Coloured stallion question????

[amage]

Thinking of covering my mare next year and like the idea of using Utah Van Erpekom. so was just wondering what the odd's are of getting a coloured baby...My mare is grey, her sire Amaretto I is grey. can't find out what colour her dam Ninka is but her dam and sire were bay so i'm assuming she must have been bay too. so anybody any ideas???

 

[S_N]

As UVE is not homozygous for colour, then you'd stand a 50% chance of a coloured foal from him. Though not sure what her being grey throws into the mix...... I would have thought that with a strong likelihood of one of your mare's parents being bay, not grey, your chances of a coloured may be enhanced slightly - what I mean is, had both of her parents been grey, I think you'd have a higher chance of grey. I really hope that ramble makes some sense?

 

[snurse]

Can't be a lot of help here, but our resident stallion is coloured. Have seen his offspring over two years (12 in all) from all sorts of mares, though not a grey. He throws about 50% coloured.

 

[MillionDollar]

Have a go with this-

http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp?Error=1

 

[S_N]

Huh - that's fab C!! B has a 65.63% of a Bay Tobiano, a 21.88% of a Black Tobiano and a 12.50% of a Chestnut Tobiano.

 

[MillionDollar]

I think Ringo can only sire black or bay tobianos though can't he?! I haven't seen any chestnut tobianos by him and it says on his page he can only produce bay and white or black and whoite progeny.

So B's will be-
75% bay tobiano
25% black tobiano

 

[kateD]

If your intrested in a coloured stallion with showjumping bloodlines hav a look at Tomtom (whats colour) on www.stallionsonline.co.uk, hes homozygous and looks a nice type.

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Ringo can only sire black or bay tobianos though can't he?! I haven't seen any chestnut tobianos by him and it says on his page he can only produce bay and white or black and whoite progeny.

So B's will be-
75% bay tobiano
25% black tobiano

[/ QUOTE ]

I know!! That is what I thought tbh, but that's what the results said............

 

[MillionDollar]

Ahhh, when you get to the 2nd bit you have to tick the Homozygous Black (EE) under the Red Factor (Extention) on the sires side

 

[pocomoto]

Since UVE has produced a chestnut foal and he himself is clearly a bay you know most of his base colour i.e. he carries chestnut or he could not have produced one, so his genes are Ee (Black carrying red) A? (Bay /brown and unknown) He must have one A as his black basecoat E has been modified to bay, which is what the presence of A does. A doesn’t have a dramatic effect on a red coat though in some circles it is thought to have some effect on coat shade of chestnuts. Cant see any black foals so would guess he is AA.

You would need to get your mare tested as she too could be a chestnut (e) or at least a carrier of e under the grey, as two bays can produce a Chestnut, it took hundreds of years to get rid of chestnut from the Cleveland bay as it lurks until it finds another e to play with! ( Price is £16 per test and you would need 2 tests.)

So without being certain of your mare it’s pointless giving percentages, basically the base could be bay/brown or chestnut, unlikely to be black depending on your mare and UVE‘s hidden A (Agouti status) which we can‘t be sure of.

What you can be certain of is that there is a 50% chance it will be some degree of Tobiano.

Plus you have a separate 50% chance that the offspring will be grey as if your mares mother and father were not grey then they will not have the gene.

If you are unlucky you will get a grey non Tobiano. Greys are not a good place to start if colour is your goal, since the grey is dominant over all colours.

 

[Ciss]

UVE is not homozygous and never claimed to be so your chances of getting a coloured foal are 50% at maximum and if the mare has two grey parents then you could well end up with a grey whatever colour stallion you choose anyway.

When choosing a coloured stallion I always recommend that people assess him as though he was a solid coloured horse and make their decision based on that. Of you are planning to breed a competition horse, only if he has correct cconformation (especialy limbs), a good sports pedigree, a super temperament and -- if he is mature enough -- a proven record in competition should you consider him as otherwise you are breeding *purely* for colour which is not really a very wise thing to do.

UVE is a correct sound horse (his lay off a couple of years ago was due to a certain young professional rider pushing him in classes at Olympia when he was not ready) and he is now back with JW and winning at top level internationally, as his pedigree indicates he should. Using those criteria IMHO he is probably the best coloured competition stallion in the country today (personally I prefer him to O'Combo de L'eau as I feel he has a little more modern sports horse type about him) but it depends on your particular preferences as to whether a less correct, less well performing but homzygous stallion is what you need.

 

[kateD]

if your intrested in a homozygous stallion hav a look at Tomtom(whats colour) www.stallionsonline.co.uk, he looks like a nice sort and is one of the best bred homozygous stallions Ive seen.

 

[ColouredFan]

As far as I understand it as the stallion is not Homozygous he has a 50% chance of having a coloured foal. Other than that you cant predict further if you dont know the colour of the mares parents. You could get a grey or a Blue and white if the foal get the sires tobiano coat pattern and the grey gene from your mare. plus the foal could br grey or whatever colour you mares parents carry. Grey isnt the best colour to use if you want a coloured foal. But i love UVE too!

 

[pocomoto]

[ QUOTE ]

Plus you have a separate 50% chance that the offspring will be grey as if your mares mother and father were not grey then they will not have the gene.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should have read that one again DOH If your mares mother was not grey then your mare would only have one grey gene from her father hence the 50/50 chance of grey. If the mother was grey but only carrying 1 grey gene the percentage likelyhood of grey rises to 75%, if however one of the parents had two grey genes then it's 100%.

 

[blueberry]

Someone told me to you have a better chance of producing a coloured from a grey dam if you use a piebald. We put our mare who is grey to a skewbald and her foal was chestnut! We were advised too late. Apparently its difficult to get a coloured from out of a grey mare-i am not an expert so i may be wrong.

 

[volatis]

Thats rubbish. well as far as I understand it but maybe one of the experts will say otherwise.
The grey solid coloured mare has no influence on whetehr the foal gets the tobiano gene from the sire. The sire will either pass it on or he wont 50/50. (There is a theory totally unproved that in warmbloods the tobiano gene is linked to the black gene somehow as there are very few chestnut tobiano warmbloods - however chestnuts are not popular in warmblood breeding dispite donnerhall/weltmeyer etc etc and black is - hence more black and white than red and whites - its a popularity thing)
Anyway in blueberry's case, there was only a 50% chance of tobiano colour from the sire, and you got the 50% chance of solid in your foal. If the mare was going to add her grey gene to the mix was a totally seperate event, and just like the stallion didnt pass his tobiano gene, nor did the grey mare pass her grey gene on.

I have a grey mare. She has had two foals by a bay tobiano stallion. Foal 1 was a bay tobiano but is greying out. foal 2 is a solid bay and will not grey out.

Amage assuming your mare doesn't carry chestnut, you have a 25% of a bay tobiano, 25% chance of a solid bay, 25% chance of a bay tobiano that will grey out and 25% chance of a bay that will grey out. Thats it it's simpliest form, obviously there might be a chance of black or chestnut but sounds slim based on what you have said.

 

[blueberry]

Thats rubbish-how rude!!

 

[htobago]

Oh blueberry I'm sure volatis didn't mean to be rude to you - she was just saying that you had been misinformed; she was criticising the person who told you that, not critising you!

 

[volatis]

Thank you htobago. I meant the old wives tale you had been told was rubbish, and then explained why. I wasn't being rude to you at all.

 

[Wishful]

In some ways, isn't it a bit true (difficulty of getting a coloured from a grey - depending on the speed of greying, you've only got a 25% chance of a "visible" tobiano, rather than a 50 % chance with a non grey mare?

That would make some sense wouldn't it - looking at end result rather than true genetics, anyway.

What it really comes down to for me, is far too much white for getting muddy!

 

[Amelia]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats rubbish-how rude!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Blueberry - I dont think for one moment that any rudeness was intended by volatis - just that you had been badly advised.

 

[blueberry]

I stand corrected, hypersensitive day im afraid

 

[Amelia]

LOL... we all have days like that

 

[htobago]

Don't worry blueberry - happens to us all!

I am having a bad case of the stupid typos today - managed to spell the word 'criticizing' in two completely different ways in my last post, both of them incorrect!