Cold backed?! Symptoms, WWYD + Remedies?

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Elvis

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Before anyone shoots me down, I am working with my vet and physio.

Ever since Elvis has been back in work (October) he's shown signs of being cold backed. Nothing horrific, sometimes he steps away when you go to put the saddle on, he wiggles about when you try to mount, and 'puts his back up' once you are one for about one lap of the arena. In the recent very cold weather he's also swished his tail whilst his back has been up, he then settles and shows no further signs.

He's has the physio who found nothing major, the vet who's seen him trotted up, lunged, ridden numerous times and can't see anything obvious apart from a little stickiness under saddle. He's had thermal imaging which again showed nothing major. He's been on a bute trial for 10 days which made no difference. The vet has now asked for me to do 2 weeks intensive schooling to see if he gets worse/better. He's then said depending on what I think I can then have x-rays done or just keep working with him.

The vet seems to think that elvis is trying it on a bit, which in all honesty wouldn't be totally out of character as he learns evasions incredibly quickly. For example when I ride him on my own he can pretty much convince me he's lame and I'm an awful owner but when I have a lesson with an instructor who makes me work him properly he's a dream.

So the question is can a horse be cold backed without a reason?

WWYD regarding X-rays as I have to decide soon, it's hard because aside from the cold backed symptoms his schooling is coming along nicely.

And finally what can be done to help horses who are cold backed? I try to keep his rug on whilst tacking up and will consider warming up in an exercise sheet once I've decided whether he'll be sensible enough for one! What about equilibrium massage pad?

Toblerone for anyone who got this far.
 
I take it the saddle fits? You didn't mention a saddler but with all the rest of the diagnostics I guess its a given?
 
I would xray his back (mine was missed by the physio) and test his kidney function.

Mine responded really well to poultry lights off eBay, 20 quid each.
 
Equissage can definatly help sometimes with this type of horse as can magnetic rugs .
I have ever used the equilibrium massage pad but should think it might help some Horses .
One back senestive horse I have was cured with a change of back pad .
He likes a cotton quilted saddle cloth and a one cm memory foam pad on top once we discovered that he was a different horse .
If the pads been washed and is not dry and I use something else he knows straight away , so it might be worth trying different things under the saddle .
Our memory foam loving horse hates sheepskin it completely freaks him out .

I do think horses are cold backed for a reason but perhaps sometimes the reason is a memory.
If you have a good physio on the job if you are dealing with something nasty they should feel it developing if you keep doing regular checks .
Both my vet and my physio are fans of working horses in these situations.
If I where you I probally would do two to three weeks of hard work then reassess with the vet and physio .
 
Yes sorry, saddle fits. And was checked again 6 weeks after purchase to make sure it had bedded down correctly. I also ride with a pro lite pad too as an extra precaution. (Again checked this wouldn't compromise fit) However I haven't had a saddle fitter out recently so will get that booked too. (I have everything checked at least every 2 months, teeth, back, saddle, bloods-(liver issues)etc)

Edited to add- kidney function is fine, the last 3 blood tests have all come back normal except low red and white blood cell count and a higher than normal amount of protein in blood, both are just within or just out of normal ranges and the vets have concluded this is just normal for him.
 
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Kidneys will not show on a standard blood test and aren't usually tested for because kidney failure in horses is rare. My horse that had it was cold backed. Have they tested specifically for kidneys but not bothered with a back xray?
 
The chesnut git was cold backed and I had him for 24 years, he never grew out of it. I had him seen by the vet, saddler and chiropractor, none of whom could find a reason (the chiropractor, Mark Windsor, said he was the soundest horse he had seen in a year!).

I had to develop strategies to deal it. This included having the girth very loose and tightening it up one hole at a time whilst walking him around, then mounting him from a block and sitting very lightly and quietly whilst walking him around until he relaxed (in a couple of minutes). If he had any time off, I would have to mini restart him and lunge him to get him used to the saddle again. As long as I managed him this way, he was ok.

I reckon that I would get bronked off once a year, which was acceptable (I was younger and braver then!).

Using a massage pad sounds like a good idea.
 
We make a point of tacking up ours (cold backed since we got him 12 years ago) 10 minutes or more before he's going to be ridden - helps a lot. We also travel him to local events (within a half-hours drive) with his saddle on.
 
Goldenstar- we've tried both with and without the prolite, and have also tried every combination of numnah, saddle cloth, pad etc and none seem to make a difference except the thick pad made me feel very perched on top so haven't tried that recently.

Cptrayes- I could be mistaken but I think they checked kidney function when he was initially ill with his liver problems, but I could be wrong- I'll double check with my vets. And regarding the back X-Ray my vet is just suggesting it as the next step- partly because I won't give up but also we've tried everything else, I think if it was up to him he'd just say keep schooling and assess as I go along.

Tiddlypom- what's odd is he is fine with the girth and when the saddle is on. He isn't happy with me getting on and then for the first minute but only hunches and in the very cold he tail swishes too. But don't think we are anywhere near bucking or broncing (famous last words)
So it's not as if he needs much managing, and time off doesn't seem to make a difference.
But will definitely look into an equlibrium or equissage.

Ponydi- I'll try putting on his saddle first and doing the rest after as usually the saddle is put on last, but then I chuck a rug on top whilst I get my stuff on, so he's stands with the saddle on for about 5 mins before he's ridden.

Turks- Of course you can! The thing is Elvis means the world to me and any possibility that he might be in pain has to be investigated properly.
 
I use poultry lights, they kept mine going all last winter until the kissing spines got so bad I had him operated on 12 weeks ago and he's now a different horse. Lights are 20 quid each off eBay.
 
I've got a ks case, but shows it's self in a cold back way.

Number 1 thing which is of vital importance is keeping everything warm! We've had a sheet on for almost a month now, and very soon we will start wearing 2 when ridden...fleece and waterproof. These never come off when ridden apart from a dressage test, then go straight back on. I treat my horse like f1 car wheels.......always toasty warm!

Number 2 is put the saddle on first! Before you do anything else......gives everything time to warm up! Saddle also comes off last to help a gradual blood flow back to the back!

Number 3.... Walk before on, doing girth up gradually till it's safe enough that you can get on without it slipping. On really cold days I will lunge to get horse warm and soft over back.

Number 4 get walking forwards stretching down over back.

Number 5 get on from a block that is high enough that you do not put any strain on his back.... I use one of those 3 step plastic ones...... Expensive but my horses back is worth it!

These are all just things I do to limit my horse feeling the need to bronc when I put my foot in the stirrup...... I still sometime get a feeling that he may buck, and he has done before......but I know how to mange it and limit what causes him to buck!
 
Cptrayes: thank you, I'll look into those now. I think I'll get him X-rayed anyway just to rule out KS and other possibilities.

TandD: thank you, I'll try harder to keep him warm. Just need to man up and put an exercise sheet on and hope he keeps a cool head. It's a potentially flappy and scrunchy one. Do you not find your horse then overheats once he's warmed up in an exercise sheet? My boy gets quite warm when worked properly? My boy isn't clipped.
 
Elvis said:
Cptrayes: thank you, I'll look into those now. I think I'll get him X-rayed anyway just to rule out KS and other possibilities.

TandD: thank you, I'll try harder to keep him warm. Just need to man up and put an exercise sheet on and hope he keeps a cool head. It's a potentially flappy and scrunchy one. Do you not find your horse then overheats once he's warmed up in an exercise sheet? My boy gets quite warm when worked properly? My boy isn't clipped.
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I've never known a horse have a moment over a sheet.... If your horses wears a rug it will be quite use to the noise. I don't find they flap that much or rustle either! BUT you must not dwell on it either! Just treat it as something you use every day. Your issue will become the horses issue! No my horse doesn't over heat or sweat on the quarters, however he is very fit (easily does 1 hours schooling and more) and oddly runs at a lower than normal temperature of 36 oC...... Personally I'd prefer an over warm horse to a cold one when working!

I made the mistake last year of hunter clipping, horse got to cold over quarters and became unrideable! This year he's had a blanket clip but I have cut out the places where the saddle flaps sit, so this area will dry quicker when sweaty!
 
Mine has this since I have owned him Had the usual checks etc but he would just bronc when I asked him to walk away from mounting block with a light seat. I tighten girth slowly & always make sure saddle has been on for at least 10mins prior to mounting. Being food oriented I would throw a bit of carrot a few feet in front of him when I first got on...he walks forward for carrot & forgets the cold backed reaction. Then another one & he walks off ok. After sometime off he is more reactive but after regular work he may only need one bit or just walks on without it. Maybe strange to.some but when they see what he can do without it they understand. He walks out
well & enjoys going out & about on his own. If I have to get off for the odd awful gate I can get on him again using fence/gate with no cold backed issues.
 
Forgot to mention that a thermocell exercise sheet seems to as some sort of comfort blanket even though mine is fixed, and no way will he be clipped thos winter! Maybe next, we'll see.
 
TandD: you're right, it's probably all in my head. Will just put it on next time I ride him. Elvis is relatively for, but does get a little sweating after about 45 mins intensive schooling, I'll just see how he fairs. And I did think if it ever came to clipping him the most I'd do would be a blanket clip.

Ebenezer_Scrooge: what a funny horse, but distraction can be a brilliant thing with horses, and if it worked for you, whose to judge. It's a relatively cheap and easy way of alleviating a problem!

Cptrayes: I'll look at that exercise sheet, the one I've got is just a weatherbeeta one designed to be used in the rain so I'm not sure how warm it'll be, worth a try though. And it's a shame as elvis was blanket clipped last winter and was fine, but everyone is being hesitant this year. But to be fair he doesn't sweat up loads when ridden and only has a fine TB coat.
 
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Have you tried lungeing him before you get on? A few minutes in walk and trot each way with no side reins so that he can stretch down. I would do this with mine and if I thought he had 'that' glint in his eye I would then put the stirrups down part way so that they were flapping against his sides in trot.
 
Would recommend you try a different saddle fitter and really rule out the saddle for once and all. One of our horses was very much like this after a winter off but would settle after ten mins or so even in a lesson. We had the same saddle fitter out several times and minor adjustments were made but we were told that we'd be unlikely to find anything to fit better. Eventually got fed up and called another fitter out and said we wanted a new saddle. Twenty minutes later we had a totally different horse and a second hand saddle. My point is, the first saddle looked as though it fit, it satisfied all the points of saddle fitting but something was wrong that only the horse could tell!
 
A friend uses wheat bags in her cold backed tb in the winter, puts them on under the rug 5mins before tacking up, then on goes saddle with loose girth while other bits get done then tighten a hole at a time.
Works for them.
 
Lots of good advice already. I'm one that thinks cold backed usually has a reason, could be actual pain/discomfort or the memory of it so it's good that you're working with vet physio and saddle fitter to rule out any health issues.

For mine, I use an equilibrium massage pad with the saddle cloth underneath or in between that and the rug, so when I take the pad off the cloth is warm and already in place. Careful with putting the saddle on, do up the girth slowly, distraction at this point works a treat. Walk her around before I get on, get on from somewhere high up, still need someone on the ground but that's cos I haven't done enough ground work. Ideally lunge before if I have time, or have her lunged earlier in the day (always goes better) and a long low warm up.

If I'm travelling, put the pad on for travelling and tack up there. Still working out our routine for when I'm away from the yard, haven't really got that one sorted yet as haven't done that much off yard.
 
Mine does this sort of thing. Worse after a short break than a long one! He is much better if turned in small circles before I get on, use a block to get on from and also use a polypad style numnah from Premier Equine. It's very unnerving for me as I have confidence issues. Find he is also better if I can bare to leave reins really long first few strides! That takes a fair bit of trust!
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere - but have you tried a different make of saddle on the horse to see if that makes any difference?
 
I don't know about reasonings behind a cold back, I guess it depends on the individual horse. My grey was very cold backed when I first got him as a 5yo, he would hump his back when I got on and on the odd occasion he did explode into a broncing fit until I came off... after a year, I put him on NAF Superflex one winter and gave him his usual 3 month break (he'd had time off the winter prior as well and that didn't help). He came back into work no longer cold backed. Don't ask me how or why though! So may be worth a try? But he was a very skinny horse when he was young, really narrow type so he didnt have much muscle etc.which I dont think helps. I always rode him in a sheepskin saddlecloth though and put the saddle on as soon as possible while I finished off grooming so he heated the saddlecloth up a bit (and kept his quarters warm). Lungeing prior to riding never helped him.
 
Amymay: He's had 3 different saddles all of which fitted according to various saddlers, but only the last (K2 jump) really seemed to have both me and him happy, that was before his break (pastern injury) and then when we bought him back in work we have continued to use the K2 as we know he went well in it before and just had it checked again prior to bringing him back in work to make sure it still fitted, which according to the saddler it did. But will be getting a different saddler out again just to rule out the saddle causing discomfort. Physio is booked for next week, and I'll be speaking to vet on Monday and then I'll get the saddler out hopefully towards the end of next week.

I tried putting on the saddle first today and then popping a rug on top whilst I groomed the rest of him, booted him up and bridled him. It seemed to help, he was quieter to get on and his back didn't seem to be 'up' as much.

Will probably get the X-rays done anyway as a precaution and might see if I can pick up an equilibrium pad to use, will borrow a friends first though.

On another note today and yesterday's lesson have been incredible, yesterday he produced some of his best flat work, we had some lovely leg yielding, we had started extension work and he was just carrying himself beautifully. And today we did canter poles which he really enjoyed and was working through them beautifully by the end, really using his hind end.
 
Elvis said:
Amymay: He's had 3 different saddles all of which fitted according to various saddlers, but only the last (K2 jump) really seemed to have both me and him happy, that was before his break (pastern injury) and then when we bought him back in work we have continued to use the K2 as we know he went well in it before and just had it checked again prior to bringing him back in work to make sure it still fitted, which according to the saddler it did. But will be getting a different saddler out again just to rule out the saddle causing discomfort. Physio is booked for next week, and I'll be speaking to vet on Monday and then I'll get the saddler out hopefully towards the end of next week.

I tried putting on the saddle first today and then popping a rug on top whilst I groomed the rest of him, booted him up and bridled him. It seemed to help, he was quieter to get on and his back didn't seem to be 'up' as much.

Will probably get the X-rays done anyway as a precaution and might see if I can pick up an equilibrium pad to use, will borrow a friends first though.

On another note today and yesterday's lesson have been incredible, yesterday he produced some of his best flat work, we had some lovely leg yielding, we had started extension work and he was just carrying himself beautifully. And today we did canter poles which he really enjoyed and was working through them beautifully by the end, really using his hind end.
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Hope these tips help and glad there is some improvement already. I'd still go ahead with xrays tbh to rule out pain, horses can still produce good work even with issues as they compensate in different ways and different levels of tolerance.
 
Another thing to rule out is digestive discomfort or ulcers.

Mine used to show signs of being cold backed and was very 'girthy', but within 24 hrs of being on a gastric supplement all those behaviours disappeared.
 
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