Collapsed heels??

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chels90

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I went to view a horse in september, I fell in love with him straight away. On the day that he was due to come his owner bless her couldn't go through with it but said she would be in touch if she changed her mind. Anyway she got in touch with me today and said she's putting him back up for sale but not until spring because his heels have collapsed and she wants to get him right before she sells him. Just wondered if someone could tell me a little bit about collapsed heels. Thanks
 
This is my grey arab and she has pretty good hooves (not perfect though ;) ). She's sound over really rocky terrain.

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This is my chestnut anglo. She's slowly recovering a better hoof shape having been badly shod in the past. She is sound on most surfaces, but not the rocky stuff yet.

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Same hoof, slowly improving as it grows down.
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ETA. Sorry for the huge photos.
 
i think collapsed heels are when they contract and 'run forwards' under the hoof, so more or less there is no hoof wall at the back of the foot, resulting in a range of problems e.g. pedal bones pointing upwards, joint problems
my farrier has told me that my boy has them, although can i see it??? no! hes in special shoes to give him support on the heels and most importantly, frog. i would like to know if this lady can solve the problem by the spring and how she does it. ive been told it can only be done through rest and no work, so no ridden pressure is put on the hoof - but it can take up to a year to solve...
 
No, you take the shoes off and do as much road work (I led mine out in-hand to start with) as the horse is comfortable with. If the horse is footy on tarmac (mine was always happy on that surface) then you can put boots on. :)
 
chels90 said:
I went to view a horse in september, I fell in love with him straight away. On the day that he was due to come his owner bless her couldn't go through with it but said she would be in touch if she changed her mind. Anyway she got in touch with me today and said she's putting him back up for sale but not until spring because his heels have collapsed and she wants to get him right before she sells him. Just wondered if someone could tell me a little bit about collapsed heels. Thanks
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Is he shod? Has he been shod back to back for a long time?
 
TandD said:
i think collapsed heels are when they contract and 'run forwards' under the hoof, so more or less there is no hoof wall at the back of the foot, resulting in a range of problems e.g. pedal bones pointing upwards, joint problems
my farrier has told me that my boy has them, although can i see it??? no! hes in special shoes to give him support on the heels and most importantly, frog. i would like to know if this lady can solve the problem by the spring and how she does it. ive been told it can only be done through rest and no work, so no ridden pressure is put on the hoof - but it can take up to a year to solve...
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Things have moved on and you can correct this very simply just by stimulation of the caudal hoof structures. In shoes you *might* be able to sort it, but why when you can sort it in just a few months by taking the shoes off.

Actually, this isn't really modernity talking. It's actually how people used to do things before everyone became obsessed with shoes.
 
My lad had this problem and despite 6 months spent trying to get him right with shoes he came sound again very quickly once the shoes came off. He went to Rockley and was sound again when he came home 3 months later, and he'd had other problems too, including navicular and collateral ligament damage.
 
Collapsed or underrun heels are basically as T and D said, both my horse have had them - one as a result of poor farriery and the other caused by conformation which was a much more severe case. In basic terms the toe runs away & the heel gets very low, the lower the heel is the more problems there are in terms of the pedal bone dropping and the tendons & ligaments being stretched. Obviously the hoof/pastern axis shows as out of kilter too.

Both of mine were confirmed by x ray and fixed with remedial shoeing and gel inserts, it took a year to fix the more severe case and only about 4 shoeings for the other. I consulted a barefoot specialist for her who said some horses simply can't go without shoes and mine was one of them ( ducks for cover ) so my vet & farrier worked together to get things fixed. I didn't ride the TB ( worse case ) for 5 weeks, so 2nd shoeing, as she was intermittently lame with the problem but after that I rode her gently and regularly all the way through although she did suffer from abcesses during this period so at times was unable to be ridden.
 
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please! i dont want to cause an argument over shoes/ no shoes!!!
he in aluminium heart bars.... i felt he needed the aluminium because he was struggling with the very heavy steel ones, and his vet and farriers want him in heart bars..... hes been in these for 16 months???
the shoes arent solving the problem, only sustaining what we have... thats why i am interested in how this lady would solve the problem... would it mean no work for 6 months if it had no shoes on??? on if you take the shoes off can you ride the next day and ride normally??
my problem is i dont have 3/6/12 months to turn my horse away. hes working well now and the 'season of comps' is planned. my other horse is already turned away with an injury, so giveing him rest if there is no problem is not an option.
also.....where do any of you find a farrier who will consider your horse going barefoot???? :) we have a distinct lack of them!
 
Heartbars didn't work for mine as she kept pulling them off but the gel worked absolute wonders in supporting the foot to take the strain off the heels. In one of mine it meant no time off work at all, and only one shoeing off for the other, so it's worth talking to your farrier about.

Heartbars seem to keep the heel 'squashed' so they continue to run under as they grow but the gel provides the support so that the heel can come down as it grows - if you see what I mean!
 
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sonjafoers said:
I consulted a barefoot specialist for her who said some horses simply can't go without shoes and mine was one of them ( ducks for cover )
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I don't want to start a bunfight sonjafoers but I am genuinely puzzled about how your barefoot trimmer thought your horse could not go without shoes. Can you explain a bit more, and or show pix? Like, were the feet terribly soft and bendy/thin soled/conformation problems etc? PM me if you prefer.

I managed to get this horse to BE Novice in 9 months and you don't get heels more collapsed than this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4xRQ_EewtyQ/TjMoVkLo71I/AAAAAAAAAt0/KB-4mdTCuFU/s1600/17SEP006.JPG

It isn't a trick of the photo, there are no collateral grooves, the frog was the highest thing on the foot by a long way and the bars were collapsed out sideways and lying almost flat on top of the sole.
 
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TandD said:
what is this gel?? as it sounds exactly like what my horsey needs!
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Your farrier will have it TandD, it's quite expensive though so be warned - I think I was paying about £100 a set with the gel. I can't remember the name of it, I want to say Vettec but I'm not 100% sure on that. ETA: Yes it is, just looked it up!!

I'm not getting into the barefoot argument cptrayes, it's just something that didn't work for mine - I tried with the help of my vet & farrier and after watching her absolutely crippled for 2 weeks I couldn't bear it any longer so as a last resort and at great expense I consulted a barefoot specialist who advised in my case it was best to put shoes back on.

She has all of the problems you mentioned but her main issue is very poor front leg/feet conformation which is often the case with collapsed heels.
 
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Whoa, that's some picture CP! Well done getting that sorted. I thought my 17 YO gelding had collapsed heels. He does but not like that. He's doing quite well BF. Very surprised.

Terri
 
£100 a set??? that positivly cheap! we got charged £250 once..well more than once!!! we did get the foot right though, pedal bone in right place and heel started to grow...but went back to a 'normal' farrier and back to work and lost the good progress :(
 
You have to ask the question WHY the heels have collapsed/run under.

If you read any hoof or farriery texts - it will tell you it's due to lack of frog pressure.

Due to lack of stimulation the frogs become thin and weak.

The heels contract around.

And the whole area hides above the sole.

The heels start to run forwards to try and help the frog find the ground again, but it never manages to get past the shoe.

Allowing the frog stimulation is the key to getting the appropriate shape back again.

To me - taking the shoes off and allowing the frog to touch the ground is the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this and allow the hoof to become healthy again.

But if that isn't an option - then the Vettec products may work in the sense of bringing the ground to the frog.

[YOUTUBE]YFuplJB-NzQ[/YOUTUBE]

The disadvantage would be that it's likely thrush will eat the frog and you'll be back to square one when you stop using it.
 
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