Colour question!

Montyforever

Montyforever

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Can a dun get darker every year (as in a grey gets lighter every moult)

Only ask as when i first got Honey she was a dark dun, and now shes practicly bay!!!
 
If you're talking about a true dun, as opposed to a buckskin, then I'd have to say no. I have a number of duns - blacks, bays, chestnuts - and not one of them changes colour from year to year once they're in their adult coats. There is a difference between winter & summer coats, as with all colours, but each year, the coat will be the same as the year before.

What breed is your horse - is this a true dun we're talking about? Any pics?
 
Shes a welsh x (possibly trotter, hackney, thoroughbred?! I have no idea :p)

She was this goldeny colour 2 years ago, same time of year and then this colour now ..

Sorry its a bad photo, only one i can find of her ..
Honey 2 years ago with black legs, mane and tail and a dark "gold" colour ..
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Honey now looking like a normal bay! ..

Photo0810.jpg





Not a massive change, and she always goes darker in the winter, but this summer she hasnt gone "goldeny" but stayed very dark!
 
Welsh don't/very rarely (I think there are a few in the US) carry dun and neither to TB or hackney. Out of all the british breeds I think it is only the highland who regularly carry dun so she may well be buckskin. I didn't see a clear dorsal stripe so buckskin is more likely. All horses can vary in their coat colour, have you changed what you are feeding her recently?
 
No dorsal stripe that I can see?

I'm afraid I don't think she is a dun at all! There is a possibility of being a buckskin, but I'm not totally convinced of that either - but I'm not a buckskin expert, I mostly 'do' duns. If I'd seen her photos without knowing her colour, I would probably have thought she was bay - even from the first pic. A variation on bay possibly, given the paler bits around her eyes. I'm sure others on the site with more general experience will have some suggestions of what she is.

lillith said:
Welsh don't/very rarely (I think there are a few in the US) carry dun and neither to TB or hackney. Out of all the british breeds I think it is only the highland who regularly carry dun so she may well be buckskin.
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Shetlands also carry dun. Dun is not believed to exist in any of the other native breeds - connies, welsh, NFs - all seem to be buckskins. Of the couple of rare examples of what appear to be true dun registered in the breed that I have seen, I believe that parentage has become mixed along the way, rather than dun breeding true - that or they are just very convincing looking false duns (buckskins).
 
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varkie said:
No dorsal stripe that I can see?

I'm afraid I don't think she is a dun at all! There is a possibility of being a buckskin, but I'm not totally convinced of that either - but I'm not a buckskin expert, I mostly 'do' duns. If I'd seen her photos without knowing her colour, I would probably have thought she was bay - even from the first pic. A variation on bay possibly, given the paler bits around her eyes. I'm sure others on the site with more general experience will have some suggestions of what she is.


Shetlands also carry dun. Dun is not believed to exist in any of the other native breeds - connies, welsh, NFs - all seem to be buckskins. Of the couple of rare examples of what appear to be true dun registered in the breed that I have seen, I believe that parentage has become mixed along the way, rather than dun breeding true - that or they are just very convincing looking false duns (buckskins).
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Yeah i always refer to her as a bay, but shes reg dun i think :o
And i would have called her dun then, bay in winter but def bay now, just a shame shes lost her lovely gold colour :(
 
Shetlands also carry dun. Dun is not believed to exist in any of the other native breeds - connies, welsh, NFs - all seem to be buckskins. Of the couple of rare examples of what appear to be true dun registered in the breed that I have seen, I believe that parentage has become mixed along the way, rather than dun breeding true - that or they are just very convincing looking false duns (buckskins).[/QUOTE]

This is really interesting - Many years ago I had a dun who was a TB/Connemara and she had a dorsal stripe, zebra stripes on her legs which continued almost to her withers. Her ears looked like she'd had them dipped in paint and had a black mane and tail. Do you think she might have been mixed with something else? She was a real TB to look at - very fine and dainty and a real looker. She was almost palomino pale in the winter and in the summer was a really rich golden dun - she was stunning just very scatty!

Sorry not wanting to hijack this post...
 
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Buckskins can also have dorsal stripes, and even zebra stripes. Hard to comment without seeing pictures. If truly a TB/Connie, I'd guess she was buckskin - given there isn't believed to be dun in those breeds!
 
varkie said:
Buckskins can also have dorsal stripes, and even zebra stripes. Hard to comment without seeing pictures. If truly a TB/Connie, I'd guess she was buckskin - given there isn't believed to be dun in those breeds!
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I will dig a photo out of her - will probably have to scan it to email as I don't know how to upload on here :o !! I had an AQH who was a buckskin and Kelly (horse) certainly looked different to him. I suppose unless you go into the genetics it's very hard to tell the difference between a dun and a buckskin? I always thought that a buckskin didn't have a dorsal stripe and duns did - stand corrected!!!
 
Normally, if I see a pic, most of the time, I can make an educated guess as to whether a horse is a buckskin or a dun - and knowing the breeding can often confirm it. There is a difference in the coat colours a bit - the buckskins tend to have a slightly creamy texture to their coats, which the duns lack. Plus, buckskins only come in the kind of caramelly colour, whereas duns come in all shades - blacks, bays, chestnuts, etc. I currently have 11 duns (4 black duns, 2 bay duns, the rest are chestnut duns), and 1 buckskin - if you want to see them to get an idea of the range of colours, they're on my website - www.varkiesstud.co.uk - also pics of past duns I've owned on there.

With dorsal stripes, the rule is that a dun MUST have a dorsal stripe - a buckskin MIGHT have a dorsal stripe. So having a dorsal stripe doesn't make a horse dun, but if there's no dorsal stripe, then it's definitely not a dun.

It's also worth bearing in mind that other genes can come into play, which can make it even more confusing to work out a colour - pangere, sooty, etc. For example, I believe my buckskin mare carries sooty, and my bay dun filly carries pangere which I believe she inheirited from her sire whom I've since sold. It all makes it rather fun to work out!
 
Cool! I will have a look at your website in a few mins. I bought the splodge horse in my sig as a weanling Dec 2008 and she's a red dun tobiano so I've taken a lot of interest in horse colours since owning her. It's so fascinating. I will try and remember to bring some photo's of the zebra marked dun into work tomorrow and will scan them to you - if you don't mind!
 
No definately not dun as dun does not hide on a base colour horse, you would see the signs. For my money not buckskin either as the cream gene on red hair turns it yellow and there is plenty of red hairs! Buckskin can only really hide on a black horse or something like a brown or black and tan where most of the horse is black.

Could be a bay with sooty if that does exist or a black and tan as there is black across the back and it's not all over red. But there is a lot more research to be done on this yet! I would put it down to an unusal form of Bay/Brown
 
could it be that 2 years ago her coat had been bleached blonde by the sun and not now? My bay/chestnut (jury still out on that one too!) cobX always gets a golden bloom on her coat when we have a good summer.
 
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