Colour and temperament

Clodagh

Clodagh

Playing chess with pigeons
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At the dog trainer last week she said 'Every yellow lab I have seen has been more anxious than black ones'. I have long heard that yellows are harder work than blacks, and always dismissed it, but most 'Old wives tales' do have some basis in fact.
As a yellow and a black could easily be from the same litter it is odd. Any thoughts?
 
Both the yellow and black labs that I have worked with, they have been pets and in households with young family members with autism or in a work place with them have all been equally nuts.
All trainable but exist in a world of high stimulation, fun loving, outgoing, and nuts.
Chocolate labs are in another league in my experienced I have no experience of what is referred to as fox red but then they are just a dark yellow anyway.
 
My late husband used to do a lot of rough shooting and beating. He used to say he saw far more black labradors out than yellows and never ever saw a chocolate working. I have always thought the black ones to be more sensible. Have known heaps and had two blacks ourselves. Our yellow one was bought as a pet when my husband gave up shooting and he certainly wouldn't have the attention span to be a great working dog. Despite this he is very much loved!
 
In my experience the chocolates are all nuts. Labradors are so popular right now that behavior is all over the board. In well bred labs the blacks seem to be higher energy and the yellows a little more mellow. The field people I've met prefer the blacks and won't touch the chocolates.
 
Funnily enough as popularity I would say yellows are getting more and more common (shooting here). The old fashioned guns all have blacks (my husband included, he thinks yellows are terribly 'new money' and as for fox reds...)
Counting fox reds as yellows there were 7 out picking up on Monday, and only one black. All the guns had blacks though. And grouse moors. :-)
Of my vast knowledge of four labs, the two blacks were easier to train but none are at all related so could all be coincidence with such a small sample.
There is a kennels breeding working chocs now, so they should become more 'ion the ball'?
 
Clodagh said:
At the dog trainer last week she said 'Every yellow lab I have seen has been more anxious than black ones'. I have long heard that yellows are harder work than blacks, and always dismissed it, but most 'Old wives tales' do have some basis in fact.
As a yellow and a black could easily be from the same litter it is odd. Any thoughts?
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We currently have a yellow and a black from the same litter. They certainly are very different from each other, the yellow is very people oriented, likes to lie between her sister and the adult Rottweiler, touching them both and is much the easier to deal with, although they are both very trainable. The black is a real live wire, affectionate but independent. I wouldn't say that either of them is anxious in our set-up but I do think the yellow would struggle with separation if she was in a single dog household. She is weird, though, she is the first Lab I'e ever known that stops eating when she is full, even if that is before the dish is empty.

As a family, we have had all 3 colours, up to 7 at a time. There have been quiet ones, brash ones, bright ones, bumbling ones and those in between. I would say that we have only ever had one that could be described as anxious and she was frightened of thunder and fireworks, rather than being generally anxious. She was black.

ETA re 'fox red'. My parents first Lab, bought as a pup almost 70 years ago, was the colour which is now described as 'fox red' - his pedigree said 'yellow' of course but it certainly isn't a new colour. The pale creams were fashionable for a while but thesethings come full circle.

ETA 2. I had 2 brown Labs (I refuse to call them chocolate), from the same litter. One had to be pts at 18 months with Hodgekins disease. The other was epileptic but lived to be a month or two short of 15. When we had to have the 6 yr old Rottweiler pts because of a tumour, and decided to go back to Labs, I refused to have another brown one, although the one I kept was an absolutely fabulous bright character, who kept me entertained for hours. I didn't want to risk any more health problems.

Rather than colour dictating temperament, I would say that show-bred Labs are calmer, slower and easier in general, working bred ones are higher energy and need that energy to be harnessed. In the 'good old days', they were dual purpose, we had dual - show and Field Trial - Champions in our pedigrees.
 
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I don't know about blacks and yellows....But can confirm the vast majority of chocolate labs are loons!

I've never heard of silver's outside of the us. They very much look and act like Weims from what I've heard from my American colleagues...quite possibly as the initial "throwback dilution in a purebred lab" just happened to come from a breeder....who also bred Weimeraners lol
I level of denial about the dilution factor coming from an outside breed is quite astounding to hear.
 
Aru, it is amazing that the original silver labs came from a kennel that bred both Labradors and Weims. Shocking I know! When it first popped up it was before DNA testing could tell no more than that they were dogs.
 
Funny, as from my experience of working in a veterinary clinic that had many working lab breeders, the black males were easy. The black females were nervous wrecks. No matter what litter or parentage they were from!
 
So it seems that it is just coincidence. Being a gun dog trainer she maybe sees a lot of yellows that go back to one sire? Ffee is certainly a bit anxious, although she is like a bull in a china shop she goes very tragic if she feels she has crossed the line.
Tawny is not at all anxious. Who knows!
Interesting PAS about the chocs having health problems in the past. I suppose they were purely bred for colour, originally. I only know one of them, a pet, and she is a delight and a ripe old age.
My mum knew a fox red in the 50's, so no they aren't new, but no one would have wanted one then! Let alone paid more for the colour.
 
We've had a black bitch, black dog and yellow bitch, all were/are affectionate, loved to work and easy to train. The black dog is quite aloof though, and training was definitely on his terms and he has taken that attitude into his retirement. The black bitch, was a machine, everyone's best friend and a real mother figure. The yellow bitch has energy levels that we've never encountered before, very quick to learn and wants to please so a dream to train. All have had an off switch so as soon as they return home, they put their heads down to snooze. Each has been as greedy as the other. Gotta love a Labrador! ??❤️
 
Ah yes the silvers, I met a couple as the old water bailiff at the lakes used to look after his daughters dogs and she bought 2 bitches to breed for the colour. They looked more like cheasapeake bay retrievers cross weimaraner ti me and never did throw silver pups so she gave up and got rid of the dogs replacing them with something else to breed.
I once arrived at work to an excited receptionist telling me there was a man in with a really rare coloured puppy worth thousands, it turned out her was trying to sell a chocolate dogue de bordeaux! It had white legal and a white chest too, she tool a lot of convincing that there is no such thing and it was a chocolate and white mutt of some sort.
 
Well I am assured this is certainly the case with GSDs (CC wouold you agree?) that sables are generally more work orientated (some may say "naughty if they dont understand than black and golds, presumably because of the strains that bring the colour so my question would be whats bringing the yellow?
Dont know enough about Labs to know this!
 
Ranyhyn said:
Well I am assured this is certainly the case with GSDs (CC wouold you agree?) that sables are generally more work orientated (some may say "naughty if they dont understand than black and golds, presumably because of the strains that bring the colour so my question would be whats bringing the yellow?
Dont know enough about Labs to know this!
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Yes and no ;) grey dogs aren't born workers but most working line dogs are grey, if that makes sense. You can also find greys in the show lines.
It's a bit convoluted but essentially GSDs are now (at least) two separate gene pools. There were four male 'pillars' of the modern breed, and in the 1980s saw the beginning of the split, where two of those males were elevated and promoted above all others and are still behind most show lines. Grey, black and bi-colour dogs were sidelined and no grey or black dog has made it into the top show group in Germany for many years.
Before this, there was no difference, the same dogs were competing at high level in working championships as were in the top group in the shows.
And as a result, since the split, the working line dogs are mostly grey, black or bi-colour and can all be traced back to one of the other four 'pillars'.
Of course you will see black and red dogs in working trials and the other colours in the beauty ring, but as a generalisation, they would be in the minority.
Then there are the off colours, white, liver, blue. But a black dog can be genetically white, I told you it was convoluted!!
Panda is a relatively new mutation and I do know one born from working lines, fully DNA tested, he is not a crossbreed. His sire is known for throwing white chest flashes.

Another generalisation would be, dogs with black spots on their tongues are always good workers, and long coat GSDs, whether show or working line, are always good trackers. I have no idea why!!!
 
twiggy2 said:
Ah yes the silvers, I met a couple as the old water bailiff at the lakes used to look after his daughters dogs and she bought 2 bitches to breed for the colour. They looked more like cheasapeake bay retrievers cross weimaraner ti me and never did throw silver pups so she gave up and got rid of the dogs replacing them with something else to breed.
I once arrived at work to an excited receptionist telling me there was a man in with a really rare coloured puppy worth thousands, it turned out her was trying to sell a chocolate dogue de bordeaux! It had white legal and a white chest too, she tool a lot of convincing that there is no such thing and it was a chocolate and white mutt of some sort.
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There is a silver stud dog in Essex, he looks like a chessie. That slightly curling coat et al.
If you could get labs that really looked the colour of a weim I might be tempted, I love that silver grey. OH would baulk, he struggled with getting yellows. :-)
 
Clodagh said:
Why were they surprised!? (the pups...)
I remember years ago reading about black and tan labs. Mmmm..
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Well because none of us knew about them existing,I’ve never read a book on labs ;) sire hadn’t produced any previously bitch a normal yellow colour so the usual mix rather expected hence the surprise.
 
ester said:
Well because none of us knew about them existing,I’ve never read a book on labs ;) sire hadn’t produced any previously bitch a normal yellow colour so the usual mix rather expected hence the surprise.
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I was being pedantic, Ms Normally Pedantic Self. :p. Pups were a surprise, not surprised. I thought you'd spot that Ester, you have disappointed me.:p:cool::D
 
I’ve very little experience of Labs but live on a grouse moor so see plenty working. Blacks were definitely in the majority for many years but yellow (especially the fox red types) do seem to be gaining in popularity here at least.
As for chocolates, I always believed they were thought to be less worky and intelligent than the other colours. My friend sourced and trained this boy though and said his work ethic was phenomenal ?

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...and-1000-of-cannabis-within-days-of-starting/
 
Up until Willow we had only ever had black labs or golden retrievers we went to buy a black or brown one and came home with a yellow one. She has been wonderful easy to train, sensible, never chewed anything not hers, isnt greedy doesnt steal food leaves food when she has had enough and is asleep on my feet on the sofa so a great companion dog, She is working bred but is small and chunky
 
My friends have a working fox red Lab, he had seen them working up in Scotland and put his name down for one, had to wait a couple of years and they were bred by a Laird.

He is an outstanding worker and their trainer who knows a thing or two reckons he would trial easily as he learns so quickly and is so switched on and focused. He really is the most beautiful looking dog but he is so nervous, its hard to believe he isnt gun-shy but obviously he isnt, my friend to demonstrate how nervous he was started to pick things out the laundry basket giving it a shake first and the dog looked like it was about to be beaten to death and he was on the other side of the room too.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Ok, between the reminder that a company charges money to send people some words on some fancy paper with no DNA proof required, to the fact that people really do buy dogs to breed soley for colour, my head is rapidly advancing at speed towards my desk ;)
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Agree. Good luck if they don’t want chocolate pups!
 
'Chocolate' Labs did exist years ago, they were known as 'liver' (which sounds more appropriate to me for a working breed) at the time but seem to have become quite rare until about 30 or so years ago, when they became more common again. I assume but don't know as I haven't done the research that they were from one genetic strain. I am fairly sure that they have been interbred for colour rather than health. I know one person who had 2 apparently unrelated 'choc' bitches who fought to the point that she had to keep them separated - unheard of for Labs ime.

'Chocolate' is just a marketing ploy, imo, as is 'fox-red' - they are yellow!
 
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