Colic and cribbing- sressing me out- any ideas please..........

charlie76

charlie76

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 March 2006
Messages
4,665
Visit site
I bought a mare in November who I knew was prone to cribbing.
In her previous home she didn't where a collar but she was doing in a lot with me so I put a collar on her. This stopped her totally.
In the first few weeks she showed very mild colickly signs but they went off ASAP.
In the past 4 weeks she has since had 3 bouts of pretty painful colic.The vet originally thought it was due to her coming into season so she was put on a hormone balancer but she has colicked again since so it can't be that, she has also colicked when not in or coming into season.
The second time she had it the vet suggested that the cribbing collar might be causing it so this has been taken off. She was alos out in the field for longer than usual so this has been changed.
Then she colicked again this morning.
So she has colicked when in season and when not in season, with a collar and without a collar, we long turn out and short turn out. I am pulling my hair out!

I have had the vet on each occasion. He has now suggested I feed her a supplement to calm her gut so she is on pink powder and thrive.

She has been blood tested for infection and worm damage.
She has been on antibiotics just in case.

The only thing I can think of that I have done differently to her previous owner is feed her dry rather than soaked hay- could this cause her colic?

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP..............................

The vet is coming back tommorow to check her gut again(via an internal) then perhaps do a stomach tap.

On all these occasions she comes out of it on her own.
She doesn't roll about but stretches out like a dog and looks at her tummy.

This moring was very odd as she was doing the pawing, stretching and looking at her tummy but still wanted to eat her breakfast.

Any ideas?
 
PM H's mum, she should be able to help you out
laugh.gif
 
I own a cribber and when I first got her for a little while she was prone to bouts of mild colic and very hard to keep condition on. I think a major reason that it's not a problem for us now is because she is happy and settled where she lives. This took Star some time and despite her getting on a bit now, I've never known her as well in herself as she is at the present yard, because I think it's the place she's felt the most comfortable. However it took her a fair while. If your horse has only been with you since Nov then maybe she isn't totally settled yet. Star has 24/7 turn out (as IME a stabled cribber will stand and do nothing but whilst it's got that door infront of them) But I don't use a collar at all, because much like yours that seemed to trigger bouts. I hope that you are able to ease the situation. H. x
 
My personal feeling is that the colic in cribbers is aggrivated by diet..I have a horse that is a lifelong cribber, however he now only does it immediately after food and Rennies help at that time. I avoid mixes and combined foods and try to feed high fibre straights with soaked oats. He is putting on condition and never colics. (I do feed pink powder all the year round)
 
Hi
My mare colics, like yours, periodically and I find high fibre hay/haylage helps a lot in prevention...perhaps especially when a cribber as they have high levels of acids in their stomachs....probiotics might help too. There is a theory that they crib to swallow saliva to neutralise the acid....
Good luck with her
S
 
There seems to be a pretty convincing cribbing/ulcers/feeding/colic connection being studied right now. The concensus seems to be that some horses crib to get relief from ulcers and that some feeds (and certainly stressors like moving) make the situation worse. I don't know what the general thoughts on ulcers are in the UK but the North American perspective changed when a study a few years ago suggested that 80% or more of race horses have/had ulcers and subsequent work suggests the incidence might be almost as high for some groups of riding horses! The common approach here is to put the horse on a course of ulcer meds rather than scope because the former is both less invasive (and therefore less stressful) and less expensive. I don't know if that's something you want to investigate but it might be worth a conversation with your vet.
 
I'm sorry I've no recommendations but you have my sympathy, not least because I'm having similar problems with my big lad at the moment. I've owned him nearly seven years & he's always cribbed in varying degrees but never colicked then suddenly he's colicked badly twice in three months & the only common factor I can spot sounds silly even to me
crazy.gif


I'll be watching this thread with a lot of interest, though he's already on a fibre only diet with ad-lib hay & daily turnout in a small herd. Like yours he doesn't roll around but lays stretched out or in a half laying half sitting position and will still eat given the chance.

ETA I've just noticed you're in Berkshire. Whereabouts? I'm on the Berks/Wilts border. Wonder if it's something in the air around here?!
 
[ QUOTE ]
& the only common factor I can spot sounds silly even to me
crazy.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity can I ask what it is?
 
One of the feed supplement companies did a study into crib biting which was connected to a vet school. The research showed that horses fed a cereal based diet were much more prone to crib. Also horses (such as TBs) which are weaned quite young and straight on to a cereal diet were prone to developing cribbing. The research then showed that if cribbers were fed a cereal free, forage based diet, which included ad lib hay and an antacid. The significance of cribbing reduced - this was significant in some horses, but not all. Please PM me if you would like to know which company it was, as I am sure they had copies of their findings.
 
OK Cruiser, but don't laugh or think I'm a total idiot!

Jim has a 3yo pony that I bought him as a companion last year. For 6 months he'd been kept with him as his only field companion & stabled next to him in internal stables where they could touch & see each other. During this time Jim showed no anxiety if I took Little Un away to groom, walk in hand etc even if he was out of sight for several hours.

In January we moved & I took them back to the yard Jim had been at before. The first day they were put out together & there was no problem. The next day they went out together in a herd of Jim's old friends & it was a disaster - Jim went into guard mode & wouldn't let anything near Little Un, the YO was scared (quite rightly!) that there'd be a bad accident & pulled everything else out of the field. The following day Jim & LU were split up, LU didn't give a damn but Jim fretted badly despite me tying LU up outside his box for a couple of hours at night (can no longer touch each other as no grids between stables) & couple of days later colicked for the first time.

After that I put them back together in a paddock on their own & very slowly & carefully we managed to get them back into a herd. However if I took LU out of the field & left Jim in or put Jim out without immediately putting LU out Jim would get stressy. Jim is, however, quite happy to leave LU in he field if he's coming in to work!

It may be coincidence but the second colic was the night I decided to leave LU out in the field at night (he's a rather plump sec D who doesn't need stabling). Jim didn't seem obviously stressed though he did stand looking out a lot but within an hour he coliced.

YO thinks I'm being ridiculous but humours me. Vet thinks it wouldn't be the sole cause but won't rule it out as a contributing factor. My instructor thinks I may well of hit on something. Make up your own mind, part of me thinks I'm being stupid but I'm not prepared to test the theory!

blush.gif
crazy.gif
blush.gif
 
I don't know, that sounds perfectly sensible to me. Unstable herd dynamics are such a HUGE potential source of stress for horses in general and some seem to have particular problems dealing with drama. And some horses - especially, in my experience, the ones who don't obviously express it in other ways - colic from stress.

There are all sorts of stories of race horses who had/have companion animals they can't live without - literally - and I know more than one show horse with such an arrangement. In situations where optimum preformance is essential people tend to be a bit more accepting and not so inclined to just assume the horse should "suck it up".

It would make sense that the horse is okay to come away and work, partly because he's occupied, partly because it his routine and he's comfortable with it, and partly because then he is still with at least one member of his herd - you.

Bit hard to know what you should do though, isn't it?
frown.gif
 
Your theory doesn't sound at all odd..I know my boy crib bites more if he is stressed..he has bonded with another horse at the yard so we turn them out together and they are stabled next to each other with internal grilles. He is significantly better with this management.
 
Well it's certainly nice to know other people don't think I'm being a tree-hugging headcase! I'm hoping to eventually get them into one of the internal barns where they can be next to each other with grills instead of solid walls. Maybe if they're together more of the time Jim will be more settled when they're apart - if it works I don't care how much people laugh at me! In the meantime I'm trying to do things with Little Un out of Jim's sight for short periods then putting them together again though at this rate LU may be broken next year rather than this year
crazy.gif


Thanks again for the support, I'm not sure you realise how much it means to me
blush.gif
!
 
it has been shown that horses who crib bite/windsuck are doing so as they have a gastric ulcer.

there are two ways to confirm if there is an ulcer:
1. gastroscope, not many practices can do it as scope very expensive to buy

2. start him on ulcer meds (gastro guard) if no more colic and she settles down then we can safely say she has an ulcer
 
Hi,

I have a similar prob with my horse, although I've had him for two years now and he is in a lot better condition now than he has been the last 2 winters and has only just started getting colic!
confused.gif
He's always mega chilled, in fact half asleep most of the time so it can't be that with him. it's so confussing, upsetting and expensive!! You have my sympathies - if no advice - sorry!
frown.gif
 
Dougie not all cribbers or windsuckers have ulcers, if only it were that simple!

I can't speak for Charlie 76 or anyone else but in my case I've discussed the possibility of ulcers with my vets & they think it's highly unlikely considering his general condition, weight, lifestyle & history. Although they have the means to scope they are reluctant to do so because of the stress it would cause him (probably everyone else involved
tongue.gif
). Ulcer meds could be tried but they are expensive & again the vets are sure they'd do no good in his case.
 
The catch with the study of the incidence of ulcers in race horses was that there was no definative correlation between loss of condition/decreased performance and incidence of ulcers. I know of at least one horse who was fat and shiny on minimal rations but cribbed like a fiend . . .and improved drastically on ulcer meds. As said, would that it was so cut and dried.

As to "calm" horses not being stressed . . . actually I've found the stress collickers to be generally on the laid back side. I had one horse who showed no evidence of upset - ever - but collicked regularly when anything upsetting happened, particularly when he went to horse shows. Interestingly he came to me because huge holes in his training came up to bite him in the metaphorical ass in the ring. We fixed his performance issues and he went on to be colic free, even in his far more pressured later career, which involved showing all over North America.
 
[ QUOTE ]
As to "calm" horses not being stressed . . . actually I've found the stress collickers to be generally on the laid back side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh tell me about it! WHY is it nigh on impossible for me to convince people that I know Jim is stressed by something? All I ever get is comments like "don't be silly, he isn't even calling/charging round/fence walking etc", but look at his face & reactions & it's so obvious that he's worried
crazy.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top