Colour genetics?

Bossdog

Bossdog

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Hello

I ahven't posted here for a very long time and i have a question I just know someone here will know!!

Blue Circle Boy has always been my dream horse, I think he is just stunning. So I was wondering how you would breed a yellow dun like him. I've read conflicting articles, I understand that a cremello on a bay could theoretically produce a dun but then someone else said that isn't a true dun and is just a dilution.

So how do you breed a dun? Or does anyone know a stud that can breed them?? Now don't think that I will only have a dun horse, a good horse in never a bad colour but I would so love one!! They all seem to be under 15hh and i definatly need something bigger and something I can compete in dressage on.

Thanks guys

LOve Jules xx
 
http://www.treliverstud.co.uk/coat_colour_genetics.htm

Look here.
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Tara Coppins at Taraco Stud specialises in breeding Welsh ponies in rare colours - palomino, dun, cremello, cream etc and knows a lot about the genetics. There is a website which I am sure you will find on Google; sorry, I don't have the precise address to hand.
 
But to save you looking it up:

creme gene: cremello (homozygous), palomino (dilute chestnut), buckskin (dilute bay), smoky black (dilute black)

dun gene: dun (homozygous - so it breeds true), red dun (dun-dilute chestnut), mouse dun (dun-dilute bay), blue dun (dun-dilute black)

buckskin does not = dun, but a great many people think it does, which leads to some confusion

and horses have 11 different colour loci, so may theoretically, carry chestnut, black, bay, dun, creme, grey, tobiano, appaloosa, sabino and splashed white - but because they carry grey, which dilutes everything to white, they'll end up grey...

so to answer the question, the way to get a dun, is to breed from a homozygous dun, or, failing that, to breed two duns together and cross your fingers and hope for the best

the way to get a buckskin, which would look pretty much the same, is to cross a cremello with a bay (and hope not to get either palomino or smoky black, either of which is possible) or to cross two creme dilutes and cross fingers and hope to get neither a cremello nor a solid colour.


make sense?

E
 
[ QUOTE ]
We have a dun which has the same colouring as Blue Circle Boy and she was the result of a bay mare x palomino stallion

[/ QUOTE ]

So, genetically speaking, she's actually a buckskin. They look fairly similar, the difference is in whether the dilution of the colour is longitudinal or horizontal along or across the diameter of the hairs in the dilute fraction
 
Blimey I would know whether to argue or agree with you because I dont really understand what you mean. I must admit I find colour genetics fascinating so would love to know more - I would be really grateful if you could explain further.
 
Um...

there are 11 different gene-pairs for colour in the horse and ALL of them modify the dispersal of either eumelanin or phytomelanin within the hair - these are coloured granules that give either a reddish colour or black.

The simple ones code for base colour: chestnut, brown, black
Bay is a separate gene that confines the colour on a black horse to the points - so a bay horse is a black horse with a gene that means the black only shows up on its legs, mane and tail.

the so called 'dilute' genes are creme, giving cremello, palomino, buckskin and smoky black. Cremellos is the homozygous form, the others are heterozygous. Buckskin is a bay horse with a creme gene which makes the colour granules shift to one side of the hair (or one end, I can't remember and haven't time to look it up, sorry)

DUN is another 'dilute' gene which shifts the colour granules the other way - so either to the end of the hair or to one side. I THINK dun is the end-to-end variety and creme is the side-to-side one.

So your horse has a palomino and a bay parent. From the palomino, it got one creme gene, from the bay, you got bay, so the result was dilute bay, which is buckskin

does that help?

E
 
Wow thanks for that - I think I probably need to invest in a book so I can study this in more detail. You wouldnt be able to recommend one which might explain things but in a way the ordinary person would understand.

Also where do you get your knowledge from - have you studied all of this? I am soo impressed!
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Horse Colour Explained by Jeanette Gower is THE essential, clear, factual book on horse colour with plenty of pictures.

good luck

E
 
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