Collies.

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Christmas_Kate

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I think this is my first post in here, so be kind!!!

Okay, after lots of talking over the last 2 years, we've decided we WILL get a dog. Originally OH wanted a Husky or Alsatian, but after a little thought into the implications of such a large, and potentially vicious dog, he has changed his mind.

Okay, we've almost decided on a border collie. When I say decided, we like the breed and think that given our circumstances (huge garden, plan on building a huge kennel and run, and we have access to miles of countryside outside our back door), and family enviroment, this breed would suit us best. I need a companion at night who would gusrd the house when OH is away, and come with me to the yard on dark mornings and nights (I walk), and a good friend to the children, and friend for us to enjoy family walks with.

but, i need to know a couple of things about the breed.
Are they good with children? And are they known for barking alot? (we have neighbours who wouldnt appreciate a dog barking all day... it'd be kenneled in the day when we weren't here as I wouldnt like to leave it cooped in the house).

I'm not particularly after a certain brreding 'line', just one bred for it's good temperament and health. Not interested in working lines.

Where would i look to? I don't really want to spend a huge amount on a dog, I don't plan to do anything with this dog except have it as a pet. But all I seem to se advertised are "excellent working lines" and "show lines". I'm in leicestershire BTW.

Any collie owners out there who would like to offer their wisdom or advice, please do!
 
dont post in here very often either
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I have always had collies, and only had one who was safe to leave with children. They have all been from working lines, and were all lovely dogs, but not really family dogs, apart from meg who was more like a lab
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Santos, who I have had for 5 years is a wonderful dog, but he is very possesive of me, and will growl at kids if they approach him, but is fine as he very rarely meets any here.

I have however met a super collie that my friend has, from Datana (sp) collies, who are bread as family collies, and are reknown for their lovey temprement
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Good choice I'd say. I've always had collies since I was a child and I think they are wonderful little dogs.

Mine have all been working strain collies. They are often far smaller than the show dogs....I like the proper little collies I'm afraid.

Some collies can be sharp with children but in my experience it is usually because they haven't been brought up with children.....ours all were and as such all have been great with kids.

Mine have never been big barkers. They will bark if something is amiss but I have always taught mine to quieten when I say. I would say that the only collies who go on and on and on all day long, are collies who are thoroughly bored! If you leave your dog at home just once in a while then I doubt you will have much trouble with the barking. Just take the dog for a jolly good walk beforehand; combined with putting the dog in the kennel at certain times of the day even when you are at home. This will help the dog to relax and see that this space is his and he can have a sleep whilst you are out.

The majority of my collies have lived outside, although to be honest they are very good house dogs too.

I have always bought directly from farms. My current purebred collie came from a farm where the Mother was a cattle dog and the Father was a sheepdog. She is an ISDS reg. dog. Our other one, which we never brought with us here to Canada, was ISDS and KC reg and she was a complete and utter nutter! But she was great with kids and she was a quiet dog.

I would never entertain the idea of buying a KC reg collie again though. Ask some of the local farmers, they are bound to know of someone whose collie is birthing. If not look in your the Farmers Weekly - they are always in there.

There is a huge price difference between buying a show bred on and a working bred one....I actually think it should be the other way around though as the working ones are far superior if you ask me.
 
I prefer the smaller collies too. TBH I'm at home pretty much all day every day. I'm always out and about at "home' ie in the village so the dog could come with me. And when R goes to school, I'll only be out 9am - 3pm hence why we plan to have a kennel and run. OH is about from 1pm on wards...
 
i have collies and adore the breed.
i have a 16yr old,6 yr old-who has just had puppies,a 14 week old and my other half doesn't know yet LOL i am intending to keep a puppy.
i have started sheepdog training and intend to work my dogs but they make fabulous pets,can be bit mad till about two years old but to be honest everyone i've had has been a joy to own.
the more work and i don't mean just physically(sp) mental too the better.my 6 yr old does fantastic tricks which the kids can teach them.

here are mum and babies
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You'll be fine then. I would definitely advise you buy a puppy though rather than an older dog. This is one breed where you have to be so careful with buying from rescue centres or older ones. My KC one, the one in England, was 18 months old when I bought her and she already had "issues". She became a bit better in the 5 years we had her, but some things she could never really get over.....and a flight to Canada would have been another additition to those "issues".

My old girl who is 14, I bought as a 6 week old puppy - best dog I've ever had; she's my girl.
 
.....deep breath .....right ...a Border Collie is a breed that needs to have a job of work to do....leaving it all day shut in a kennel and run from 9-3 will drive it NUTS and you will almost certainly have behaviour problems - not to mention noise problems. They are bred to herd and this is 'hard wired' into them - even the show line collies will circle and herd almost anything that moves they can also have a tendency to nip whilst herding if the 'object' is not moving fast enough for their liking - this could include your children - although they are not innately an agressive breed.

The advice to " get one from a farm" fills me with horror - these will be almost certainly from the most extreme working lines and doubly active and difficult to keep as a pet not to mention the fact that they will be most unlikely to have been tested for Collie eye anomoly, PRA, or HD - all health issues in this breed - an potentially expensive vets fees if you do not take care to only buy from unaffected lines. Show bred lines will be bigger but quieter ( but still VERY active !)

if you plan to do Agility/Obedience/Flyball/Heelwork to Music/Working Trials or any of the 'doggy sports' then yes get a Border Collie it you want an easy gpiong family pet ( especially as it will be your first dog ) then please DONT !.

What you and your family should be doing is to get a big book on all the available dog breeds - sit down and make a shortlist of all the ones that appeal to you then contact the breed clubs who can put you in touch with reputable breeders. Then go along and have a look - ask loads of questions and be prepared to wait for the right puppy. please don't be tempted to rush or buy from the local papers - you will have o live with the results for the next 14 years so take your time and choose carefully - you may have to pay more initially but you'll save yourself a lot of heartache f you choose wisely now.

Alternative that you might like to look at could be :

Italian Spinone
Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen
any of the Setters ( Irish, English, Gordon)
German Shorthaired Pointer
Hugarian Visla - infact most of the gundog group would make fab family dogs apart perhaps from working springers who can also be totally MAD !
giant Schnauzer
Australian Cattle dog ( Kelpie)
Bearded Collie
Bernese Mountain Dog
Bouvier de Flandres
Rough or smooth collie

well you get the picture ...there are LOADS of alternatives out there
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Hello.I have had two collies now.Spot my old boy (now 16 years old) has the most perfect temprement and loves everyone.He was from working parents.He needed alot of exersize.He was forever herding you when out on walks.Now he is old a gentle stroll around the field at the back is enough for him.I would trust him with any child.Jake on the other had was abit funny with children.He wouldent intentionally go for a child but if they got to close to his dinner,toy he would go for a nip at them.They are a very loyal breed and will stay at your side through thick and thin but have heard from quite a few that they can be funny arounds kids.
 
I have a rescue collie and he is the sweetest, kindest dog I've known.
He always has access to the garden and will always find himself something to entertain himself and will sit for hours just watching the ponies out grazing. He is energetic but will also switch off too. If we have to go out for the day he is absolutely fine..he is shut in the dog room with my other two. He'll bark at the usual things that dogs bark at but will always stop when told to and never goes on and on..
We have lots of kids/people coming and going from here and he's never had any issues with anyone. In fact he adores people and attention..
I would be tempted to see whats around at the rescue centre's. Mine came from Dogs Trust and they are all thoroughly tested for temperments, and to see if you're compatible.
 
I think its probably very hard to generalise about collies, like many popular breeds there are bad and good ones. They do need to be kept busy and in my limited experience can be quite noisy. Temperament is very important, so if you do decide to have one I would make sure the dam is calm and friendly and that the pups are well socialised. I have to say the only dog I have rehome because I couldn't trust him with my children was a collie. But in his defence he came to us at 9 months from rescue kennel because my now-ex wanted to do agility with him. He was very possessive of toys, food etc and altho I kept him for a while after ex left (typical man left me with the problems!) I decided to part with him because whereas my then 18month old son could hug my GSDs all he wanted I didn't dare let him near collie. Do loads of research before you make your final choice, and I would say do not go for too strong a working line as they really do want to be kept busy all the time. Although I'm sure there are many collies in rescue kennels if you have young children I would always recommend getting as young a puppy as possible.Good luck.
 
Completely agree with milor here....you're storing up a whole world of trouble getting a collie from a working strain. They are bred to work not be a companion animal and being in a kennel all day with no interaction and nothing to do will drive it demented and I wouldn't pick a working collie if children are involved either. They don't get in the papers for it because it's not tabloid fodder but I've seen statistics that say more children are bitten by 'pet' collies than by any other dog. There are so many more suitable dogs for your situation. Why not visit a rescue centre and take advice from the staff there?
 
Thankyou, this is a concern of mine. This isnt a first dog for us, I have had dogs since I was tiny, but all terriers or springers. My dad's also a farmer. My last dog was a collie x springer, but we had to let my sister have her due to problems with the neighbours at the old house (they kept throwing things at her and scaring her). I like the 'smaller' working breed, but are aware that getting a working strain would mean lots of energy. Plus, buying from a local farmer doesnt appeal to me, I'd rather go through a reputable breeder.
TBH we have looked at German Pointers, and adore them. But again quite big.

OH and I need to sit down and have another chat about this. Thanks for all your opinions and advice
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TBH we have looked at German Pointers, and adore them. But again quite big.

[/ QUOTE ] All the German Pointers I have known have been lovely dogs, but rather exuberant. One lady I knew rehomed hers because he kept bowling her small kids over and she was worried there was going to be an accident. I'm not sure what age your children are, but a GP wouldn't be my first choice for a family with toddlers for that reason. Although I must stress the dog was not aggressive by temperament at all.

Edited to add that I echo the advice about getting a puppy rather than an older dog in your situation. If you want a dog to be good around children it is important that they are socialised from an early age and if you have a pup you can ensure this is done properly. Personally, I wouldn't get a dog with an unknown background if I had children - you never know what experiences it may have had in the past.
 
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The advice to " get one from a farm" fills me with horror - these will be almost certainly from the most extreme working lines and doubly active and difficult to keep as a pet not to mention the fact that they will be most unlikely to have been tested for Collie eye anomoly, PRA, or HD - all health issues in this breed

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I'm sorry but how many working strain collies bought from reputable working farms have you had Milor?

The above is quite untrue and I think you are generalising to an unfair level. There are farmers and then there are farmers - I'm not advocating that she buys from some backstreet dodgy puppy-farmer here. There are dodgy dealers in all walks of life and this can go right up to show bred dogs too! My dogs were vet checked and came with little certificates prior to me buying them.....and they all came from lovely farms.

Interestingly one of my neighbours bought (apparently well bred) KC reg. ones at the same time as I bought my ISDS one - both of their dogs died within 4 years......mine is 14 now and still going strong.

ISDS bred puppies are often given exactly the same care and attention as puppies bred by show breeders. I find some of your comments quite condescending actually. KC is not always the way to go.....and in my humble opinion, when it comes to collies I think that KC have done more to harm this breed than "improve" it.

Obviously we all have our different opinions - you are a KC girl through and through - I am most certainly not.
 
Collies need to be kept mentally occupied whether from working strain or not so to have one kennelled or runned for any length of time is IMO mental cruelty for them. I have known equal numbers who have been good or bad with children, al ours have been wonderful but thats down to socialising them with well behaved children right from the puppy stage. However I wouldnt allow a small child to play with a collie unsupervised.

I have had a number of collies in the past both small and large, bitches and dogs but they have never had to fit in around 'work hours' and have always been with me, usually on yards where they do need to be kept an eye on if there is anything that moves fast or runs!

We have a wonderful bitch at the moment who has the softest and most loving loyal temperament and we had her as a small pup. However in the past I have had rescue dogs who have been a little older, ususally under 12 months, who have required a great deal of remedial handling and these I would never trust completely with strangers or children.

If you are not going to be able to devote the day to a collie I would advise you look at something else to be honest.
 
coming from 'lovely farms' is hardly going to guarantee a temperament suitable for a family pet -but almost certainly WILL mean that the pups will be more suitable for a working home. You are quite right in that I have never bought a farm bred dog - but I do know the folk that run the Valgray Border collie rescue centre and they are constantly being handed in these manic working line collies - it's not the dog's fault - just that they are bought and kept in totally the wrong environment for their temperament.

I'm sorry that you find my tone condescending - it most certainly is not meant that way ...I do however very strongly believe that 'a dog is for life' and if more people took greater care over their choice of dog initially then fewer would end up on rescue - quite frankly most people take more time and trouble over choosing their new car than their dog ( who should be a family member for the next 14 years ! ) -

"My dogs were vet checked and came with little certificates prior to me buying them....." .. this means precisely NOTHING ...only RCVS health schemes run in conjunction with the KC have any real impact on inherited health within breeds ...and the reason I am a great believer in KC registration is because it is the best method we currently have of tracing lines - yes I know it's not foolproof but it goes a long way to helping to eradicate many many inherited faults...and don't be fooled into thinking that ISDS bred Collies or indeed any unchecked dog does not have these simply that they have not been tested for them.
 
I have yet to meet anyone, who lives a normal working life who can be with their dog 24/7. Some may be lucky and have that, but not everyone.

As I said, I will be working 9am - 3pm, my OH will be around from 1pm onwards, so in essence, the dog will be alone for maximum of 4 hours, 3 days a week. Hence us deciding to get a kennel and run, so that it can at least be outside for that time.
Any dog requires full comittment wether it be a terrier or a retriever. My father is a farmer and we have had many working dogs in the past (from gun dogs to sheepdogs), so I'm not a complete novice looking for some cuddly part time puppy. We've never had a collie, so I was just wondering what they'd be like as family pets?

I didnt want to start a row
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I didnt think we were having a row!! Am just very wary of leaving such bright dogs with time on their paws....Ive seen the consequences!
 
We do like a good fight on here!!! A row will always start when people own a breed that another person says has faults........we're very protective. If anyone told me lurchers were brainless it would be pistols at dawn even though I know deep down it's true!

Don't feel you can't come on here and ask for advice but be aware you may have to filter some of it and choose which advice to take!

Don't know if anyone has suggested it but have you thought of a rottweiler? The bitches are not that big and they can be quite solitary I believe. A friend has one and he is the most loving companion but enjoys a good romp too followed by a very long sleep so would be OK to be left for quite a while.

Let us know how you get on with whichever dog you decide on and post lots of puppy photos please
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If anyone told me lurchers were brainless it would be pistols at dawn even though I know deep down it's true!

[/ QUOTE ] Oi - my lurcher isn't brainless
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! But then she is a collie cross, LOL
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[/ QUOTE ] Oi - my lurcher isn't brainless
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! But then she is a collie cross, LOL
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Ahh, you see one cancels out the other
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I've never owned a pure collies but have had colliexlabs which have all been lovely dogs. At the moment I have 2 colliexlab brothers, one of them is very collieish and tries to herd everything and the other is more labby and just wants to fetch and carry things. I've had them both since they were 6 weeks old. The only thing I'll say is that the more collie like one is quite nervous, even though he's never been treated with anything but kindness, I don't know if this is a trait of collies? I find the colliexlabs have the best of both breeds and are great family dogs, I think I'd also recommend you get 2, especially if you're planning on locking them up during the day. I got the 2 brothers and they're the best of friends, they keep each other occupied and it was much easier to manage them as puppies as they spend so much time playing with each other. I'ts also a good idea to get them as young as possible, as soon as they're weaned from their mother, as they'll bond with you a lot better and will be much better with children if introduced to them from a young age. My two are so loyal and well behaved and are lovely dogs and as they were crossbreeds they were free to a good home!!
 
I've never owned pure collies but have had colliexlabs which have all been lovely dogs. At the moment I have 2 colliexlab brothers, one of them is very collieish and tries to herd everything and the other is more labby and just wants to fetch and carry things. I've had them both since they were 6 weeks old. The only thing I'll say is that the more collie like one is quite nervous, even though he's never been treated with anything but kindness, I don't know if this is a trait of collies? I find the colliexlabs have the best of both breeds and are great family dogs, I think I'd also recommend you get 2, especially if you're planning on locking them up during the day. I got the 2 brothers and they're the best of friends, they keep each other occupied and it was much easier to manage them as puppies as they spend so much time playing with each other. I'ts also a good idea to get them as young as possible, as soon as they're weaned from their mother, as they'll bond with you a lot better and will be much better with children if introduced to them from a young age. My two are so loyal and well behaved and are lovely dogs and as they were crossbreeds they were free to a good home!!
 
An Alsatian (GSD) is no more potentially vicious than a collie. It is said of border collies that if they aren't given a job of work to do, they will go self-employed. They really, probably above all dogs apart from Foxhounds and Huskies, really need to work and keep occupied. I would never ever have one as a pet, but that is personal preference. I like a dog who is happy with two walks a day and to mooch around with me on my terms and at my pace!
 
I do know of two border collies who had to be rehomed because the owners couldn't give them the stimulation they needed. One was a city dog, so not a huge surprise, but the other had a country home with a lovely kennel and run and owners who worked part-time. However, that wasn't enough for her so they managed to find her a home with a retired widower who was happy to spend almost every waking hour with her.

I think they are lovely dogs, but perhaps some homes suit them better than others.
 
sorry but i disagree,my 14 weeek old lives in a run with my other dogs and unfortunately much as i dislike it i have to go to work so my spend all day there and they are happy,sane and loving dogs.
my 14 week old old went in my uncles house last week her first time indoors and just flopped down and went to sleep
so don't be put off collies are great.
would advise dog training classes but you would be best to take any new dog and i have know plenty of terriers that have far more attitude.
 
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