Collars risk causing neck injuries in dogs, study shows

[Clodagh]

When mine are pups they wear a collar to get them used to something round the neck. Then they have a short trailing lead on it. Then they learn that a (gentle) tug on the lead means look at me and you get a reward.
I teach heel in the main without a lead. Mine all, as adults, heel better off lead as on it they don’t have to think where I am. They don’t pull but they will gradually walk ahead (on lead).

 

[ycbm]

I know I have trained this well, because when my dog pulled me over the other night and hit the end of the line with my dead weight on the other end, she came flying back to me for a reward. As I was lying in a heap, not getting up in case I'd broken anything else, she climbed on top of me and stood on my back

Is it cruel to wish there had been someone with their phone ready ?
.

 

[ycbm]

I've been wondering why every man and his dog these days is wearing a harness. I should have guessed there had been a study on it.

I have a picture in my head now of a load of women with the dog in harness on one side and a man in harness on the other. Maybe it's a shame nobody sells the man training?
.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Is it cruel to wish there had been someone with their phone ready ?
.

I actually would love to see CCTV footage of the time I did a cartoon horizontal splat in Adsa after someone spilled yoghurt on the floor.

ETA I do spend a lot of my time lying on the floor, staring at the sky, wondering how I got there.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

It used to be the norm to see toddlers in a harness with reins. Kept them under control and helped them either not fall or be helped back up if they did fall. Then that went out of favour and was replaced by a lead on their arm. Painful watching them being hoisted up by the arm. Now they just seem to run loose.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No one will be surprised to know that I had reins

 

[SOS]

I am not expert on this but both collars and harnesses can cause damage if pulled.

However harnesses change a dogs gait constantly. Collars do not do this.

I am yet to see a harness that is designed and fitted loose enough to not change gait at a walk let alone a run.

 

[skinnydipper]

ETA: I meant to address the issue of people getting pulled around by their big dogs due to being on a harness. It's just daft.

Dogs don't pull because they are wearing a harness. They pull because they haven't been taught to walk on a loose leash.

 

[Rowreach]

It used to be the norm to see toddlers in a harness with reins. Kept them under control and helped them either not fall or be helped back up if they did fall. Then that went out of favour and was replaced by a lead on their arm. Painful watching them being hoisted up by the arm. Now they just seem to run loose.

I unashamedly used harnesses in my kids. Brilliant piece of equipment. I was talking to a (younger) friend recently and mentioned this and she told me she had an “invisible” harness for hers, made to look like a backpack, because apparently judging parents for keeping their kids safe is a big thing. Sort of like AAD really

 

[Clodagh]

Dogs don't pull because they are wearing a harness. They pull because they haven't been taught to walk on a loose leash.

But harnesses do enable discomfort free pulling.

 

[Teaselmeg]

But harnesses do enable discomfort free pulling.

Training a dog not to pull shouldn't be about the level of discomfort you can exert to stop the pulling.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Not that I massively disagree that discomfort shouldn't be the actual aim, are we back to the idea that a dog should never have a negative experience? Because that's not possible, from nature.

 

[maya2008]

It used to be the norm to see toddlers in a harness with reins. Kept them under control and helped them either not fall or be helped back up if they did fall. Then that went out of favour and was replaced by a lead on their arm. Painful watching them being hoisted up by the arm. Now they just seem to run loose.

I used the harness my parents had used on me, on my children. Worked just fine. Can’t see the point of those wrist things. All their weight on one joint.

 

[skinnydipper]

If it will help anyone, I'll explain how I taught the big girl to walk on a loose leash, wearing a harness.

Round the house and garden, no leash or harness, walking by my side. Rewarded with praise and treats.

Out 'in the real world'. Wearing a harness. Leash went tight, walk stopped, no going anywhere. Loose leash, walk continued. Praise and treats when she was walking with no tension on the leash.

Eye contact rewarded with praise or treats (and still is)

I’ve tried that turning round and going the other way with other dogs, I wasn't keen on it. With this method if she wanted to go anywhere there had to be no tension on the leash. She quickly got the hang of it.

It’s a simple method but effective.

She reminds me of a lioness padding along beside me*, on a loose leash. She is allowed to stop and sniff, we are not in a race.

*not that I've ever had a lioness walking along beside me

I use a 6ft leather leash. When she is by my side I hold it in one hand, across my body to the other hand, it takes up the slack. When she needs extra leash length then leash held with one hand.

It's a handy leash, I've had it a lot of years. It has a floating ring so when I take the leash off I can loop it across my body and tuck the extra length in a pocket.


I'm always keen to learn so if anyone wants to share how they train loose leash walking I would be interested in reading it.

 

[Clodagh]

If it will help anyone, I'll explain how I taught the big girl to walk on a loose leash, wearing a harness.

Round the house and garden, no leash or harness, walking by my side. Rewarded with praise and treats.

Out 'in the real world'. Wearing a harness. Leash went tight, walk stopped, no going anywhere. Loose leash, walk continued. Praise and treats when she was walking with no tension on the leash.

Eye contact rewarded with praise or treats (and still is)

I’ve tried that turning round and going the other way with other dogs, I wasn't keen on it. With this method if she wanted to go anywhere there had to be no tension on the leash. She quickly got the hang of it.

It’s a simple method but effective.

She reminds me of a lioness padding along beside me*, on a loose leash. She is allowed to stop and sniff, we are not in a race.

*not that I've ever had a lioness walking along beside me

I use a 6ft leather leash. When she is by my side I hold it in one hand, across my body to the other hand, it takes up the slack. When she needs extra leash length then leash held with one hand.

It's a handy leash, I've had it a lot of years. It has a floating ring so when I take the leash off I can loop it across my body and tuck the extra length in a pocket.


I'm always keen to learn so if anyone wants to share how they train loose leash walking I would be interested in reading it.

I’ve already said how I do it. Or basically the same as you, except lead attached to neck rather than harness once dogs heels without restraint.

 

[skinnydipper]

I’ve already said how I do it. Or basically the same as you, except lead attached to neck rather than harness once dogs heels without restraint.

Yeah, sorry Clodagh. I did see that.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Not dissimilar, only I use a collar lol. I attach a leash in formal heeling but it is only deployed if necessary, better looking at it than for it. Don't do eye contact, engagement, just looking in my general direction is fine, formal heeling to my armpit/shoulder rather than looking for my face as that causes crabbing/tripping over the dog. All trained with food, my 3.5 year old still gets food for almost every social and training recall and check-in and it's the primary reward for all my tracking and obedience.

I do appreciate that it is easier to train LLW to some breeds/types than others, that may be genetically inclined to want to go out/pull/work remotely.

Most people rush and just want to go out 'for a walk' and allow the dog to pull/can't be bothered putting weeks and months into the training and not actually going anywhere. One instance of allowing the dog to tow you (one) because you CBA and just want to get the walk out of the way, will undo all the training. An other issue is going to the same place and doing the same thing every day and building expectation and the dog wants to pull to where the fun happens, dogs know they can move faster than we can. Whereas with me, the fun happens any time, any place.

Again, to me, none of this is an equipment issue. As much as I do not believe we should deliberately discomfort a dog, I also don't think we should facilitate dogs to injure us, either.

 

[skinnydipper]

Eye contact rewarded with praise or treats (and still is)

Not constant eye contact. Just 'checking in', acknowledging now and again that there is someone at the other end of the leash.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also, humans are crap at rewards. A lot of people take a certain amount of food on a walk with them and distribute it evenly in a miserly way over a time period no matter if the dog is doing good or bad. You should see people's minds melt when I take my dog out, she does something really well first time out of the trap and I give her two handfuls of food, a big party and put her away again. If my obedience training sessions are longer than ten minutes, then they are too long. Then it just becomes drilling.

 

[Esmae]

We have whippets. We have always had whippets. They wear collars. They don't pull on the lead. Never, ever had one that did. No pull no problem.

 

[Arzada]

I frequently study observe the pulling phenomenon. I'm not an academic so I haven't had to spend hours finding a grant so I am usually rewarding my endeavours with the world's best Mocha at my favourite waterside coffee stop. It's on a lovely off road scenic route so lots of of walkers, dogs etc and coffee stops. The best behaved dogs so far have been the pair of Cane Corsos. Interesting to me as it's the first time I've seen Cane Corsos and also prong collars. The dogs sat as asked and quietly observed passing dogs etc. A guy on a bike drifted by and then drifted back to ask if they were Bulldogs and if he could look at them. Yeah mate was the reply but don't touch, they're not always friendly.

I digress! The latest 'pull your owner into the bushes' manoeuvre was performed by a Dachshund, twice. Actually the dog pulled both the male owner and the child in a buggy which was in the other hand.

Referring to ycbm's thread about speaking up for dogs. I feel like saying something though I never have when I see breathless dogs pulling so hard into their collar. It seems that the owners are unaware as it's become their norm.

 

[Lois Lame]

This is why all equipment should be conditioned.

It was made from nylon, from memory.

 

[skinnydipper]

It was made from nylon, from memory.

Conditioned to wear it. In other words don't just slap it on and expect the dog to be happy with the new piece of equipment.

You might be able to get away with it but if not then get the dog used to it slowly, with lots of positive reinforcement.

 

[twiggy2]

Dogs don't pull because they are wearing a harness. They pull because they haven't been taught to walk on a loose leash.

Same with a collar...

If it will help anyone, I'll explain how I taught the big girl to walk on a loose leash, wearing a harness.

Round the house and garden, no leash or harness, walking by my side. Rewarded with praise and treats.

Out 'in the real world'. Wearing a harness. Leash went tight, walk stopped, no going anywhere. Loose leash, walk continued. Praise and treats when she was walking with no tension on the leash.

Eye contact rewarded with praise or treats (and still is)

I’ve tried that turning round and going the other way with other dogs, I wasn't keen on it. With this method if she wanted to go anywhere there had to be no tension on the leash. She quickly got the hang of it.

It’s a simple method but effective.

She reminds me of a lioness padding along beside me*, on a loose leash. She is allowed to stop and sniff, we are not in a race.

*not that I've ever had a lioness walking along beside me

I use a 6ft leather leash. When she is by my side I hold it in one hand, across my body to the other hand, it takes up the slack. When she needs extra leash length then leash held with one hand.

It's a handy leash, I've had it a lot of years. It has a floating ring so when I take the leash off I can loop it across my body and tuck the extra length in a pocket.


I'm always keen to learn so if anyone wants to share how they train loose leash walking I would be interested in reading it.

Pretty much the same with a collar here too.
The difference for me is that a harness alters the whole way a dog carries ita body continuously and wear and tear is inevitable

 

[Lois Lame]

Dogs don't pull because they are wearing a harness. They pull because they haven't been taught to walk on a loose leash.

No, of course they don't pull due to wearing a harness. And yes, of course a pulling dog in a collar or harness hasn't been taught to lead properly.

To state the obvious, a big dog wearing a harness instead of a collar is much more easily lost control of.

I think this trend of dogs wearing harnesses is not the be all and end all that many seem to think it is.

 

[Lois Lame]

Conditioned to wear it. In other words don't just slap it on and expect the dog to be happy with the new piece of equipment.

I didn't.

 

[skinnydipper]

To state the obvious, a big dog wearing a harness instead of a collar is much more easily lost control of.

Could you explain that to me please.

I have a very large dog and would be interested to know how a collar would be the best option for her when it comes to control.

 

[Lois Lame]

Could you explain that to me please.

I have a very large dog and would be interested to know how a collar would be the best option for her when it comes to control.

You have far less leverage when a big dog is walked in a harness. We don't put a dog-style harness on a horse because we'd be run away with.

 

[skinnydipper]

You have far less leverage when a big dog is in a harness. We don't put a dog-style harness on a horse because we'd be run away with.

I must be a bit thick. Leverage?

Do you mean have her in a head collar?

 

[CorvusCorax]

It was made from nylon, from memory.

I mean the dog needs to be trained to wear any sort of equipment, how did you condition it?