Colour experts! What colour IS my horse??

*Spyda*

*Spyda*

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Dam: dun Connemara pony (October Gold)
Sire: bay TB (Tito Go First)

He was born very pale with blue eyes. His eyes are now amber. His mane/tail is very pale cream. His body in summer is as shown in photos. He has browny-dark grey colouring up between his hind legs (most clearly shown in first photo). He has black skin around his eyes and muzzle but pink areas of skin on his body. I had him freezemarked in the saddle area today and we were surprised to find pink skin when we clipped him in preparation. Bizarre discovery.

He has lots of ermin spots which are brown, as is the dappled mottling up his legs and quarter area. In summer he has lots of dark spots across his body. Presumably Bend-or spots, but there are lots of them. More than I've seen before on any chestnut or palomino.

On the underside of his tail is the only black on him; a streak of black tail hair about 2 inches wide.

Mainly left scratching my head about the pink skin on his body (well, under the saddle patch at the very least) whilst he has black skin around his eyes and muzzle? He's only 2 and I've not yet bathed or clipped him to more clearly see the exact parameters of his skin tones.

So, genetically, what colour is he? Coloured? A badly coloured Palomino? Champagne? Smokey?

Would like to have him colour tested but what tests would be approriate to test for?

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I am by no means an expert when it comes to colour, for me, black and white is Piebald! I am clearly showing my age. To me he is Palamino - and beautiful.
 
he isn't any sort of grey with that parentage!

I would say palo poss with smokey.

I think it is hard to say about the white patches/pink skin without knowing quite how large or extensive they are or photos of parents (google doesn't help with that!)
 
This is his dam's page: http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/page3.html
She's October Gold (Nell) and there are photos of her offspring to date.

Sire: http://www.pedigreequery.com/tito+gofirst
Tito Gofirst is a dark bay TB stallion who is used as a teaser stallion at a stud. Not sure which though. Would love to find photos of him but can't seem to locate any, despite looking online for details about him.

Genetically Raffy definitely isn't a standard golden palomino (creme gene on chestnut); and he certainly wouldn't pass a British Palomino Society inspection for showing. I'm just curious what colour genetics are at work here. Odd that he was born very pale with blue eyes, and has the brown ermins and smokey dappling between his hind legs and across his bottom in summer. I had assumed apart from his socks and blaze, he was dark skinned. It was quite a surprise to clip his saddle area and find pink! It'll be interesting to wash him when he has his fine summer coat and see if we can determine where the black and pink skin areas are on him. But I'd have thought it impossible for him to have a dark skinned head and then pink areas of skin on his upper body like he has. @mystified!




ester said:
he isn't any sort of grey with that parentage!

I would say palo poss with smokey.

I think it is hard to say about the white patches/pink skin without knowing quite how large or extensive they are or photos of parents (google doesn't help with that!)
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I'd say palomino and very nice he is too. Maybe he is actually an albino dun [if there is such a thing]. You may have a unique horse !
 
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Years ago I knew a mare described as cremello, who was cream all over with pink skin and I think she had pale eyes too, unless I am confusing her with another.
 
Firefly9410 said:
Years ago I knew a mare described as cremello, who was cream all over with pink skin and I think she had pale eyes too, unless I am confusing her with another.
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I thought cremello at first but the OPs horse cannot be cremello with those parents. Also the dam is not dun but buckskin to produce palomino. Though I understand that being a Connemara they are known as duns, it's not genetically correct.
 
FairyLights said:
I'd say palomino and very nice he is too. Maybe he is actually an albino dun [if there is such a thing]. You may have a unique horse !
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There is but we are talking buckskin (cream) not dun gene here (you also get dunalinos).

So the white markings must come from the sire's side, sabino or splash? AFAIK palominos are often born with pale/blue eyes that darken over time so I wouldn't read too much into that.
 
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So here's the same horse this year just moulting into his summer coat.

Not the greatest colour on this photo as it makes the chocolate brown dapples and leg markings look dark gray or black, but these are definitely brown.

This is a link to his dam's info and previous foals (October Gold):
http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/page3.html

And to his sire's pedigree and ancestor colours:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tito+gofirst

Raffy needs to have his BCPS passport updated to the adult version, and where is asks for adult confirmation of colour, do I still put palomino?
 
It is wrong to call any horse with a pale mane and tail 'palomino'. A palomino is a chestnut horse with one copy of Cream, where as the Silver (AKA Silver Dapple) gene only alters black based horses, so a horse that is chestnut based with silver and cream will just look palomino, but will be a silver carrier. I guess that what you are thinking of as a 'silver palomino' is actually a black based horse with a Silver gene, so completely different genetically. Silver Dapples are beautiful though. :)
 
A colour update at rising 5! I think it's safe to say he's ended up a sooty palomino. Are their any genetic colour tests to decide that for certain? What tests would you need and what results would you be looking for?

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I think it's safe to say he is red based (no black ear tips) with cream. You can get him tested for cream to make certain. If he has any mottled skin then I would also test for champagne. Silver is another posssibility but doubtful.
 
*Spyda* said:
A colour update at rising 5! I think it's safe to say he's ended up a sooty palomino. Are their any genetic colour tests to decide that for certain? What tests would you need and what results would you be looking for?

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Pretty boy he's grown into!
Well you can test for the base coat colour, and you can test for cream. I'm not sure if there is a test relating to sooty....?
 
DabDab said:
Pretty boy he's grown into!
Well you can test for the base coat colour, and you can test for cream. I'm not sure if there is a test relating to sooty....?
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No, apparently there isn't at present. Have either parent turned grey, OP? It's just that his mane which started off white is becoming pigmented and this often happens at the start of the greying process. So if you're not sure on the parents, I would test for grey too as dam had a grey parent and often they are registered as dun before they grey, so dam may be grey.
 
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