper transition and see what we had. It required a lot of patience to get to that but essentially he was then sound for the next 10 years and still hunting at 24. His retirement at 26 was down to hind end annular ligament issues front feet still sound until the end
 
Been following this as I have a feeling mine might well need coffin joints medicating, he has on/off lameness, sore on a circle, better on a softer surface and footer on hard ground. Foot pointing at times, no signs of laminitis the last twice he was looked at by a vet and last week with the farrier. His foot was blocked positive back in March.

A few people alluded to Coffin joint arthritis at the time. I'm going to ask the head vet if he can re visit his xrays, unfortunately only one xray side on was taken at a funny angle, so not sure whether it's this or soft tissue injury in the foot.

He's very happy on 1.5 bute a day and 20 paracetamol (down from 30) but I'm not sure how long I'm prepared to keep going with this.

I was thinking about Arthramid but the cost is silly and I seem to remember my last horse had to stop in 48hrs to prevent him running around so not sure but then longer on steroid.

Have you ruled out soft tissue injury OP? I'm not going down the MRI route myself, have decided if the coffin joint medication and the shoes going back on in 4 weeks don't work I will have to keep on bute or pts. I don't mind bute long term but not paracetamol.

I personally wouldn't rush to take shoes off OP. The ground has been like concrete.
 
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Re the ground that might well have been summer and wet ground comes with its own issues as you know B given the number of abscesses you have had. There’s rarely a perfect time to do it.

Boots and pads are a thing even for 24 hour wear, as with most hoofy issues you have to be consistent/diligent about care while using them.

How is Larry’s thrush doing?
 
No experience with fetlocks but the best thing i ever did for my horse with coffin joint changes and navicular syndrome is take the shoes off and rehab with boots pads etc.

My horse has no trouble galloping on hard ground in the summer barefoot, but would go lame after a hoon around on hard ground when shod.
 
It’s interesting as speaking to other horse people recently they thought I’d be more worried about the hard ground being unshod, and I was like nope much prefer a good barefoot much suspension and cushioning internally
 
MissyG said:
thanks for your replies the vet has said that bar shoes should help however I have been researching regarding supplements and there is a few out there that say they work and at the moment it is either feed-mark best flex or vetrofen but with the vetrofen it says dont use with bute so I am undecided at the moment has anyone tried the magnetic boots?
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We put remedial shoes on my girl n she was instantly crippled. Could barely stand up. Took her shoes off n put her on progressive earth pro hoof plus. She remained field sound for 5 years and had a very happy retirement
 
Update on Katie
Spoken to the vet and I asked if I could take off her shoes and try and transition her being out longer than 5-6 hours he said that it was not a terrible idea as long as she is kept comfortable with pain killers to see if she comes field sound he said to have another look at her at the start of winter.
 
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