collection taught before extension?

Collection and extension go hand in hand. You teach the horse to go forwards and to come back. In the beginning they do not have the suppleness/strength to carry and push so they need to learn to push which often puts them on the forehand, but this improves as they get stronger.

You have to do something different to get something different and they will not develop if you dont ask them to do something new even if its is not correct (balanced/uphill) to begin with.

With the return to working and then asking the to come back more they will develop the strength to carry.

Just as with any athlete this means pushing the body correctly and developing the correct muscles.

This all takes time.
 
I think the problem with teaching extension before collection is definitely better for the horse's ultimate developement (of course only a degree of collection as you wouldn't expect a 4 year old to learn how to piaffe under saddle before he can do a simple lengthened trot). By teaching a degree of collection (usually through controlling the length of stride while still riding in a forward way) you teach the horse to engage BUT you also teach it to respond to your aids, it learns to be light and soft. While teaching extension before collection may have it's benefits aswell, I can see how this can teach a horse a "lazy" gait by teaching it that there is ONLY a working gait and a very, rushed unbalanced one - and as we all know it's hard to reschool a horse once it's learnt something. Not only that but a young horse physically lacks the strength he needs to sustain a good, engaged lengthened trot.
 
I think a lot of this debate is about semantics! I.e. what is 'collection' vs. 'impulsion' vs. 'forwards'. I have a young horse in Spain and his trainer (who trained with the Royal Equestrian School in Jerez so very classical) will always establish the basics of collection, at least to shoulder-in, before introducing extension. As has been mentioned, this ensures the horse has learnt to engage the hindquarters correctly and has a true extension rather than a rushed on-the-forehand gait.

However, it is all degrees. No 'classical' trainer would expect a horse to piaffe before teaching them to show extended strides, just as no-one would expect a horse to learn an extended pace before a medium pace (I hope!).
 
They will be rushed on their forehands until they are strong enough. They need to do it to get strong enough.

The forward and back exercise with shoulder in will help them develop the strength to do it.

They dont become strong from not doing it and if they are not taught to go forwards - rushing or on the forehand - they tend to get stuck in their rhythm.

Too many confuse collection with slow.
 
B-B and mik - I agree with both of you ;) Though mik, I don't think that's limited to Spain unfortunately.

There is a lot of very poor training there though - I have seen quite a few horses there that have never been allowed to relax down and forwards and are kept 'collected' (i.e. short-striding and slow, not genuine collection) with curb bits or pelhams on the bottom rein only for their entire working lives until they are bridle lame. I'd hate to think what would happen when so-called trainers of those horses decide to try extending... I'd better not start on poor riding and training in Spain though or I'll never stop!!
 
It's OK J1ffy, I agree completely, but it is great to see the judges speak openly about it. The younger riders coming up are the ones to watch as they have some good trainers working them. :)))
 
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