COLD HARD FACTS needed please

[Benjamin]

My sister is still considering breeding from her, far from sparkling specimen, staffy.
I feel awful to admit this, but 99% reason is money.

Please can you furnish me with some cold hard facts about breeding? Costs etc, likeyhood of problems, and also how many of these poor dogs are being destroyed due to people like her?

I hate speaking of my sister like this but I am so frustrated it is untrue. I will fall out with her about this.

Anything to help me deter her, please!!

Anyone friends with me on FB? Maybe you could post some rescue links on my wall....

 

[HelsB]

Tell her to go on Battersea's website to see where most of her pups will probably end up!

 

[YasandCrystal]

Oh please what is wrong with her - the rescue homes are brimming over with poor unwanted staffies!! We are in a dreadful recession does she not read the newspapers or watch the news?? Animals are the first thing people dump as an 'unnecessary' expense.

Horses and ponies are being given away, how does she expect to sell puppies for a profit??
Tell her to get a 2nd parttime job to get extra money, not add to the animal homing problems.

 

[JosieB]

Get her to look at Rochdale dog pound, all the staffs on death row.
I see so many young people walking their new staff pups around the park when I take my dogs out, you see them for a while then nothing. Few months later you see them walking a new pup. When I see these lovely pups now, all friendly, waggly tails, breaks my heart to think of the fact they will be discarded in afew months and passed on to the next home. Worse still some cower when you go to stroke them, obviously the scrote has whacked it afew times.
Her bitch can suffer all sorts of problems and a difficult birth, pups get ill, she will have the expense of caring for them, have to sort out room for them, imagine 6 little pups all running around, the mess, finding homes..
Tell her to clear her wardrobe out and put her clothes on ebay, much easier and nicer way to make money. Puppies should not be bred to boost her bank account.

 

[TP123]

Tell her to go on Battersea's website to see where most of her pups will probably end up!

The lucky ones end up on the website, hundreds don't even make it this far. The poor little souls have been to damaged by the scum who do so wrong by this wonderful breed.

I really shouldn't even get started on this..... i could go on for days.

Just google staffie rescue there are a million links to sites where kind people are doing their best against the avalanche of ignorance that surrounds these poor dogs.

 

[littlemisslauren]

I had a friend try to convince me to breed from my bitch recently, not because she is a good example of the breed... just for money.

Cayla should be on at some point (she can't keep away) and she may be able to give you some scary statistics.

People wont pay silly money for a staff pup, they are too many in rescue centres and advertised for free. She simply wont make money and will end up with a litter of pups to feed as well as her bitch.

 

[Bethie]

99% of the dogs coming into rescue locally are staffies/staffy crosses. A quick search on the Dogs Trust website (just to take one charity at random) shows they have 79 staffies in for rehoming. The breed is in crisis. Not enough people want them and the people I know involved in rescue find it incredibly hard to get homes for them. The local dog pound (where the strays go for their 7 days) is at breaking point, the staff there do their hardest to care for and rehome these dogs and have a no destruction policy, but what do they do when they can't move the current dogs on into new homes or rescue spaces (as there are very few spaces for them), and there are another 15 dogs arriving that day?

Is your sister able and willing to take responsibility for every single one of the puppies produced from the day they are born to the day they die, ie have a return policy, if not the chances are some of her puppies, or some of her puppies puppies, will be born only to have a poor life and early death.

If you can talk her round (and taking her to talk to a local rescue/dog pound might be the thing to do it), she might be eligible for a free neutering voucher - I think Dogs Trust are currently offering some vouchers for status dogs (which is what these now are, unfortunately) in my area at least.

 

[Red30563]

I see you are in Essex, Benjamin. I don't know where your sister is but she could take a look at the RSPCA Danaher animal home website. Out of 35 dogs in there, 23 are staffies or staffie types, all of them youngsters. Plus there is a litter of staffie puppies.

I do hope she reads this thread and sees sense!

 

[TP123]

Just a Staffy Cross.

Today is just another day - to me they're all the same
I have the worst of genes you see, I bear the "Staffy" shame.
The shame is in our numbers, there's thousands with no home.
Thousands just like me you'll find, in kennels all alone.
My mum was "just a Staffy", my father - well who knows?
Mum, too, became unwanted, as the last puppy goes.
And then begins the process, of money-making deals
A life of "moving on" unfolds, who cares how the Staffy feels?
If you have the cash to hand, the Staffy pup is yours

But that pup is getting bigger now, just look at those big paws.
You brought me for your image, thought I'd make you look more tough
But you'll find my boisterous nature has already got too much.
If you had thought to train me, with kindness and with praise
You would have had a faithful friend to share your darkest days.
I would lay down my life for you, but you simply cannot see
You make sure you get your money back on what you paid for me.

And on it goes, until one day, I'm no longer worth a dime
The retail on an adult staff - not worth the waste of time.
So what happens to a Staffy now? Do you really want to know?
Do you care what will become of us, when we leave our final home?
Have you ever thought to wonder, "Where is that Staffy now?"
The "Staffy" has another name; he's become a "stray" somehow.
Me, I was put into a car and driven far away

The door held open, I jumped out, I thought to run and play.
It was with joy and happy heart I turned to look for you
You drove away with all my trust and a piece of my heart too.
I wondered round for many days before I was brought here.
Now I wait with heavy heart, trepidation and with fear.
Seven days is all I have you see, seven days for you to claim
The little dog that you threw out, for which you have no shame.
This is my last goodbye now my seven days are up
If only more thought had gone into the future of that pup
As the needle empties to my veins I lay down with one last sigh
I'm sorry I was born a Staffy, because it means that I must die.



- by Trudie James, Doris Banham Dog Rescue


Just about sums it up.....

 

[Alec Swan]

A couple of years ago, I bred a litter of working collie pups, and the plan was that I would retain one for work. Both parents were first class, and as sane as a collie can be!!

The bitch excelled herself, and produced 12 pups. The sire was subsequently re-named "Super Dick", but that's another story.

Some went to working homes, and some as pets. I was left with two, plus the one which I wanted to keep. I advertised for weeks, and with the exception of the odd idiot who 'phoned up and said that they'd take one for nothing, they remained unsold. Eventually, I gave away the two puppies which were to go, but to responsible friends.

The fact is, that unsold puppies, very soon become unsold adults, and beyond 12 weeks, they can become virtually unsalable.

The reality was that the retained puppy cost me £1000, what with a vet's bill, feed costs, and the staggering costs of advertising. Next time, I'll go out and buy a puppy. Breeding dogs can be a huge financial drain, and getting rich from it is highly unlikely.

Tell her to buy a lottery ticket, it's a better money making prospect!!

Alec.

Ets, TP123, just read your post. Spot on. a.

 

[MurphysMinder]

There was a programme on tv a little while ago about Battersea I think, which talked about the number of staffies they have in, and shown a vet putting them down, that might get through to her.
As to whelping costs, there is always the possibility of a caesarian being needed, several hundred pounds, plus the cost of rearing pups, mess they will make in the house, and the fact that if she is any sort of benefits (don;t know if this is the case) she could be reported if she doesn't declare the money from pups.

 

[AmyMay]

There was a programme on tv a little while ago about Battersea I think, which talked about the number of staffies they have in, and shown a vet putting them down, that might get through to her.

Yes, I was just thinking about this very programme.

They showed a handful of dogs being taken from the kennels to vet for destruction. Bright eyed, wonderful little dogs (all staffies I believe) - all destined for a 5 min drive to the needle.

The vet used to euthinase out the back, because his staff found the whole process too distressing. As did he.

http://www.hoperescue.org.uk/Stray-Dogs.html

 

[s4sugar]

Direct her to this site;-
http://www.staffords.co.uk and in particular this page - http://www.staffords.co.uk/sbtbc/breeding.htm

When she has read it all without taking any of it in she can then approach the nearest listed stud dog. When the dog's owner has stopped laughing & sent her on her way she may realise that there is no profit in breeding.

 

[MurphysMinder]

This was the tv programme, at 20 mins in it shows an unwanted staff being pts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tcfmp/Panorama_Britains_Unwanted_Pets/

 

[Cat&Mouse]

Just a Staffy Cross.

Today is just another day - to me they're all the same
I have the worst of genes you see, I bear the "Staffy" shame.
The shame is in our numbers, there's thousands with no home.
Thousands just like me you'll find, in kennels all alone.
My mum was "just a Staffy", my father - well who knows?
Mum, too, became unwanted, as the last puppy goes.
And then begins the process, of money-making deals
A life of "moving on" unfolds, who cares how the Staffy feels?
If you have the cash to hand, the Staffy pup is yours

But that pup is getting bigger now, just look at those big paws.
You brought me for your image, thought I'd make you look more tough
But you'll find my boisterous nature has already got too much.
If you had thought to train me, with kindness and with praise
You would have had a faithful friend to share your darkest days.
I would lay down my life for you, but you simply cannot see
You make sure you get your money back on what you paid for me.

And on it goes, until one day, I'm no longer worth a dime
The retail on an adult staff - not worth the waste of time.
So what happens to a Staffy now? Do you really want to know?
Do you care what will become of us, when we leave our final home?
Have you ever thought to wonder, "Where is that Staffy now?"
The "Staffy" has another name; he's become a "stray" somehow.
Me, I was put into a car and driven far away

The door held open, I jumped out, I thought to run and play.
It was with joy and happy heart I turned to look for you
You drove away with all my trust and a piece of my heart too.
I wondered round for many days before I was brought here.
Now I wait with heavy heart, trepidation and with fear.
Seven days is all I have you see, seven days for you to claim
The little dog that you threw out, for which you have no shame.
This is my last goodbye now my seven days are up
If only more thought had gone into the future of that pup
As the needle empties to my veins I lay down with one last sigh
I'm sorry I was born a Staffy, because it means that I must die.



- by Trudie James, Doris Banham Dog Rescue


Just about sums it up.....

Goes off blubbering to buy a lottery ticket hoping to win & rescue lots of staffies

 

[EAST KENT]

Me too..so sad ..and so true

 

[skint1]

Just a Staffy Cross.

Today is just another day - to me they're all the same
I have the worst of genes you see, I bear the "Staffy" shame.
The shame is in our numbers, there's thousands with no home.
Thousands just like me you'll find, in kennels all alone.
My mum was "just a Staffy", my father - well who knows?
Mum, too, became unwanted, as the last puppy goes.
And then begins the process, of money-making deals
A life of "moving on" unfolds, who cares how the Staffy feels?
If you have the cash to hand, the Staffy pup is yours

But that pup is getting bigger now, just look at those big paws.
You brought me for your image, thought I'd make you look more tough
But you'll find my boisterous nature has already got too much.
If you had thought to train me, with kindness and with praise
You would have had a faithful friend to share your darkest days.
I would lay down my life for you, but you simply cannot see
You make sure you get your money back on what you paid for me.

And on it goes, until one day, I'm no longer worth a dime
The retail on an adult staff - not worth the waste of time.
So what happens to a Staffy now? Do you really want to know?
Do you care what will become of us, when we leave our final home?
Have you ever thought to wonder, "Where is that Staffy now?"
The "Staffy" has another name; he's become a "stray" somehow.
Me, I was put into a car and driven far away

The door held open, I jumped out, I thought to run and play.
It was with joy and happy heart I turned to look for you
You drove away with all my trust and a piece of my heart too.
I wondered round for many days before I was brought here.
Now I wait with heavy heart, trepidation and with fear.
Seven days is all I have you see, seven days for you to claim
The little dog that you threw out, for which you have no shame.
This is my last goodbye now my seven days are up
If only more thought had gone into the future of that pup
As the needle empties to my veins I lay down with one last sigh
I'm sorry I was born a Staffy, because it means that I must die.



- by Trudie James, Doris Banham Dog Rescue


Just about sums it up.....

Just show her this and tell her to think again. Or appeal to her higher nature and tell her that she's unlikely to make any cash out of it

 

[mollichop]

Nothing to add to what's been said other than well done to you Benjamin for going against your sister and trying to make a difference in her dogs (and subsequent pups) life

 

[FestiveBoomBoom]

This was the tv programme, at 20 mins in it shows an unwanted staff being pts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tcfmp/Panorama_Britains_Unwanted_Pets/

Dear oh dear, what a sad state of affairs. I'm now having a good old howl

Force your sister to watch that video and if she has any shred of decency she wont be going ahead with this litter.

 

[Benjamin]

Thank you all for your input and ideas.

I have spoken to her on the phone this morning and put my point across. She has said that she will reconsider. Think it hit home when I mentioned that there is a high chance she could have problems (she is a tiny girl) and could she magic all this money for vets bills out of thin air? She couldn't when her other dog got ill, luckily he was covered on the insurance.

I hope her husband will also see sense.

There are plenty more ways for them to make more money, kinder ways!!

Thank you all again, I just hope this has really sunk in!

P x

 

[CAYLA]

Give her some figures

A C section in emergency hours (straight forward C section) £1200 to be paid on the spot. She may also have to feed the pups herself if the bitch rejects (inexperienced) hands will stand no chance with this, they will die.
If she is indeed small she will most certainly need help, bull bred pups have big heads and thus is where the problems occur, she could also lose the bitch.
Its frighteneing how people get these thought, ignorance is bliss.
Good on you Benjamin.
Ask her, "couod you stand the thought, of pups you allowed your bitch to birth, sitting rotting in a pound 12 months down the line when the cuteness wears off"? only to be pts when a home fails to materialise.

 

[Spudlet]

12 months Cayla? I just went on a sale site to get an average price, and there's a 6 month old pup for sale because 'she's too much to handle' 6 months old! And on the scrap-heap already - all set to be passed from pillar to post until she ends up dead.

Or how about 8 months old - because they 'havent got time to take her for walks'?

6 months old with 'genuine reason for sale' (I'm guessing that would be 'I am a thoughtless ****** who thinks dogs are disposable commodities, and I care more about getting a bit of cash out of this pup than I do finding it a good home')

10 months old ' just needs time spent with him'

22 weeks old - because 'my children really dont like dogs I was hoping they would of took to her' 22 weeks. WEEKS!

I could go on, and on, and on - and that's only one site But I'm giving myself an ulcer here

 

[blackcob]

"i have a beautifull sandy coulerd 11 week old staff puppy 4 sale he has all off his injections he allso comes with bed,bowles,coat,toys,etc he is litter trained we will be sad to let him go as he is a great pet but we have moved into a new home and the landlord does not alllow pets he is a bargin at £250"

...this one only managed three weeks.

 

[MurphysMinder]

As Cayla says, bull breeds can have problems whelping. Daughter is currently on placement at a PDSA hospital, they had an EBT in today for a caesarian. Apparently had problems whelping, owner took it to their own vet but said they couldn't afford a c section, so vet gave oxytocin and sent home for owner to monitor. Several hours later poor bitch ended up at PDSA, in a very rough state. They got out 6 live pups , 2 dead and bitch has been spayed (they apparently encourage this , thank heavens) but not all out of the woods yet. It was supposedly an accidental mating and the owner didn't know bitch was in whelp, yet conveniently the accident happened with another EBT.

 

[misterjinglejay]

I know its a different breed, but be aware of the health issues of breeding as well;
I wanted to breed a litter of samoyeds - we had a fantastic bitch, a really good example of the breed, and a super temprement to boot.
We searched high and low for a suitable dog and got the pair together.

She went into labour right on cue; we had everything ready and had the vet on standby.
It was a horrible October night, when Loushka suddenly seemed to be in trouble.

She was struggling, and her breathing was erratic. My OH was in London, so I had to dash next door, and get the neighbour to drive us to the vets - 2 miles away.
So, with Lou on the backseat, and the vet on the phone talking me through mouth to mouth resusitation , we dashed to the practice.

It was rush hour, and there were traffic lights. Lou wasn't breathing and I was absolutely distraught.

She died on the way to the vets.

Once in the surgery, he opened her up to try and save the 8 pups - nothing, no life in them at all.

Apparently it was Hydrops (which does occur in samoyeds) that killed Loushka.

I wonn't breed another litter - not worth the risk IMO. All manner of things can go wrong - is it really worth the possible heartache?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I doubt we'll ever breed again either, there are people doing a much better job than I could and have the money and the experience to produce the best of the best, and you know, even then it can go wrong.

My dog of a lifetime was put in whelp to a fantastic German champion dog, we crossed all the 't's and dotted all the 'i's, both health tested to the max, she was completely 0:0 clear in her hips, all the pups were booked and one for ourselves (sorry, if anyone breeds whole litters repeatedly and doesn't keep one themselves, I think you know what the motivation is...) - the night she whelped she had one big pup which got stuck and the rest suffocated inside her. That was in the late eighties and we haven't had the heart to do it again.

Meanwhile Dazza sticks Brucie on top of Bessy in the backyard, every season, back to back, and sells all the puppies for profit and doesn't give a toss where they end up...makes me ill

Oh, and maybe take a look at these.....

(Yes, I know this is an English bully!)

 

[Cinnamontoast]

http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-breeding/

Send her here to the bits about ethical breeding, fab, useful site. Some real stories about how many rescues are euthanised daily. Get her to join, she will be flamed for breeding staffies when they seem to be the biggest amount in rescues.

 

[Toffee44]

I worked in the community and saw a staff bitch who had lost a lot of hair after being seperatated from her puppies. She was great with the kids in the house. Went back two weeks later she's not there, turns out she was "rehomed" even tho the father and a pup were still there! To this day I wish I had asked if they were keeping her, I would have easily taken her home with me.

 

[hugh janus]

Forget looking at rescue homes and Battersea. You need to take a drive around Peckham and Lewisham. You will see there what and where your pups will go and the people who will own them. This is in my opinion the reason why Staffordshire bull terriers who are i believe one of the most trustworthy and friendly breeds get such a bad name. I have seen youths on the street baiting the dogs with traffic cones until they rag it and or walk around all day with it in their mouths and i have also seen one dog hanging from its mouth on a rope tied to a tree in Kender Street, New Cross, being spun around by its owner in full view of the road and traffic. These dogs are bred and owned to act as a status symbols.

 

[Luci07]

OK cold hard facts. I still stay in touch with the local Staffie Welfare who gave me my little staffie boy so do get to hear what they are facing

So - unregistered staffies... for sale locally around £60-80
Likelihood of needing a caesaren - massive as staffies heads are so big - you already have the costs
Battersea - 3000 dogs put down last year, just under 80% were staffies
Have a look and tell her to READ this site messaging and LOOK at the pictures of the staffies in bins.

http://poshpussrescue.org/thebullycrisis.aspx

Staffie welfare in the south east is struggling to rehome staffies because of the huge backlash against this breed. Dogs that would normally be moved on to homes and have no issues are staying "stuck".

Oh and when I was last at Battersea in Windsor - they had THREE staffie bitches in who were having pups. Last thing they needed - another 18 puppies.

I am on FB (pm me if you want to link up) and on various pound rescues/rescue groups so see a lot of the pound dogs needing homes (pound dogs have 7 days to find a home or be put down, no prizes for guessing which breed makes up the vast majority)

I applaud you for your courage in sticking upto you sister and really hope you can make her see sense. If she really needs someone to rap some sense into her, I am very happy to give you the contact details of Valerie Mann - staffie rescue who is at the sharp edge constantly and will really tell her as it is.